Was a gay always gay from birth or environment play a part?
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Hello everyone, i am back.
Went to bi guan xiu lian (meditate behind closed doors). 
I see a very interesting thread on homos but got no time to read them all just read first page. I agree Christians shouldnt force their beliefs on ppl but when someone speaks up from a Christian perspective from the bible w/c acc to us it's God's Word, can gays not be angry or anyone in fact who doesnt agree bible is God's Word? It seems like God "condemning" the gays & everyone not Christian since it's God's Word? If God said so, then it must be so w/c they feel it's not so? So how? Anyway, not my pt to prove bible is really God's word.
My pt here is as the title above: was a gay always gay from birth or environment play a part? Genetic vs environment? I would like to hear or read scientific research articles from credible scientists in estab universities put here on this forum, maybe links or websites or research papers, both for or against gay as inherited or acquired. Then maybe we can debate factually & intelligently instead of theologically or emotionally.
In my case, i know of research done w/c indicates the brain structure of gay males r diff from normal males even in animals, but i ask one thing: could this brain structure have come abt bcos of environmental pressure on weak genes of certain individuals? Was the brain of such person basically weak so that additional stress caused the brain to change or shrink etc?
We know schizophrenics r genetically linked but again i ask, could these mental patients have been subjected to extreme stress w/c normal ppl could bear but they couldnt so they broke down? Could potential schizos also be spared if they had easier stress free lives? So genetic a large part plus env? If these potential gays were given normal childhood or less stress could they have remained straight? Could this condition be reversed like for schizos or controlled using drugs, psychotherapy, prayer, counselling etc? Are they to blame if its genetics or even environmental or both? Are they held accountable to God if they believe in God at all? So many questions.
For eg, i saw on discovery channel that murderers on death row in US were scanned using MRI/CAT & scientists discovered that when they become angry, their frontal cortex didnt light up, indicating they not thinking at all but hind brain lights up indicating emotions took control. Rational brain not working at all! A deficiency in brain structure or nerve cells? Normal ppl have both areas light up in anger so they can control emotion & not hack someone. So can they be blamed for the murders they committed? Should they be hanged? Pls ponder. God bless u. -
paging for ah heng
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Paging for Nelstar...
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God never said it was wrong to be gay or condemn gays. It was some bigots who didnt like gays and went around telling people that it was God's word. And amazingly...many people believed it.
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We Singapore society only recognise male and female only.. the others like gays, transvestite and so on..ppl will look at you in different eye. often weird
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Can i ask u a question? I was wondering how u tell a gay from his/her appearance? I know of gays who r big macho men or pretty feminine women. Can anyone really tell a gay from a straight at first sight? I know of ppl who arent gay but look sissy or look tomboyish. Pls enlighten me.Originally posted by icegir:We Singapore society only recognise male and female only.. the others like gays, transvestite and so on..ppl will look at you in different eye. often weird -
Pls read Romans chapter 1, verses 18-32. Then u must condemn Paul as a bigot also. Or maybe condemn God as a bigot. Pls read also Romans chapter 2. Paul sternly rebuked unsaved Jews & Gentiles here. The book of Romans is the most impt book of the NT epistles, from w/c grace is founded & Pauline doctrine established. Since Paul chose to start the first 2 chapters of this grace book of Romans with rebukes, then it must be very important to the church & world then. & Rome was the center of civilisation then bcos acc to some ppl all roads lead to Rome, w/c i dont agree.Originally posted by shade343:God never said it was wrong to be gay or condemn gays. It was some bigots who didnt like gays and went around telling people that it was God's word. And amazingly...many people believed it.
Anyway, God is not just against gays. He is against ALL KINDS OF SINS. Big sins, small sins, black lies, white lies, known sins, hidden sins, evil thots & motives, hypocrisy, pharasaicism, holier than thou attitudes, adultery, fornication, p0rn, v0yeurism, mast**bation, idol worship or simply refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as God the Son, of which i was guilty also. Bcos all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God. There's none righteous, no not one. All have gone astray, each his own way. Our righteousness is but filthy rags in sight of God. We need forgiveness of God thru Christ blood. We need to repent daily & carry cross daily. God bless u. -
JTB.... you are confusing the audience again.... your opening post specifically asked for a debate factually and intelligently instead of theologicallly or emotionally.
My pt here is as the title above: was a gay always gay from birth or environment play a part? Genetic vs environment? I would like to hear or read scientific research articles from credible scientists in estab universities put here on this forum, maybe links or websites or research papers, both for or against gay as inherited or acquired. Then maybe we can debate factually & intelligently instead of theologically or emotionally.
Then you go and use Romans and theology to support your argument.....
Mods..... close this thread lah.... not point... been there, done that!
Pls read Romans chapter 1, verses 18-32. Then u must condemn Paul as a bigot also. Or maybe condemn God as a bigot. Pls read also Romans chapter 2. Paul sternly rebuked unsaved Jews & Gentiles here. The book of Romans is the most impt book of the NT epistles, from w/c grace is founded & Pauline doctrine established. Since Paul chose to start the first 2 chapters of this grace book of Romans with rebukes, then it must be very important to the church & world then. & Rome was the center of civilisation then bcos acc to some ppl all roads lead to Rome, w/c i dont agree.
Anyway, God is not just against gays. He is against ALL KINDS OF SINS. Big sins, small sins, black lies, white lies, known sins, hidden sins, evil thots & motives, hypocrisy, pharasaicism, holier than thou attitudes, adultery, fornication, p0rn, v0yeurism, mast**bation, idol worship or simply refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as God the Son, of which i was guilty also. Bcos all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God. There's none righteous, no not one. All have gone astray, each his own way. Our righteousness is but filthy rags in sight of God. We need forgiveness of God thru Christ blood. We need to repent daily & carry cross daily. God bless u. -
yap, close it before earthings73 wakes up.
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x2Originally posted by sgdiehard:yap, close it before earthings73 wakes up. -
never mind lah .. maybe it is the deity's plan to help us increase ratings.
in any case .. I reply before the mod closes it down.
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ta da.
too late i saw it. -
Originally posted by HENG@:ta da.
too late i saw it.
Cheers -
This statement on the Most important Epistle - Romans. I trust that it's your personal views right?Originally posted by John The Baptist:Pls read Romans chapter 1, verses 18-32. Then u must condemn Paul as a bigot also. Or maybe condemn God as a bigot. Pls read also Romans chapter 2. Paul sternly rebuked unsaved Jews & Gentiles here. The book of Romans is the most impt book of the NT epistles, from w/c grace is founded & Pauline doctrine established. Since Paul chose to start the first 2 chapters of this grace book of Romans with rebukes, then it must be very important to the church & world then. & Rome was the center of civilisation then bcos acc to some ppl all roads lead to Rome, w/c i dont agree.
Anyway, God is not just against gays. He is against ALL KINDS OF SINS. Big sins, small sins, black lies, white lies, known sins, hidden sins, evil thots & motives, hypocrisy, pharasaicism, holier than thou attitudes, adultery, fornication, p0rn, v0yeurism, mast**bation, idol worship or simply refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as God the Son, of which i was guilty also. Bcos all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God. There's none righteous, no not one. All have gone astray, each his own way. Our righteousness is but filthy rags in sight of God. We need forgiveness of God thru Christ blood. We need to repent daily & carry cross daily. God bless u.
You've stated it because Paul took off from Romans with rebukes and corrections? That is why you summed up that Romans is the most important epistle.
I have problem agreeing with your bible and your knowledge.
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God is not just against gays. He is against ALL KINDS OF SINS.
Hmm...ok. Fair statement.
But can you tell me what are sins which leads to condemnation?
What constitude to a sin?
- Those 'sins' stated by you, i believe were your personal point of views again yea?
It all seemed warpped.
Cheers -
From the thread title, I think this is a science discussion right?
The christian point of view was discussed in here http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=141047&page=0
If there are no objections I will close this thread. JTP, please discuss this in another appropriate forum. -
i read it and actually i only condemn paul as bigot. because paul is only human. i dun see jesus saying anything that god thinks being gay is wrong. so paul must have been voicing his own humanistic biased views.Originally posted by John The Baptist:Pls read Romans chapter 1, verses 18-32. Then u must condemn Paul as a bigot also. Or maybe condemn God as a bigot. Pls read also Romans chapter 2. Paul sternly rebuked unsaved Jews & Gentiles here. The book of Romans is the most impt book of the NT epistles, from w/c grace is founded & Pauline doctrine established. Since Paul chose to start the first 2 chapters of this grace book of Romans with rebukes, then it must be very important to the church & world then. & Rome was the center of civilisation then bcos acc to some ppl all roads lead to Rome, w/c i dont agree.
Anyway, God is not just against gays. He is against ALL KINDS OF SINS. Big sins, small sins, black lies, white lies, known sins, hidden sins, evil thots & motives, hypocrisy, pharasaicism, holier than thou attitudes, adultery, fornication, p0rn, v0yeurism, mast**bation, idol worship or simply refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as God the Son, of which i was guilty also. Bcos all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God. There's none righteous, no not one. All have gone astray, each his own way. Our righteousness is but filthy rags in sight of God. We need forgiveness of God thru Christ blood. We need to repent daily & carry cross daily. God bless u. -
So if Paul is a bigot and he is responsible for about half the books in the NT, that would mean that at least that amount of books is not the Word of God.... then factor in the possibility that James, Peter, and John are also bigots, we're left with the OT....... hmmm strange predicament.....
The Bible is NOT a buffet spread where one can choose to accept or refuse any portion of the content. -
Close lah! another bo-liao thread by JTB......Originally posted by sillyme:If there are no objections I will close this thread. JTP, please discuss this in another appropriate forum. -
environmental changes
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I fail to see why christians like to accept the bible as a whole....this is despite knowing very well that the original teachings of the bibles has been manipulated and changed throughout the century. Worst...they accept human views on certain subjects as "Word of God".
They have the freedom to believe what is truth and what is fiction from the bible. Yet they decide to believe fiction as truth. Oh well...I guess I should respect their free will after all... -
disagree. the difference is that the early parts of the NT were written factually about Jesus's life as a newspaper report might report on an incident. Later parts written after Jesus's death are like a newspaper columnist expressing his views on some things. Simple fact is, it is the Church who lump all these writings together n label them "Bible" and "New Testament" So I don't see why I must accept them all word for word as facts.Originally posted by Chin Eng:So if Paul is a bigot and he is responsible for about half the books in the NT, that would mean that at least that amount of books is not the Word of God.... then factor in the possibility that James, Peter, and John are also bigots, we're left with the OT....... hmmm strange predicament.....
The Bible is NOT a buffet spread where one can choose to accept or refuse any portion of the content. -
Three of the Gospels were written at between AD 50 and AD 60. Luke may have been written as late as AD 80.Originally posted by HENG@:disagree. the difference is that the early parts of the NT were written factually about Jesus's life as a newspaper report might report on an incident. Later parts written after Jesus's death are like a newspaper columnist expressing his views on some things. Simple fact is, it is the Church who lump all these writings together n label them "Bible" and "New Testament" So I don't see why I must accept them all word for word as facts.
The book of Romans was written in the early spring of AD 57.
Source: The NIV Study Bible
So chronologically speaking the gospels and the Romans were not far apart. In the first place, why believe the gospels anyway, seeing that the earliest one was a good 27 years from the resurrection of Christ? What determines this to be "factual"..... As far as I can see, where you are concern, it goes back to what you, as an individual, is willing to accept or not, isn't it. -
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Yes, you are right! The same way I respect other religion's basis for their belief, and I do not question or comment on that at all. Respectfully, I ask you to do the same thing.Originally posted by shade343:Oh well...I guess I should respect their free will after all...