Cell Group System
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You got me right.Originally posted by fandango:if the purpose of a cell group is to facilitate bible study and a fellowship to encourage christians in their daily walk, i do not see the reason why the group leader is stressed and pressured just because his/her group only have 4-5 members. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" Matt 18:20
otherwise, if the cell group is made for the purpose of expanding the church population through activities other than bible study (games, movie going, picnic, night safari, zoo tour, etc), ofcourse the leader will be pressured to get more people into the cell group.
Cell CHURCH's main purpose is Growth and multiply.
L.Khong did state and used Peter Wagner's call growth theory to explain. As far as i can remember.
'If a Cell Group stays stagnant for 6 months, it is considered a dead cell, it should collapse and send the members to different Cell groups which are growing.' (someone care to correct on the exact period of time)
I think it is a honest approach since the cell is not moving, might as well eat humble pie and disperse them to a healthy cell.
Then again, it reaps pressure and stress. Not only to conduct proper discipleship but also have to worry about tangible growth.
I suppose it works hand in hand.
Cheers -
The stupid leader telling the members what to do and then cannot do certain things...i finally cannot tolerate it and left the church...its not for me anyway....Originally posted by M©+square:huh?
I understand you're 15 yr old?
So have you experienced any awkward situation in Cell Group?
so when im thinking of it now i sort of realise that the leader have corrupted the members to do his bidding
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This is a perfect example of how pressure from church Leaders come about.Originally posted by M©+square:'If a Cell Group stays stagnant for 6 months, it is considered a dead cell, it should collapse and send the members to different Cell groups which are growing.' (someone care to correct on the exact period of time)
Pressure for growth in any ways that the cell group leaders can think off. Pressure to show others that "my cell is not a dead cell".
Isn't this the same pressure as "You can choose not to give your offering. It's ok you know, it's really ok, no problems at all.........but God knows. So it's ok not to give, its really ok." -
can you be more specific?Originally posted by ceecookie:The stupid leader telling the members what to do and then cannot do certain things...i finally cannot tolerate it and left the church...its not for me anyway....
so when im thinking of it now i sort of realise that the leader have corrupted the members to do his bidding
Because having to deal with a younger youth like your age. He needs to still set certain guidelines to prevent you guys from being heavily corrupted.
Adolescent of 15-18 are most vulnerable in their beliefs and stand in motives and course of action. -
Originally posted by fandango:This is a perfect example of how pressure from church Leaders come about.
Pressure for growth in any ways that the cell group leaders can think off. Pressure to show others that "my cell is not a dead cell".
Isn't this the same pressure as "You can choose not to give you offering. It's ok you know, it's really ok, no problems at all.........but God knows. So it's ok not to give, its really ok."
that's why we say, different churches cater to different individuals. -
putting it in another way...when i was in the group i felt that i was being controlled by the leader and i must report to the leader abt everything...its like being in a jail or being restricted....Originally posted by M©+square:can you be more specific?
Because having to deal with a younger youth like your age. He needs to still set certain guidelines to prevent you guys from being heavily corrupted.
Adolescent of 15-18 are most vulnerable in their beliefs and stand in motives and course of action. -
The course of action is simple.Originally posted by ceecookie:putting it in another way...when i was in the group i felt that i was being controlled by the leader and i must report to the leader abt everything...its like being in a jail or being restricted....
Go to another church or change to another group.
One lousy leader doesn't mean Poor leadership from the church, but of cos the Leadership has to be blame for the selection of CGleaders in this case.
Cheers -
I remember recently i was sitting at the back of the congregation.
During sermon, there were youths sitting infront nudging their friends by their side, some other youths smsing or playing with their handphone.
Some giggle and whispering to one another.
The sermon ends, everyone seated packing up their bags and wait for the service leader to announce the serivce to offically end.
So there's this closing song which the Worship commented. 'Those who wants to seek after God today and today is the day you decide that you want to get right with God, i invite you to stand up.'
What i see: The youths were reluctantly standing up one by one. There are youths who are seated looking around left and right at their friends and decided to stand up also.
Only left with my two close friend and me.
Those seated at the back turned and looked at us.
Then the worship leader took another huge step of Faith!
'Those who wants to be prayed for, come to the altar now'
I see friends pulling another(by the sleeves) and the next thing you see is a whole string of people going to the altar.
The unwilling became willing! Expected, the altar was filled with people.
I concluded, the power of peers and pressure at times can actually allow 'Function of a ministry' and at many times, supersede the actual works of the spirit! Amazing!!! -
very common. same goes for "receiving the gift of tongues"Originally posted by M©+square:I remember recently i was sitting at the back of the congregation.
During sermon, there were youths sitting infront nudging their friends by their side, some other youths smsing or playing with their handphone.
Some giggle and whispering to one another.
The sermon ends, everyone seated packing up their bags and wait for the service leader to announce the serivce to offically end.
So there's this closing song which the Worship commented. 'Those who wants to seek after God today and today is the day you decide that you want to get right with God, i invite you to stand up.'
What i see: The youths were reluctantly standing up one by one. There are youths who are seated looking around left and right at their friends and decided to stand up also.
Only left with my two close friend and me.
Those seated at the back turned and looked at us.
Then the worship leader took another huge step of Faith!
'Those who wants to be prayed for, come to the altar now' I see friends pulling another(by the sleeves) and the next thing you see is a whole string of people going to the altar.
The unwilling became willing! Expected, the altar was filled with people. I concluded, the power of peers and pressure at times can actually allow 'Function of a ministry' and at many times, supersede the actual works of the spirit! Amazing!!! -
church is not suited of rme anyway...i prefer computer and such...Originally posted by M©+square:The course of action is simple.
Go to another church or change to another group.
One lousy leader doesn't mean Poor leadership from the church, but of cos the Leadership has to be blame for the selection of CGleaders in this case.
Cheers
and oh the sermons...i cant sit still and listen for an hour -
Sad case ain't it?Originally posted by fandango:very common. same goes for "receiving the gift of tongues"
Cheapened... -
Is there really a need for a cell group to grow larger and larger?
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the notions of Cell group(if I don't remember wrongly) according to Dr Ralph Neighbour is that like the cells in our body, it is to grow, expand and split (the word used was mulitiply), thus when a certain cell group grows bigger, it is split up to form new smaller cells as such cell groups are to be kept 'small and cosy'.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Is there really a need for a cell group to grow larger and larger? -
Yes, tool of the devil is a bit too strong, sorry, I retract.Originally posted by Chin Eng:My church started the CG ministry basing on FCBC's philosophies and books of Laurence Khong and Ralph Neighbour. In itself it is not wrong to base one's programme on a successful model. The problem happens when the model is seen to be God-ordained - ie cast-in-stone, unchangeable. I have major issues with the writers insisted on a 100% copy of the structure.
Success rates? MY OPINION ONLY: Well depending on how your look at it, you will get different interpretation. As with any given programme, there will be a level of success till a stagnation point. The stagnation point can be a physical one (ie church building cannot sustain the growth), or spiritual one (ie need a change in the "spiritual diet"). Either way, the buck stops there: ie the church stops growing. I see my the population of both the congregation remaining relatively the same over the years. People do come and go, but the potential is limited. The only way to do a physical growth is to embark on a different approach (ie megachurch style).
Back to my church's CG - the fact that there are CGs does not translate to a more caring church. I am actually see more b-itching (between pastor, some church members, leadership, etc) in the charismatic service than the traditional service. Here's not to say the traditional service is extremely holy - just a little more laid back. It is strange too, that I see some movement from charismatic to traditional recently, plus the trad svc has a fairly strong number of young people.
Tool of the devil??? A little too strong for me, ha ha.
CG emphasizes on leadership, nothing wrong. then those who are supposed to be leaders went through training sessions and on completion, they are like "all can do and know all" . Problem no. 1.
CG is often implemented as a completely new system, so old system taken off immediately, those holding on to the old system got hurt, no properly link, or hand over, misunderstanding and other problem follows. Problem no. 2.
CG emphasizes on result, competitions among leaders follows. Difficult members are asked to join other groups, all ways and means are taken to increase no. Caring only to those who come once a while, those who come regularly neglected (cause they are there so no need to care). Problem no. 3.
Members tend to depend solely on CG and neglected Sundays Schools, corporate prayers, ....other forms of "spiritual diets". Problem no. 4.
Now I see some churches using "purpose driven life" as The must do course for spiritual and church growth. Problem coming again.
I really don't want to appear whining, but it does seem that that too much emphasis is on the way to growth and these ways do not include love and caring as a must. At the end of the days, all these become part of church "activities" only. Am I too negative??
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Originally posted by M©+square: I see friends pulling another(by the sleeves) and the next thing you see is a whole string of people going to the altar.
The unwilling became willing! Expected, the altar was filled with people. I concluded, the power of peers and pressure at times can actually allow 'Function of a ministry' and at many times, supersede the actual works of the spirit! Amazing!!! I saw that many many times.
I brought a friend to an evangelical rally and after the meeting a councellor came and spoke to him. Surprised at how quick he made the decision, I asked if he was really touched. He said if he was not quick enough he would have no chance of tasting the free refreshment. I had a good laugh.
It is sad how people today think programs and activities can convert a person to christainity. -
going a bit off topic here .
Can i ask something.
As i understand it the ability to speak in tongues is a a spiritual gift from god.
i just wanna ask how do you know the ppl are really speaking in tongues ? Not just making up gibberish no offence here to those who do speak in tongues
But can those who do speak it communicate with each other in tongues ? -
You can read up this thread, hopefully you get your answer. If not you can post again?Originally posted by zanza:going a bit off topic here .
Can i ask something.
As i understand it the ability to speak in tongues is a a spiritual gift from god.
i just wanna ask how do you know the ppl are really speaking in tongues ? Not just making up gibberish no offence here to those who do speak in tongues
But can those who do speak it communicate with each other in tongues ?
Click here http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=168010 -
It's sad to see Christianity being watered down to a state where they no longer need for Spirit of God to function in a ministry or Church. All prayers and worship becomes routine and yet people still goes to church! HaaOriginally posted by sgdiehard: I saw that many many times.
I brought a friend to an evangelical rally and after the meeting a councellor came and spoke to him. Surprised at how quick he made the decision, I asked if he was really touched. He said if he was not quick enough he would have no chance of tasting the free refreshment. I had a good laugh.
It is sad how people today think programs and activities can convert a person to christainity.
Very sad.
Like A.W Tozer book title mentioned - Whatever happened to Worship?
Cheers -
Do you think that there is too much emphasis on evangelism that worship is neglected?Originally posted by M©+square:It's sad to see Christianity being watered down to a state where they no longer need for Spirit of God to function in a ministry or Church. All prayers and worship becomes routine and yet people still goes to church! Haa
Very sad.
Like A.W Tozer book title mentioned - Whatever happened to Worship?
Cheers -
I believe nowadays we have "fast food christianity".....Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Do you think that there is too much emphasis on evangelism that worship is neglected? -
Interesting term.Originally posted by laoda99:I believe nowadays we have "fast food christianity".....
And it makes you full but does it really give you the energy for a lifetime?
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Dun think so...from the way they are "recruiting"....I believe they won't be able to last long......Originally posted by LazerLordz:Interesting term.
And it makes you full but does it really give you the energy for a lifetime?
Only in adversity, people will need Christ and their faith will turn stronger and able to last. Fast food christianity won't stand a chance. (MacChrist?) -
Everything's too commodified and made into bite-sized nuggets.Fancy ads and slick words are no match for the real deal.Originally posted by laoda99:Dun think so...from the way they are "recruiting"....I believe they won't be able to last long......
Only in adversity, people will need Christ and their faith will turn stronger and able to last. Fast food christianity won't stand a chance. (MacChrist?) -
So much for 'bread from heaven'...Originally posted by LazerLordz:Interesting term.
And it makes you full but does it really give you the energy for a lifetime? -
Worship is like having a complete meal, taking west cuisine you have from appetizer to entrée to dessert, in Chinese you have ten-course from soup to dessert, you get to taste the result of the complete culinary skills of the chef. You also get to feel the service of the waiters or waitresses, their smile, their attention to the minute details of your needs; and you get to enjoy the ambient of the restaurant, the music, the lighting, the noise (only in Chinese restaurantOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:Do you think that there is too much emphasis on evangelism that worship is neglected?
), the table settings, the fine china ware, even the table cloth.
Some of the evangelical techniques are like having a “fast food Christianity”, a very interesting term from laoda99. you queue, you order, you pay, you get your burger, open you mouth big big, with a few bites you swallow, and you are on your way. You fill your stomach, how does it taste? all hamburgers are the same anywhere in the world.
Worship includes evangelism, and involves a lot more than evangelism; evangelism is not worship. Christians who attend worship will know what is evangelism but those who only know evangelism will miss out on the full extent of the beauty, the love and blessings in the presence of God.
my view.