Pastor saying that
-
during each service,tere is tis process which we give our money as a token of appreciation to god. is it call tide?
anyway,i once attended tis svc at tis church (shall nt say out which church).
tis pastor said if u r just gonna tide a few coins and cents, u might as well keep it and dun give, as god does nt need ur donation.
well,i agree tt god do nt need our money. but wat reali hav me tinking is tt,y did e pastor make such a statement?
it is highly sensitive n would probably leave a negative impact. misleading ppl 2 tink tt church wans 2 make money out of ppl. -
Why don't someone conduct a survey of what cars pastors drive ? .....Originally posted by Sleeping Forest:during each service,tere is tis process which we give our money as a token of appreciation to god. is it call tide?
anyway,i once attended tis svc at tis church (shall nt say out which church).
tis pastor said if u r just gonna tide a few coins and cents, u might as well keep it and dun give, as god does nt need ur donation.
well,i agree tt god do nt need our money. but wat reali hav me tinking is tt,y did e pastor make such a statement?
it is highly sensitive n would probably leave a negative impact. misleading ppl 2 tink tt church wans 2 make money out of ppl.
Mercedes are not an uncommon sight it seems ...... -
This is called a tithe.Originally posted by Sleeping Forest:during each service,tere is tis process which we give our money as a token of appreciation to god. is it call tide?
anyway,i once attended tis svc at tis church (shall nt say out which church).
tis pastor said if u r just gonna tide a few coins and cents, u might as well keep it and dun give, as god does nt need ur donation.
well,i agree tt god do nt need our money. but wat reali hav me tinking is tt,y did e pastor make such a statement?
it is highly sensitive n would probably leave a negative impact. misleading ppl 2 tink tt church wans 2 make money out of ppl.
My opinion is that this pastor is incorrect. I'm very concern with the church you are attending.
The concept of offering falls into these few category:
10% tithe - which is 10% of a person's income - not all churches enforce this principle.
Normal offering - which may be for specific purposes eg missionary fund, building fund, special cause (like tsunami victims).
God is the final judge of each worshippers offering, no pastor is in the position to comment. The yardstick in the Bible is that Jesus told of a poor widow who only gave a few coins, but she gave all she had, as compared to the rich pharisee who gave only a small percentage of what he has. The critical factor really is the spirit of the giver - knowing why we give is important. God doesn't really want your money, afterall he's rich beyond description. God wants you attitude in giving for "God loves a cheerful giver".
Yes, there are places of "worship" that makes money out their worshippers. You might wish to visit a few more churches to make a better judgement on where you are going to now. -
your pastor said that? he should be ashamed of himself.
-
So all the more we should give right to God? Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give? God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right? Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?Originally posted by Chin Eng:This is called a tithe.
My opinion is that this pastor is incorrect. I'm very concern with the church you are attending.
The concept of offering falls into these few category:
10% tithe - which is 10% of a person's income - not all churches enforce this principle.
Normal offering - which may be for specific purposes eg missionary fund, building fund, special cause (like tsunami victims).
God is the final judge of each worshippers offering, no pastor is in the position to comment. The yardstick in the Bible is that Jesus told of a poor widow who only gave a few coins, but she gave all she had, as compared to the rich pharisee who gave only a small percentage of what he has. The critical factor really is the spirit of the giver - knowing why we give is important. God doesn't really want your money, afterall he's rich beyond description. God wants you attitude in giving for "God loves a cheerful giver".
Yes, there are places of "worship" that makes money out their worshippers. You might wish to visit a few more churches to make a better judgement on where you are going to now. -
There is nothing in my writing that talks about how much we, personally, give to God. You give what you see fit. Your gift to God is personal, it's between you and God. No one should TELL you how much to gift.Originally posted by John The Baptist:So all the more we should give right to God? Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give? God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right? Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?
The emphasis is on the PASTOR in the original note's statement on the coins - ie the attitude of the PASTOR and what HE SAID.
Your "gift" of twisting meanings and context never fails to amaze me. -
didnt jesus said before that it is easier for the camel to go through the hole of a needle than for the rich to go to heaven?Originally posted by John The Baptist:So all the more we should give right to God? Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give? God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right? Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?
tithe is 10% of ones income.
but how many actually give, let alone that amount? -
If it's during each service.Originally posted by Sleeping Forest:during each service,tere is tis process which we give our money as a token of appreciation to god. is it call tide?
anyway,i once attended tis svc at tis church (shall nt say out which church).
tis pastor said if u r just gonna tide a few coins and cents, u might as well keep it and dun give, as god does nt need ur donation.
well,i agree tt god do nt need our money. but wat reali hav me tinking is tt,y did e pastor make such a statement?
it is highly sensitive n would probably leave a negative impact. misleading ppl 2 tink tt church wans 2 make money out of ppl.
I'd suppose this process is called 'offering'.
Tithing is a monthly offering, extracting 10% of the monthly income and giving to the church.
Yup i was also thing what made the pastor do that.
Only one possibility - Building New Church Building
p.s - is it a huge church?
cheers -
1] So all the more we should give right to God?Originally posted by John The Baptist:So all the more we should give right to God? Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give? God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right? Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?
Not wrong
2] Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give?
Hmm...let's say we try to take a parallel statement and see how it goes.
a) Grace loves to go to church and sing praises to God.
So shouldn't these people who loves worship stay in church throughout every single services and those who don't enjoy worship have no excuse not to stay? Moreover, God loves sincere worshippers.
So we should stay in church from morning till evening?
Or he won't love you just bcos you only attend one service of worship instead of three services?
Offering time and worship to God.
3] God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right?
You have said it right. God loves a cheerful giver.
That said, it is the Attitude Of The Heart.
Whoever felt the need to give more, He/She should.
Whoever felt should give less. He/She should.
Which leads to answer point 2a.
4] Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?
God loves all givers who have honest heart.
Stingy and miserly doesn't mean God will frown upon. Correction of man's character, God will change him according to his time.
p.s Ever Heard of church pressure? That is something which i think God will frown upon. -
1) Thank you for agreeing with me. It's correct.Originally posted by M©+square:1] So all the more we should give right to God?
Not wrong
2] Even the widow who is so poor with nothing to eat can give all her money away? So shouldnt those who are rich give even more & the poor have no excuse not to give?
Hmm...let's say we try to take a parallel statement and see how it goes.
a) Grace loves to go to church and sing praises to God.
So shouldn't these people who loves worship stay in church throughout every single services and those who don't enjoy worship have no excuse not to stay? Moreover, God loves sincere worshippers.
So we should stay in church from morning till evening?
Or he won't love you just bcos you only attend one service of worship instead of three services? Offering time and worship to God.
3] God loves a cheerful giver like what u say, so we should cheerfully give right?
You have said it right. God loves a cheerful giver.
That said, it is the Attitude Of The Heart.
Whoever felt the need to give more, He/She should.
Whoever felt should give less. He/She should.
Which leads to answer point 2a.
4] Or he wont love you at all bcos you are so stingy & miserly to Him?
God loves all givers who have honest heart.
Stingy and miserly doesn't mean God will frown upon. Correction of man's character, God will change him according to his time.
p.s Ever Heard of church pressure? That is something which i think God will frown upon.
2) I think not good parallel. You are going to extremes. God never said to force ppl to worship Him. We worship from the heart. Yes, ppl who love worship should stay thruout the services bcos they enjoy it anyway. Then if ppl who dont enjoy worship can dont sing or dont clap or dont dance. God never force u to sing or worship or go to church. If not sincere in worshipping God why go to church(to Christians only)? Sinners are always welcome.
U are confusing the issue here. No money=no church building. While i agree that ppl can still worship God outside or in their homes, why cant they worship 24 hrs a day 7 days a week even at their workplace or homes? Worship not restricted to church bcos God not just found in church. So we go out into the world & act like demons? If we just worship God on sunday & then worship other things on mon to fridays, then how can God still love you?
3) Yes, thanks for agreeing & it's an attitude of the heart. But only God knows Your heart. Jesus will look at Your heart & see you plonk the money down the treasury box. So u give in secret & God rewards in secret. So the more cheerful u are so God loves u more? Anyway, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. So He loves all anyway, so shouldnt we grow up? Yes, it leads to pt 2 bcos we will want to stay in church & give God more offerings & time etc. Cheerfully.
4) Just an assumption bcos from the text it says God loves a cheerful giver, so He doesnt love one who does not give or give stingily or miserly? Yes, honesty is better than to give dishonestly. Yes, God also changed me, He can change anyone if they allow Him to.
Yes I 100% agree. God frowns upon church pressure. -
2)Originally posted by John The Baptist:1) Thank you for agreeing with me. It's correct.
2) I think not good parallel. You are going to extremes. God never said to force ppl to worship Him. We worship from the heart. Yes, ppl who love worship should stay thruout the services bcos they enjoy it anyway. Then if ppl who dont enjoy worship can dont sing or dont clap or dont dance. God never force u to sing or worship or go to church. If not sincere in worshipping God why go to church(to Christians only)? Sinners are always welcome.
U are confusing the issue here. No money=no church building. While i agree that ppl can still worship God outside or in their homes, why cant they worship 24 hrs a day 7 days a week even at their workplace or homes? Worship not restricted to church bcos God not just found in church. So we go out into the world & act like demons? If we just worship God on sunday & then worship other things on mon to fridays, then how can God still love you?
3) Yes, thanks for agreeing & it's an attitude of the heart. But only God knows Your heart. Jesus will look at Your heart & see you plonk the money down the treasury box. So u give in secret & God rewards in secret. So the more cheerful u are so God loves u more? Anyway, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. So He loves all anyway, so shouldnt we grow up? Yes, it leads to pt 2 bcos we will want to stay in church & give God more offerings & time etc. Cheerfully.
4) Just an assumption bcos from the text it says God loves a cheerful giver, so He doesnt love one who does not give or give stingily or miserly? Yes, honesty is better than to give dishonestly. Yes, God also changed me, He can change anyone if they allow Him to.
Yes I 100% agree. God frowns upon church pressure.
a]I think not good parallel. You are going to extremes. God never said to force ppl to worship Him. We worship from the heart. Yes, ppl who love worship should stay thruout the services bcos they enjoy it anyway.Then if ppl who dont enjoy worship can dont sing or dont clap or dont dance. God never force u to sing or worship or go to church.
b]If not sincere in worshipping God why go to church(to Christians only)?
I don't think i'm going into extreme here. Though it may be difficult to strike the exact parallel, you may differ from my views.
Yes i agree that this illustration is quite a poor one.
No issue here.
You are right. God never force His will onto anyone.
God desires worshippers. And the primary Christian duty is to Worship and Praise God.
Again, God never forces believers to tithe if they do not want to.
Since you've brought the discussion to another level, on Church going.
Precisely, you've answered your own question posted formerly.
Quoted in b] so the similiar Parallel is : If not sincere in giving tithe and offerings onto God, why give?(To Christians only)
c]Sinners are always welcome.
You call them unbelievers....not sinners
One more time It's Unbelievers or Non Christians
They are not suppose to give tithe and offering although it is freewill to do so.
But without knowing the meaning of it. Their form of 'worship' in offerings will be rendered as nothing.
d]U are confusing the issue here. No money=no church building.
I interprete this statement in two fold. To prevent further miscomms.
i) This is a statement from you to me.
ii) You interprete from my post which i implied 'there is no need to give those money to church?'
Ans to i)
Not wrong. No money means no building.
Ans to ii)
If you meant this. I did not imply that one should give more or less.
One should give according to the attitude of the heart.
This is a more concerning factor in spiritual aspect.
For Money, in my perspective. I'll leave it to the Head of the church to settle. My money is a form of worship onto God. Period.
If i get this straight, everything regarding Christian Living will be set consistent.
e]While i agree that ppl can still worship God outside or in their homes, why cant they worship 24 hrs a day 7 days a week even at their workplace or homes?
Let's bring ourselves back to the topic yea?
Church tithing and offering comprises a few aspect. (again you may wish to differ)
::: Church Worshipper
::: Church
::: Spiritual issue of stweardship in possesions of wealth.
A christian can worship at home. But can the christian give his/her tithings and offerings in their own homes?
The medium to tithings and offerings is the church.
Likewise, The place to worship and gather among believers is the church.
Church is the medium to gather all worshippers in one goal. - To Give Please God in unison.
The parallel is suppose to paint the picture: - that if one seems more generous and cheerfully in offering money, it should not at any reason to influence any others to do the similiar. Likewise it applies to Worship
Tithing and Offerings - Money and expression of Love
Worship offerings - Time and intangibles/expression of Love.
It does relates yeah?
f]Worship not restricted to church bcos God not just found in church. So we go out into the world & act like demons?
I need your definition of Church and Demons.
I can't find the link. Even with believers all worshipping in Church only(restricted). i don't see how they can go out in the world and act like demons.
This is puzzling, i'm eager to see a logic in this statement.
I'm even more interested to know where you got this thought from
g]If we just worship God on sunday & then worship other things on mon to fridays, then how can God still love you?
Frankly? You want the theology of God(MC's version)?
God will still love to the extend which is boundless - uncomprehensive.
Other than bringing/discussing about the wrath of God - we should have a common understanding that no matter what a believer does or sin,
It is the will of God to bring this believer back to HIS side.
It all boils down to love. -
Hmm..since i'm free...i think i should reply to the other point also.
Unker CE. What do you think? -
After second and third read.Originally posted by Sleeping Forest:tis pastor said if u r just gonna tide a few coins and cents, u might as well keep it and dun give, as god does nt need ur donation.
Maybe the pastor might have meant this to the congregation.
'If you're giving this few coins and cents as though like donations, like a chore.
Then might as well keep it. God don't need donations, God wants a Giver that gives onto Him.' -
The poster might be lifting out of context.
-
No comments from me on anything from JTB or to JTB. No point. He will insert his own meaning into them anyway, taking anything and everything out of context, once that is done, he calls you names.Originally posted by M©+square:Hmm..since i'm free...i think i should reply to the other point also.
Unker CE. What do you think? -
That, in sgforums speak, is called trolling.Originally posted by Chin Eng:No comments from me on anything from JTB or to JTB. No point. He will insert his own meaning into them anyway, taking anything and everything out of context, once that is done, he calls you names.
Many would have said, as a solution, dont feed the trolls....