Did the Scriptures say he did? No. In fact, the Scriptures say he could not speak/pray in tongues!Originally posted by breytonhartge:how do you know He didn't? He always went away to pray by Himself, so who's to say He did not pray in tongues?
Please also consider these verses:
John 14:12 NIV
12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14: 16 NIV
16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.
which verse? You forget that Jesus was before we were... He already has the Holy Spirit because Jesus, the Son, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are one... so Jesus would already have the Holy Spirit with Him, Jesus went to the Father to ask God to send the Holy Spirit to us, not for Him...Originally posted by macjoe:Did the Scriptures say he did? No. In fact, the Scriptures say he could not speak/pray in tongues!
Infering from your verses, Jesus Christ could not possibly speak/pray in tongues because He hasn't gone back to ask the Father for the Counselor, the Holy Spirit to come.
So does that make Jesus Christ a believer of poorer spirituality than those christians given with the Counselor?
Glad you got your gift you asked for, my take is that 5 minutes praying in tongues can accomplish the same as an hour praying in english or chinese or whatever other language we pray in... praying in tongues, our spirit communes directly with God's spirit... fast, effective and simple, sometimes when we just don't know how to pray or whatelse to pray... tongues can help in these situations...Originally posted by Chin Eng:My reason for saying that it is OVERrated is that almost every church is pushing this gift as the special one. Some churches even insist that every single member need to be equipped with it.
I really don't see the need to "speak mysteries and pray for things that we do not know about" - what's the purpose of the need to pray for things we don't know about, seeing that we already have ENOUGH in our hands to pray for things that we already know.
I do not see the necessity to seek this gift. I have asked for another gift and I believe God had given that gift to me.
Oops! I wouldn't have answered that way if i were you.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Glad you got your gift you asked for, my take is that 5 minutes praying in tongues can accomplish the same as an hour praying in english or chinese or whatever other language we pray in... praying in tongues, our spirit communes directly with God's spirit... fast, effective and simple, sometimes when we just don't know how to pray or whatelse to pray... tongues can help in these situations...
We will never have enough on our hands to pray for... Jesus never did, He was always praying... for everything. Praying in tongues for the things you do not know about might actually be praying for things that will affect your future now...
I think that CE is mature enough to know that we agree to disagree on certain things, this is just my view point from my own personal experience. No offence intended...Originally posted by M©+square:Oops! I wouldn't have answered that way if i were you.
Clever reply. Oki!Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think that CE is mature enough to know that we agree to disagree on certain things, this is just my view point from my own personal experience. No offence intended...
No problem lah. As long as we understand that there will always be differences and any replies or discussion does not evolve to mudslinging and name calling.Originally posted by M©+square:Oops! I wouldn't have answered that way if i were you.
This.... you are absolutely correct.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think that CE is mature enough to know that we agree to disagree on certain things, this is just my view point from my own personal experience. No offence intended...
The thing is - the above points were never supported scripturally. That is the problem that I (and perhaps some folks here in EH) am having. We all go around stating that all our beliefs has to be centered on the teachings of the Bible - it was never stated that Jesus spoke in tongues - so we cannot infer that he did. To do that is liken to people who claim that Jesus can get angry while we cannot because his is a holy anger (haven't we all heard this one before). Or that in the context of Acts, the purpose of tongues and the conduct of the practitioners are remarkably different from what is seen nowadays.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Glad you got your gift you asked for, my take is that 5 minutes praying in tongues can accomplish the same as an hour praying in english or chinese or whatever other language we pray in... praying in tongues, our spirit communes directly with God's spirit... fast, effective and simple, sometimes when we just don't know how to pray or whatelse to pray... tongues can help in these situations...
We will never have enough on our hands to pray for... Jesus never did, He was always praying... for everything. Praying in tongues for the things you do not know about might actually be praying for things that will affect your future now...
On your first point, you are absolutely correct.Originally posted by Chin Eng:I am sure, Brey, that you are one of those rational ones who will NOT insist that everyone of us need to practice this. There are, however, many practitioners (or churches) who do not see it this way.
Care to share on any Biblical verses that teaches any other purposes of tongues aside from those already stated in Acts and 1st Corinthians?
Suppose what you say is right. Then there's every possibility that anyone eavedropping or overhearing Jesus pray/speak in tongues would consider him mad or a heretic. Why? Because the concept and manifestation of the Holy Spirit was completely foreign to the Jews before the Holy Spirit was sent.Originally posted by breytonhartge:which verse? You forget that Jesus was before we were... He already has the Holy Spirit because Jesus, the Son, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are one... so Jesus would already have the Holy Spirit with Him, Jesus went to the Father to ask God to send the Holy Spirit to us, not for Him...
The discussion on spirit is probably a bit sensitive so I will avoid.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The one very sure thing, in my life that I have experienced is that if it is God and the Holy Spirit that is doing something, I have an inner peace that the world does not give, like what is described in the bible, if it is another spirit, there will be no inner peace. Check with your spirit within yourself, if there is peace then it will be of God. Once you have been a Christian for a while you will begin to know how to distinguish this. Pm me if you want to "talk" more about this. God Bless.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:It is ambitious to desire all gifts but it is the spirit who decide what gift to be given to whom, and when believers are given gifts, it is not for them to reject or accept but to find the best way to use the gifts as the spirit intended. (why does the spirit give us that gift?)
Distinguishing spirits is something that all Chrisitans should be able to do... it is not a gift for some and not others, in fact all the gifts are for us believers, not just some. [b]We are free to accept or reject the gift. But if it were me, I would want all the gifts of the spirit![/b]
really don't want to have anymore discussion on the spirit. But just a matter of interest, where was the Holy Spirit when Jesus was on earth? If It is with Jesus then Jesus wouldn't have to go to the Father to ask Him to send the Holy Spirit to us; If It was with the Father, it makes sense of what Jesus said, but then how could the spirit in Jesus be praying with him?Originally posted by breytonhartge:which verse? You forget that Jesus was before we were... He already has the Holy Spirit because Jesus, the Son, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are one... so Jesus would already have the Holy Spirit with Him, Jesus went to the Father to ask God to send the Holy Spirit to us, not for Him...
good point.... it should also be noted that on the Day of Pentecost, when tongues were given, there was a general display of surprise. Therefore, it can be safely concluded that such a display of supernatural manifestation was never witnessed by anyone before, the disciples included.Originally posted by macjoe:Suppose what you say is right. Then there's every possibility that anyone eavedropping or overhearing Jesus pray/speak in tongues would consider him mad or a heretic. Why? Because the concept and manifestation of the Holy Spirit was completely foreign to the Jews before the Holy Spirit was sent.
To suspect and spread the news that Jesus Christ is a heretic worshipping a foreign god would completely destroy his work. He probably would be stoned.
Still want to say he prayed and spoke in tongues? He may have the Holy Spirit but tongue-speaking or praying is not something Jesus Christ practised.
Your "theology" is very dangerous.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Glad you got your gift you asked for, my take is that 5 minutes praying in tongues can accomplish the same as an hour praying in english or chinese or whatever other language we pray in... praying in tongues, our spirit communes directly with God's spirit... fast, effective and simple, sometimes when we just don't know how to pray or whatelse to pray... tongues can help in these situations...
We will never have enough on our hands to pray for... Jesus never did, He was always praying... for everything. Praying in tongues for the things you do not know about might actually be praying for things that will affect your future now...