What do you believe in?
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Hi everyone, not sure if this is done before. Just wish to know the wide beliefs of people in the room. If this has been done before, I apologize.
If possible, just follow the titles I give, if not add your own
Theological Position: Theist
Faith: Christian, Protestant, Presbyterian
Why I believe/ Don't believe in God:
Why I believe in God. (pls note these are not arguments for existence of God, but personal thoughts)
1. Presence of meaning in this world. Love, morals, Man's ability to rationalize, creativity shown in music etc are just some of these. They either come by chance alone, or possibly by God. I believe in God.
2. ...
3. ... -
i believe in Conservative Evangelical theology:
a) Salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ [sola fide]
b) Trinity- three persons in the Godhead but one God
c) The Bible as innerrant from Genesis to Revelation and therefore authoritative and the only source for faith and practice [sola scriptura]
As to Calvinism and Arminianism:
I am a four-point Calvinist, i do not accept all the five tenets of Calvinism.
I accept only: a) Total Depravity b) Unconditional Election c) Irrisistible Grace and d) Preservation and perseverance of the Saints.
I reject Calvinism's doctrine of Limited Atonement; that Christ died only for the elect and not for all men.
I believe in Universal Atonement. The Atonement is universal and sufficient for all but efficacious only for those who believe. The atonement is universal but limited only because of man's unbelief.
As to my system of interpretation:
I am a Normative Dispensationalist like Scofield, Chafer, Swindoll, Ryrie, Pentecost, Barnhouse, Gray, Henry Allan Ironside, Woodrow Kroll and etc.
Essenstials of Dispensationalism:
a) Normal and plain interpretation of the Bible from GEnesis to Refelation, recognizing figures of speech but looking for the plain meaning behind the figure.
b) We Believe that the Church is not Israel [unlike covenant theology]. The Church is a distinct entity from Israel. A new creation.
c) We believe that God's goal of History is to glorify Himself.
d) We believe in one method of salvation in all of time [unlike Ultra Dispensationalist]. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
I am a Normative Dispensationalist like Scofield, Chafer, Swindoll, Ryrie, Pentecost, Barnhouse, Gray, Henry Allan Ironside, Woodrow Kroll and etc.
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Thanks for your input.
Well, I thought Limited Atonement means Christ's death is sufficient for the whole Mankind, but only efficient for the elect? That's how I interpret it. And I always thought that it is in line with the other 4 tenets of Calvinism. -
hello there Icemoon..............actually Henry Allan Ironside is one of my favorite Bible expositors. I got my nick on his last name.Originally posted by Icemoon: 
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All this theology doesnt appeal to me, I prefer in simple Christianity. I believe in Jesus Christ. Nothing more nothing less.
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you have to know your faith well enough to defend it. And by defending I mean you bring in logical arguments, not necessarily all from the Bible.Originally posted by fallin:All this theology doesnt appeal to me, I prefer in simple Christianity. I believe in Jesus Christ. Nothing more nothing less.
Christians nowadays are more passionate than knowledgeable about their faith. Though this may be good in a sense, a lack of knowledge might hamper evangelistic efforts.
just my 2 cents worth =) -
Agree.Originally posted by sgFish:you have to know your faith well enough to defend it. And by defending I mean you bring in logical arguments, not necessarily all from the Bible.
Christians nowadays are more passionate than knowledgeable about their faith. Though this may be good in a sense, a lack of knowledge might hamper evangelistic efforts.
just my 2 cents worth =)
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But don't you agree that many of the little details that theologians debate on have fairly little to do with a Christian's daily walk? And like you, this is only my 2 cents worth. =) LOL.Originally posted by sgFish:you have to know your faith well enough to defend it. And by defending I mean you bring in logical arguments, not necessarily all from the Bible.
Christians nowadays are more passionate than knowledgeable about their faith. Though this may be good in a sense, a lack of knowledge might hamper evangelistic efforts.
just my 2 cents worth =) -
very true. but when it comes to substantiating your case against atheists or attempting to bring one to Christ, especially one who has considerable knowledge of certain aspects of science that are supposedly against basic Christian assumptions, or one that attempts to point out logical flaws in the Bible, you might need these little details =)Originally posted by fallin:But don't you agree that many of the little details that theologians debate on have fairly little to do with a Christian's daily walk? And like you, this is only my 2 cents worth. =) LOL.
oh, and don't try to be antagonistic. -
what is this supposed to mean?Originally posted by sgFish:oh, and don't try to be antagonistic. -
Do you mean every single believers are to have considerable amount of knowledge in biblical and science studies so to stand as a christian?Originally posted by sgFish:very true. but when it comes to substantiating your case against atheists or attempting to bring one to Christ, especially one who has considerable knowledge of certain aspects of science that are supposedly against basic Christian assumptions, or one that attempts to point out logical flaws in the Bible, you might need these little details =)
oh, and don't try to be antagonistic.
Are you trying to tell me this is a ideal Christian.
Or without those, a christian will lose their powers to evangelise and to live as a believer of Christ?
I might have different interpretations, please shed light in regard to your post. =)
Cheers -
Well IMHO, if you have a chance to further studying....
Why not?
If you have the opportnity, we should all expound scripture to the best of our abilities, rather than leave Christianity "as it is". In fact, Christianity "as it is" is damn theological. We see a lot of 'Just believe in God' messages today, probably stemming from experential ideology, which is kind of sad since it undermines the Word of God as the most important thing in a Christian's life. No doubt faith is the most important thing that actually saves you, but a Christian with little love for Truth is kinda oxymoronic IMHO.
So, why not?
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Well regarding whether a Christian will 'lose' evanglising powers, first, it is God who converts. Second, without theology, what kind of gospel are you going to sell? A salesman must know everything about his product and as much as he can about rival products in order to sell it successfully. Without a good foundation of God's truth, I dare to say we might be unknowingly undermining His Gospel.
Yet on the other hand I feel that sometimes, all talk and no action is no use. A person who lives a righteous life is usually the one who can influence people more than someone who preaches well.
Heh. But both is best. -
I like SocialOutcast reasonings.
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am i gonna get shot at here?
i am a free thinker~~
but i respect all religion and beliefs and occassionally am interested in the histories and mythologies of some beliefs i read them up.
i shun those who persistantly tries to convert others.... -
i hope you shun only persistent people, and not people who talk to you nicely about religion
Yeah, and welcome. No shooting allowed here -
This was discussed briefly between brey and myself regarding Theology in Christian living.Originally posted by SocialOutcast:Well IMHO, if you have a chance to further studying....
Why not?
If you have the opportnity, we should all expound scripture to the best of our abilities, rather than leave Christianity "as it is". In fact, Christianity "as it is" is damn theological. We see a lot of 'Just believe in God' messages today, probably stemming from experential ideology, which is kind of sad since it undermines the Word of God as the most important thing in a Christian's life. No doubt faith is the most important thing that actually saves you, but a Christian with little love for Truth is kinda oxymoronic IMHO.
So, why not?
I don't know if we have a common ground here or not.
We must be objective onto the primary issues.
Theology does not save, it guides and aids to better understand of God and firm ground on doctrinal issues.
Yup. If a christian have the zeal like you do, they should go into studies about the word and science.
However it is not necessary, not a must. -
1) I cannot argue with you, since our stand is differs.Originally posted by SocialOutcast:Well regarding whether a Christian will 'lose' evanglising powers, first, it is God who converts. Second, without theology, what kind of gospel are you going to sell? A salesman must know everything about his product and as much as he can about rival products in order to sell it successfully. Without a good foundation of God's truth, I dare to say we might be unknowingly undermining His Gospel.
Yet on the other hand I feel that sometimes, all talk and no action is no use. A person who lives a righteous life is usually the one who can influence people more than someone who preaches well.
Heh. But both is best.
God converts - only through God's sovereign plan, he decides who to convert.
Who gives the power to evangelise? God gives empowerment Christians to evangelise?
God gives empowerment to study theology then.
2) Please define Theology.
I sense that you're trying to present theology as 'ultimate, the absolute'
To have good foundation, one must go through the study of Theology?
What is your product then? Theology?
How many Theological camps are there, and which are you talking about?
3) On the hand, you said it very well, and it is the best form of Christian Living. So what's the thing about Theology? -
Then state your stand.Originally posted by askxyz:I like SocialOutcast reasonings. -
i agree very much with both of SocialOutcast's responsesOriginally posted by M©+square:Do you mean every single believers are to have considerable amount of knowledge in biblical and science studies so to stand as a christian?
Are you trying to tell me this is a ideal Christian.
Or without those, a christian will lose their powers to evangelise and to live as a believer of Christ?
I might have different interpretations, please shed light in regard to your post. =)
Cheers
well i'm not saying that all believers take up a theology degree or something, as that would be quite counterproductive. but what i'm saying is that to be a better Christian, its better to know the intricacies of your faith (doesn't take much to do so) to better defend or promote it, in this however, we must realise that it is ultimately God and the Holy Spirit that brings a person to believe =)
Of course, in living a Christian lifestyle, faith is still the most important point. And i fully agree with what socialoutcast says hereOriginally posted by SocialOutcast:Without a good foundation of God's truth, I dare to say we might be unknowingly undermining His Gospel.
Yet on the other hand I feel that sometimes, all talk and no action is no use. A person who lives a righteous life is usually the one who can influence people more than someone who preaches well.
Heh. But both is best. -
i agree very much with both of SocialOutcast's responsesOriginally posted by sgFish:
well i'm not saying that all believers take up a theology degree or something, as that would be quite counterproductive. but what i'm saying is that to be a better Christian, its better to know the intricacies of your faith (doesn't take much to do so) to better defend or promote it, in this however, we must realise that it is ultimately God and the Holy Spirit that brings a person to believe =)
Of course, in living a Christian lifestyle, faith is still the most important point. And i fully agree with what socialoutcast says here
[/b][/quote]It would be ideal for all believers to study 'theology', however having knowledge to better defend or promote Faith and belief DOES NOT mean a Christian will be a better Christian, a more fervent and godly Christian.
Having ample Knowledge merely means a christian could defend the word/belief as well as 'promote' the word/belief. Are we missing the whole point here? The primary reason of Christianity?
I don't mean to look down on this 'Pro-Theology/knowledge' zeal.
I find it pretty freaky if all Christians were to go into studies just because they wish to defend and promote the word.
Let those who have the zeal do so. Let those at one part of their lives or another do their self realisation(or would you say, ultimately God and Holy Spirit will bring the person to Study Theology?)
p.s I have seen as well as heard of pastors who graduated from Bible Collages, after going through 3-4 years of knowledge studies.
They renounce their beliefs and went to other faiths.
::::Are you telling me that it's also ultimately God and Holy Spirit who will cause a person to reject their salvation?
Please explain your stand.
MC -
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ. -
well firstly you have to be a living testimony to others of what Christ has done for you. thats probably the most convincing argument anyone can bring up. However, one of the important points of Christianity is evangelism. As i said before, i'm not saying every Christian should study theology as a major, however, knowing the intricacies of your own faith might help yourself and others deal with questions that aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible eg. Suicide, euthanasia, women in ministry, or even whether watching/reading harry potter is evil...just to name a few.Originally posted by M©+square:It would be ideal for all believers to study 'theology', however having knowledge to better defend or promote Faith and belief DOES NOT mean a Christian will be a better Christian, a more fervent and godly Christian.
Having ample Knowledge merely means a christian could defend the word/belief as well as 'promote' the word/belief. Are we missing the whole point here? The primary reason of Christianity?
I don't mean to look down on this 'Pro-Theology/knowledge' zeal.
I find it pretty freaky if all Christians were to go into studies just because they wish to defend and promote the word.
Let those who have the zeal do so. Let those at one part of their lives or another do their self realisation(or would you say, ultimately God and Holy Spirit will bring the person to Study Theology?)
p.s I have seen as well as heard of pastors who graduated from Bible Collages, after going through 3-4 years of knowledge studies.
They renounce their beliefs and went to other faiths.
::::Are you telling me that it's also ultimately God and Holy Spirit who will cause a person to reject their salvation?
Please explain your stand.
MC
yes, i'd agree that knowing all that isn't the main point of Christianity. The primary aim of Christianity is coming to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior and having a personal relationshim with God. However, as i've mentioned above. knowing your faith well does have its advantages.
in response to
"Are you telling me that it's also ultimately God and Holy Spirit who will cause a person to reject their salvation?"
has it ever come to anyone's mind that these people did not have the Holy Spirit in them from the beginning?
thanks for the interesting points brought up =) -
Yes having the knowledge does have it's advantages.Originally posted by sgFish:well firstly you have to be a living testimony to others of what Christ has done for you. thats probably the most convincing argument anyone can bring up. However, one of the important points of Christianity is evangelism. As i said before, i'm not saying every Christian should study theology as a major, however, knowing the intricacies of your own faith might help yourself and others deal with questions that aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible eg. Suicide, euthanasia, women in ministry, or even whether watching/reading harry potter is evil...just to name a few.
yes, i'd agree that knowing all that isn't the main point of Christianity. The primary aim of Christianity is coming to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior and having a personal relationshim with God. However, as i've mentioned above. knowing your faith well does have its advantages.
in response to
"Are you telling me that it's also ultimately God and Holy Spirit who will cause a person to reject their salvation?"
has it ever come to anyone's mind that these people did not have the Holy Spirit in them from the beginning?
thanks for the interesting points brought up =)
However, saying and doing are different matters altogether. We'll leave that to other topic in the future.
'has it ever come to anyone's mind that these people did not have the Holy Spirit in them from the beginning?'
It is easy to discount by the fact that those people did not have H.S in them from the start.
We are talking about different group category, which i believe have presented in the earlier.
:::One who have experienced the indwelling of Holy Spirit.
So who causes the rejection?
Thanks for responding.