Do Christians believe in the existance of ghost?
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Then what do you reckon?Originally posted by Icemoon:I agree with JTB this time. They were not ghosts since the bible never presented them as ghosts. -
Eh, cannot convince or win debate dont need to resort to a whole load of KSMs and name callings...Originally posted by John The Baptist:Shut up dictator! You are leftist yourself.
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I anyhow guess here.Originally posted by M©+square:Then what do you reckon?
Maybe they're sent down from the heavenly court? God had a direct hand in the transfiguration. I don't think we call such apparitions ghost?
Compare with the Samuel case. He was called up by a witch. Exactly do a witch has such powers to summon someone in the heavenly court?
Ok .. forgive me if I'm KSM this time. -
Nono, it's not KSMs.Originally posted by Icemoon:I anyhow guess here.
Maybe they're sent down from the heavenly court? God had a direct hand in the transfiguration. I don't think we call such apparitions ghost?
Compare with the Samuel case. He was called up by a witch. Exactly do a witch has such powers to summon someone in the heavenly court?
Ok .. forgive me if I'm KSM this time.
But i'm more interested of why you did such a strong response concurring with JTB.
We'll look thru the findings and discuss objectively yea?
Personally, i find the commentary below doesnt fully satisfy me.
But it does give some perspective to look at and consider what happen again.
Then again, even if people were to subscribe to this point of view in 1 Sam 28. There are also other questions rushing in.
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Of 1 Samuel 28:11-20 as well as the whole chapter.
Matthew Henry's Commentary
If Saul had thought it necessary to his conversation with Samuel that the body of Samuel should be called out of the grave, he would have taken the witch with him to Ramah, where his sepulchre was; but the design was wholly upon his soul, which yet, if it became visible, was expected to appear in the usual resemblance of the body; and God permitted the devil, to answer the design, to put on Samuel's shape, that those who would not receive the love of the truth might be given up to strong delusions and believe a lie. That it could not be the soul of Samuel himself they might easily apprehend when it ascended out of the earth,
'for the spirit of a man, much more of a good man, goes upward' Eccl. 3:21. But, if people will be deceived, it is just with God to say, "Let them be deceived; That the devil, by the divine permission, should be able to personate Samuel is not strange, since he can transform himself into an angel of light! nor is it strange that he should be permitted to do it upon this occasion, that Saul might be driven to despair, by enquiring of the devil, since he would not, in a right manner, enquire of the Lord, by which he might have had comfort.
his heart being wretchedly hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Saul, it seems, was not permitted to see any manner of similitude himself, but he must take the woman's word for it, that she saw an old man covered with a mantle, or robe, the habit of a judge, which Samuel had sometimes worn, and some think it was for the sake of that, and the majesty of its aspect,
We have here the conference between Saul and Satan. Saul came in disguise (v.
, but Satan soon discovered him, v. 12. Satan comes in disguise, in the disguise of Samuel's mantle, and Saul cannot discover him. Such is the disadvantage we labour under, in wrestling with the rulers of the darkness of this world, that they know us, while we are ignorant of their wiles and devices.
Why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up? To us this discovers that it was an evil spirit that personated Samuel;
for it is not in the power of witches to disturb the rest of good men and to bring them back into the world when they please; nor would the true Samuel have acknowledged such a power in magical arts: but to Saul this was a proper device of Satan's, to draw veneration from him, to possess him with an opinion of the power of divination, and so to rivet him in the devil's interests.
Nothing is said to reconcile him to David, but all tends rather to exasperate him against David and widen the breach. Yet, to make him believe that he was Samuel, the apparition affirmed that it was God who spoke by him. The devil knows how to speak with an air of religion, and can teach false apostles to transform themselves into the apostles of Christ and imitate their language. Those who use spells and charms, and plead, in defence of them, that they find nothing in them but what is good, may remember what good words the devil here spoke, and yet with what a malicious design.
He upbraids him with his disobedience to the command of God in not destroying the Amalekites, v. 18.
Satan had helped him to palliate and excuse that sin when Samuel was dealing with him to bring him to repentance, but now he aggravates it, to make him despair of God's mercy. See what those get that hearken to Satan's temptations. He himself will be their accuser, and insult over them.
And see whom those resemble that allure others to that which is evil and reproach them for it when they have done. He foretels his approaching ruin, v. 19. That his army should be routed by the Philistines.
This is twice mentioned: The Lord shall deliver Israel into the hand of the Philistines. This he might foresee, by considering the superior strength and number of the Philistines, the weakness of the armies of Israel, Saul's terror, and especially God's departure from them.
Yet, to personate a prophet, he very gravely ascribes it once and again to God: The Lord shall do it.
That he and his sons should be slain in the battle: Tomorrow, that is, in a little time (and, supposing that it was now after midnight, I see not but it may be taken strictly for the very next day after that which had now begun), thou and thy sons shall be with me, that is, in the state of the dead, separate from the body.
Had this been the true Samuel, he could not have foretold the event unless God had revealed it to him; and, though it were an evil spirit, God might by him foretel it; as we read of an evil spirit that foresaw Ahab's fall at Ramoth-Gilead and was instrumental in it (1 Ki. 22:20, etc.),
as perhaps this evil spirit was, by the divine permission, in Saul's destruction. That evil spirit flattered Ahab, this frightened Saul, and both that they might fall; so miserable are those that are under the power of Satan; for, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest, Prov. 29:9.
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Lucifer was cast down from Heaven, bringing 1/3 of the angels with him. and he became S.A.Tan.
On earth, they are the one disturbing people, coz they not yet gone into eternal death.
The rest of it, let the bible scholars tell u... -
God loves you & I love you, klishcia. Pls forgive me. {Hug & kiss}Originally posted by klishcia:Do Christians believe in the existance of ghost? Or they only believe there's demons/evil spirits?
I went to this multi-million building located at the west side of Singapore. Seems like they don't believe in the existance of ghost or ppl have 'the third eye' to see things from the other world and the symbol of a dragon is evil.
Can someone tell me the truth?
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God loves you & I love you, stellazio. Pls forgive me. {Hug & kiss}Originally posted by stellazio:yes i believe that they exist... -
God loves you & I love you, LinYu. Pls forgive me. {Hug & kiss}Originally posted by LinYu:Father, son and holy ghost.
so? -
God loves you & I love you, Sleeping Forest. Pls forgive me. {Hug & kiss}Originally posted by Sleeping Forest:heard of holy ghosts? -
Amen.Originally posted by M©+square:Nono, it's not KSMs.
But i'm more interested of why you did such a strong response concurring with JTB.
We'll look thru the findings and discuss objectively yea?
Personally, i find the commentary below doesnt fully satisfy me.
But it does give some perspective to look at and consider what happen again.
Then again, even if people were to subscribe to this point of view in 1 Sam 28. There are also other questions rushing in.
_______
Of 1 Samuel 28:11-20 as well as the whole chapter.
Matthew Henry's Commentary
If Saul had thought it necessary to his conversation with Samuel that the body of Samuel should be called out of the grave, he would have taken the witch with him to Ramah, where his sepulchre was; but the design was wholly upon his soul, which yet, if it became visible, was expected to appear in the usual resemblance of the body; and God permitted the devil, to answer the design, to put on Samuel's shape, that those who would not receive the love of the truth might be given up to strong delusions and believe a lie. That it could not be the soul of Samuel himself they might easily apprehend when it ascended out of the earth,
'for the spirit of a man, much more of a good man, goes upward' Eccl. 3:21. But, if people will be deceived, it is just with God to say, "Let them be deceived; That the devil, by the divine permission, should be able to personate Samuel is not strange, since he can transform himself into an angel of light! nor is it strange that he should be permitted to do it upon this occasion, that Saul might be driven to despair, by enquiring of the devil, since he would not, in a right manner, enquire of the Lord, by which he might have had comfort.
his heart being wretchedly hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Saul, it seems, was not permitted to see any manner of similitude himself, but he must take the woman's word for it, that she saw an old man covered with a mantle, or robe, the habit of a judge, which Samuel had sometimes worn, and some think it was for the sake of that, and the majesty of its aspect,
We have here the conference between Saul and Satan. Saul came in disguise (v., but Satan soon discovered him, v. 12. Satan comes in disguise, in the disguise of Samuel's mantle, and Saul cannot discover him. Such is the disadvantage we labour under, in wrestling with the rulers of the darkness of this world, that they know us, while we are ignorant of their wiles and devices.
Why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up? To us this discovers that it was an evil spirit that personated Samuel;
for it is not in the power of witches to disturb the rest of good men and to bring them back into the world when they please; nor would the true Samuel have acknowledged such a power in magical arts: but to Saul this was a proper device of Satan's, to draw veneration from him, to possess him with an opinion of the power of divination, and so to rivet him in the devil's interests.
Nothing is said to reconcile him to David, but all tends rather to exasperate him against David and widen the breach. Yet, to make him believe that he was Samuel, the apparition affirmed that it was God who spoke by him. The devil knows how to speak with an air of religion, and can teach false apostles to transform themselves into the apostles of Christ and imitate their language. Those who use spells and charms, and plead, in defence of them, that they find nothing in them but what is good, may remember what good words the devil here spoke, and yet with what a malicious design.
He upbraids him with his disobedience to the command of God in not destroying the Amalekites, v. 18.
Satan had helped him to palliate and excuse that sin when Samuel was dealing with him to bring him to repentance, but now he aggravates it, to make him despair of God's mercy. See what those get that hearken to Satan's temptations. He himself will be their accuser, and insult over them.
And see whom those resemble that allure others to that which is evil and reproach them for it when they have done. He foretels his approaching ruin, v. 19. That his army should be routed by the Philistines.
This is twice mentioned: The Lord shall deliver Israel into the hand of the Philistines. This he might foresee, by considering the superior strength and number of the Philistines, the weakness of the armies of Israel, Saul's terror, and especially God's departure from them.
Yet, to personate a prophet, he very gravely ascribes it once and again to God: The Lord shall do it.
That he and his sons should be slain in the battle: Tomorrow, that is, in a little time (and, supposing that it was now after midnight, I see not but it may be taken strictly for the very next day after that which had now begun), thou and thy sons shall be with me, that is, in the state of the dead, separate from the body.
Had this been the true Samuel, he could not have foretold the event unless God had revealed it to him; and, though it were an evil spirit, God might by him foretel it; as we read of an evil spirit that foresaw Ahab's fall at Ramoth-Gilead and was instrumental in it (1 Ki. 22:20, etc.),
as perhaps this evil spirit was, by the divine permission, in Saul's destruction. That evil spirit flattered Ahab, this frightened Saul, and both that they might fall; so miserable are those that are under the power of Satan; for, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest, Prov. 29:9.
End