Signs of faith
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Actaully, there are two kinds of faith:
1) Natural faith and 2) Divine faith
natural faith --everybody has it. We hail a taxi cab and we board in trusting, having faith that the driver would take us to our destination. We are diagnosed with an ailment that entails surgery........we submit ourselves to the surgeon's skillful hand trusting that he will do well.
We take medications prescribed by the doctor believing and trusting in him that he means well and wants us to get well.
Divine faith-- on the other hand is a faith not found in unregenerated man. It is a gift from God. True faith means that we have seen our helplessness with regards to salvation and convicts us of our sin and makes us embrace what Christ has done.
True faith is just an enlightened eye. 1) it sees our helplessnes 2) it sees our depravity 3) it sees Christ as Savior. The reason why true faith endures to the end and keeps on seeing Christ [number 3] is because it keeps on seeing 1 and 2.
True faith says: "i will never let go of Christ because ever before me i see my helplessness with regards to salvation and the sin that is in me." -
Originally posted by M©+square:Then i have a tiny nitty question i hope you can ponder.
Have you wondered a nonbeliever - to be stricter, a non Christian who have never heard of Gospel or what Church teachings is like.
Faced with problems and somehow he just prayed(like Hannah in Samuel) to be delivered from those problems.
And all his problems were solved one by one almost immediately after his prayer.
But he's still a non believer
My observation? What created the need for him to trust in his prayer more than he trust himself? My bet is Divine prompting and intervention.
Question: Did he have faith or was it intellectual acceptance which led him to seek help from the spiritual realm.
Let me have a go at this...Originally posted by M©+square:Yes. But remember the case which i've presented to you?
He doesn't realize in his absolute inability to solve his problems.
He turns to prayer, not even God.
He wasn't converted and still is a 'free thinker'
So is faith present or not?
More importantly, have you gotten your answer on Faith?
Case,
This person is a non Christian who have never heard of Gospel or what Church teachings is like.
He turns to prayer, not even God.
He wasn't converted and still is a 'free thinker'
This means most likely this person do not know God, never heard of Christ, never heard of his teaching. as a 'free thinker', he most likely do not believe in any god as well (maybe I am wrong in this).
So, is Faith involved? maybe, though I don't think his faith is in Christ/God and thus not surprising he remain not converted and remain as a 'free thinker'.
I am not disputing that Christ/God is involed here, just that this person may not realised it.
(btw, coincidentally, this happened to me before, never heard of Gospel or what Church teachings is like till I was 14) -
Erm, I don't mean to disrespectful but where in Singapore can the gospel not reach you until that relatively advanced age?Originally posted by vince69:Let me have a go at this...
Case,
This person is a non Christian who have never heard of Gospel or what Church teachings is like.
He turns to prayer, not even God.
He wasn't converted and still is a 'free thinker'
This means most likely this person do not know God, never heard of Christ, never heard of his teaching. as a 'free thinker', he most likely do not believe in any god as well (maybe I am wrong in this).
So, is Faith involved? maybe, though I don't think his faith is in Christ/God and thus not surprising he remain not converted and remain as a 'free thinker'.
I am not disputing that Christ/God is involed here, just that this person may not realised it.
(btw, coincidentally, this happened to me before, never heard of Gospel or what Church teachings is like till I was 14)
EDIT:type wrongly -
If one must hear the Gospels to be saved then what about the people before Jesus' time?
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The classic answer I believe would be Hebrews 11. The OT hall of fame.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If one must hear the Gospels to be saved then what about the people before Jesus' time? -
All secrets belong to God! But i believe those that have not been given the chance to hear of the Gospel more so, would have God's grace.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If one must hear the Gospels to be saved then what about the people before Jesus' time? -
14yrs is consider relatively advanced age now, but not during early 80s.Originally posted by fallin:Erm, I don't mean to disrespectful but where in Singapore can the gospel not reach you until that relatively advanced age?
EDIT:type wrongly
now you can guess my age. -
Cornelius [Acts 10] was a man who have never heard of the gospel. yet he was a man who sought God. He knew [according to his limited knowledge] that God was a God of righteousness and he sought Him with all His heart by doing things that are righteous.
God responded by sending to him the apostle Peter to preach to him the gospel. He believed and got saved.
About how the Old testament people were saved.
They were saved through the same means by faith in Jesus.
2Ti 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
The 'Holy Scriptures' refered above by Paul was the Old Testament Scriptures for the new testament scriptures were still on the process of writing.
what does Paul say about the OT Scriptures? It will make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus -
They are under a different convenantOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:If one must hear the Gospels to be saved then what about the people before Jesus' time?
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Originally posted by Ironside:
Then what about those who know nuts about the OT Scriptures?
Cornelius [Acts 10] was a man who have never heard of the gospel. yet he was a man who sought God. He knew [according to his limited knowledge] that God was a God of righteousness and he sought Him with all His heart by doing things that are righteous.
God responded by sending to him the apostle Peter to preach to him the gospel. He believed and got saved.
About how the Old testament people were saved.
They were saved through the same means by faith in Jesus.
2Ti 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 [b]and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
The 'Holy Scriptures' refered above by Paul was the Old Testament Scriptures for the new testament scriptures were still on the process of writing.
what does Paul say about the OT Scriptures? It will make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus[/b] -
I believe just like Cornelius............if they sought God according to the little light they have............they will find Him...........God will somehow find a way to reach them. That is, if they really sought God.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Then what about those who know nuts about the OT Scriptures?
There are testimonies of missionaries going out on a mission for the aborigines [tribal primitive people] who know nothing about the Lord Jesus but have sought out God. They claim that they eagerly recieved the gospel when they first heard it....claiming that they knew something of a God like they preached long before.
if you are a muslim doing with all sincerity the things that are good in your religion........ sincerely and ignorantly believing that Allah is the one true God, God in time will respond by sending you the gospel that you will be saved and know the truth, just like in Cornelius' case. -
I still think it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven.... God is not petty..
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what makes you think so?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I still think it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven.... God is not petty.. -
IMHO, I think who ever acknowledge Christ as his only Lord and saviour will be saved!Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I still think it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven.... God is not petty.. -
Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I still think it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven.... God is not petty..
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Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith, hope, love the greatest of these is love. If you have all the faith but hath not love, what's the point?
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Heavens! It's you again!!Originally posted by Repented John:Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith, hope, love the greatest of these is love. If you have all the faith but hath not love, what's the point? -
Centuries before Christianity reached China, how were the people saved? Would have God damned those people before the Gospel could have reached them?Originally posted by OrneryBoy:what makes you think so? -
Eh sorry i dont want war just peace here ok? Paul did say all faith but no love is useless etc. 1 Cor 13.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Heavens! It's you again!! -
Originally posted by Repented John:Eh sorry i dont want war just peace here ok? Paul did say all faith but no love is useless etc. 1 Cor 13.
great reaction eh? -
Yeah I'm cool with that... peace...Originally posted by Repented John:Eh sorry i dont want war just peace here ok? Paul did say all faith but no love is useless etc. 1 Cor 13. -
No they were saved by their consciences or morals or ethics. It's in romans. I brought this up but ppl didnt understand what i was saying but that's all in the past. Pls forget what i said. Thanks & God bless.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Centuries before Christianity reached China, how were the people saved? Would have God damned those people before the Gospel could have reached them?
In revelations, many books were opened besides the book of life at the great white throne judgement. See for yourself in rev. But for those who have heard gospel, no chance unless God intervenes in some way or other. Anyway, we arent saved by good works so some ppl might be saved & they know it inside them but they never say. -
Non christians as in last time BC or now AD?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I still think it is possible for non-Christians to go to heaven.... God is not petty.. -
Hmmm...
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both.Originally posted by Repented John:Non christians as in last time BC or now AD?