Walk The Talk
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Do you do what you preach? Do you adhere strictly to the Ten Commandments?
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you tink adhere got use meh?Originally posted by Cheng Tianlan:Do you do what you preach? Do you adhere strictly to the Ten Commandments?
"thou shall not commit adultery" .. you tink guys adhere liao got use meh?
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The meaning of adhere means : To remain devoted to or be in support of something. Since you adhere to it, it means you do not do it.Originally posted by Icemoon:you tink adhere got use meh?
"thou shall not commit adultery" .. you tink guys adhere liao got use meh? -
Why do i see weird or extremely vague threads these days.
I don't understand the post...
Or is it just myself that's feeling this way?
Cheers -
Flame bait?
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very much like it,Originally posted by sillyme:Flame bait? -
how can guys dun commit adultery??Originally posted by photo_seeker:The meaning of adhere means : To remain devoted to or be in support of something. Since you adhere to it, it means you do not do it.
I think some of you don't understand the Christian perspective of the 10 commandments - the laws were given to show our sinful nature. So follow for what? We should learn to live under grace. -
If you say that guys will confirm commit adultery, you don't seem to be giving much respect to the many devoted family men out there.Originally posted by Icemoon:how can guys dun commit adultery??
I think some of you don't understand the Christian perspective of the 10 commandments - the laws were given to show our sinful nature. So follow for what? We should learn to live under grace.
If you live under grace, one will have no problem following the rules. Ok, you are correct to say that the laws reflect our sinful nature. But then rules are not meant to be broken. -
The Lord set super high standard for the adultery commandment. How many devoted men can proclaim "I'm not guilty of even spiritual adultery"?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If you say that guys will confirm commit adultery, you don't seem to be giving much respect to the many devoted family men out there.
If you live under grace, one will have no problem following the rules. Ok, you are correct to say that the laws reflect our sinful nature. But then rules are not meant to be broken.
True .. rules are not meant to be broken. But we still break them, sometimes uncontrollably. -
That reminds me of Antinomianism? Are you practising that?Originally posted by Icemoon:how can guys dun commit adultery??
I think some of you don't understand the Christian perspective of the 10 commandments - the laws were given to show our sinful nature. So follow for what? We should learn to live under grace. -
ExcusesOriginally posted by Icemoon:how can guys dun commit adultery??
I think some of you don't understand the Christian perspective of the 10 commandments - the laws were given to show our sinful nature. So follow for what? We should learn to live under grace. -
Well, that's why we have Confession.Originally posted by Icemoon:The Lord set super high standard for the adultery commandment. How many devoted men can proclaim "I'm not guilty of even spiritual adultery"?
True .. rules are not meant to be broken. But we still break them, sometimes uncontrollably. -
Would like to see more of your arguements.Originally posted by Cheng Tianlan:Excuses
I think one word/liner is the least needed in this topic.
Cheers -
What's the fixation on the 10 commandments...????
These are not major tenets of faith in Christianity. No creeds recited in any church pays any scant attention to these commandments.
They were given to the wandering Hebrew who were subjected to years of suffering under the Egyptians for them to start a new life using these as moral parameters.
I take it that the thread starter do not understand practical Christianity a single bit when he wrote what he wrote.
Granted, the commandments are still practical and most of them are also found in one form or another in other religions, eg, adultery, filial piety, greed etc etc.
Practical Christian stems from the love for God and for fellowmen. -
True muslims follow religiously to the 10 commandment send by god to moses..
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maybe.... but we are not talking about Muslims here.....Originally posted by unforge:True muslims follow religiously to the 10 commandment send by god to moses.. -
A very warm welcome to all! It will be indeed a pleasure to get to know all who frequent this forum
Eternal Hope. A place where we look for hope or provide hope. Indeed, my hope is in Christ, Son of God and Giver of Life. I hope that through this forum, we can share how wonderful God has been in our lives.
Also, it would be a place where we can encourage each other and a place to pray for each other
I welcome all, believers and non-believers, to read and contribute to this forum (even topics other than Christianity
>>by bro sillyme -
I mean, ask him to say that to his wife/gf and she'll definitely give him a good lecture on fidelity.Originally posted by M©+square:Would like to see more of your arguements.
I think one word/liner is the least needed in this topic.
Cheers -
Well. Your tpoic is on Ten Commandments i presume?Originally posted by Cheng Tianlan:I mean, ask him to say that to his wife/gf and she'll definitely give him a good lecture on fidelity.
Now am i seeing implications on questioning the credibility of men?
I don't see why does the Ten commandments was drifted to questioning of the sin of adultery from men.
Am i missing something here? -
honestly.. no.
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the law is the law and the law will never be abolished...
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
(Matthew 5:17-1
the whole thing about living under grace and the law is a a loong topic. if the guy who started the thread want to know more, u shld read Romans 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, and also Galatians 3. Paul explains everything.
but if ur too impatient, then ill jus give a brief explanation.
Jesus died to save us, cus Man is incapable of saving himself. Man cannot offer a proper compensation to God for his sins. thus Jesus came to die for our sins and pay for our sins instead of us.
in the new testatment, the apostles explicitly states that good works or abiding by the law CANNOT n WILL not justify us in God's sight. thus, we depend on the sacrifce of Jesus as atonement for our sins. if we couldnt atone for sins b4 Jesus came, then we stilll can't after Jesus died. its in trusting in the sufficiency of His sacrifice and admitting that we are sinners and that nothing that we can do will save us, that we are saved. this is justification by faith, as Paul explains.
and even after we accept Jesus and still sin (not intentionally but because of the weakness of the flesh), we know that with true repentance, Jesus will forgive us of our sins. trying to do good works to "offset" our sins after we accept Jesus is denying that Jesus's sacrifice was enough. Jesus die for our sins - past, present and future. that is living by grace. -
So if we do wrongs, we don't need to pay restitution? Christ's death is not a permit for sinning you know.
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of course not... like i said, Christ died for our sins- past present AND future. but that doesn't mean that we can jus go on sinning like there's no tommorow. BUT God knows that the flesh will continue to fail us and so we will continue to sin. it surely is wrong for us to think: "Christ died for my sins already... that means i can sin in future n its OK!"
that is of course, not ok. that is taking advantage of His sacrifice. y do i say restitution is not necessary but in fact, contradict's God's Word? because no amount of good works that we do to try to "make up" for the sins we commited AFTER we accepted Jesus will satisfy God. lemme quote from a source :
According to the Handbook for Today’s Catholic, page 47, "If you die in the love of God but possess any ‘stains of sin,’ such stains are cleansed away in a purifying process called purgatory. These stains of sin are primarily the temporal punishment due to venial or mortal sins already forgiven but for which sufficient penance was not done during your lifetime."
The Catholic Catechism, paragraph 1030, says that purgatory is for "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."
Among the many doctrines that Catholicism claims to be derived through Sacred Tradition, purgatory is one of the most interesting and puzzling, particularly to a Protestant. In light of the Pauline doctrine of justification by grace through faith, how is it possible that an afterlife cleansing through punishment is necessary for a Christian who has trusted in Jesus to cleanse him from all His sins? Wasn't Jesus' punishment for our transgressions sufficient? DidnÂ’t He take our place in that He suffered our death? It would seem that the words of Christ, "It is finished," (John 19:30) do not mean that the cleansing of our souls was completed on the cross.
Of course, Roman Catholic doctrine states that eternal life is bestowed upon the one who receives baptism (Catechism, par. 1265 - 1266, 1992). It is the stains of the sins committed after baptism and not removed through penance, good works, prayers, the Mass, etc., that are removed in the fires of purgatory (Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47).
In light of the doctrine of justification by faith (Rom. 5:1), where Jesus bore all of our sins, purgatory would seem to have no theologically justifiable right to exist. But the Bible alone is not appealed to by Catholic theologians in support of Purgatory. By far, the main support for Purgatory is found in the Catholic doctrine of Sacred Tradition. Nevertheless, what does the Bible say about justification, punishment, and our sins?
What is justification by faith?
To ‘justify’ means ‘acquit’, ‘declare righteous’, the opposite of ‘condemn’. It means to not be guilty of breaking the Law and to be deemed as righteous by the standard of the Law.
God gave the Law, i.e, the 10 commandments. The Law is a reflection of GodÂ’s character and it is a perfect standard of righteousness which no one can keep. Since no one is able to keep GodÂ’s Law, no one can be justified by the Law (Rom. 3:20). There is, therefore, none righteous (Rom. 3:10-12). This is the problem of all people. We have all broken GodÂ’s Law and are in need of justification, of being declared righteous in GodÂ’s sight. This can only be done through the Messiah, our sin bearer.
Jesus is the one who took our place on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21), and turned away the wrath of God from us (Rom. 5:9) by being a propitiation (1 John 2:2) that turned away the wrath of God. He was punished in our place. Therefore, Jesus was our substitution. The righteous work of Christ is imputed to the believer by grace (Titus 3:7) and through faith (Rom. 5:1). This justification is a legal action on the part of God ‘reckoning’ the believer as having satisfied the Law — all of the Law.
It necessarily follows that to be justified in God’s eyes, is to be fully justified. It is not ‘part’ of the Law that must be satisfied, but all of it. Perfection is the standard. Likewise, it is not ‘part’ of our sins that were born by Christ, but all of them. This justification includes all of the sins of the believer (past, present, and future) or else we could not be justified.
What does the Catholic Catechism Say?
The Catholic Catechism (paragraphs 1990-1992) says, "Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon GodÂ’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals"...."Justification is at the same time the acceptance of GodÂ’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ..." and "...justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy."
Of particular interest is the reference that "justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith." There are many verses in the Bible that deal with baptism and ‘putting on Christ’ (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:1-11). This paper is not intended to discuss the nature of baptism. Nevertheless, I strongly affirm that baptism is a covenant sign for the believer who is already justified by faith and for the children of believers who are under the covenant headship of the family. Baptism is not what justifies a person. Rather,
Justification is a gift by His grace through Jesus (Rom. 3:24)
Justification is by grace (Titus 3:7)
Justification is by faith (Rom. 3:28; 5:1; Gal. 3:24)
Justification is by JesusÂ’ blood (Rom. 5:9).
Justification is in the name of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor. 6:11).
Justification is not equated with baptism, but with grace, faith, and the blood of Jesus.
Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30)
Jesus bore our sins in His body, paid the penalty for them, and died. He said, "It is finished." In Greek, the phrase, "It is finished" is one word, tetelestai. In ancient Greek papyri texts that were receipts for taxes, when a debt was paid in full, the word tetelestai, was written on the document. This meant that the debt had been paid in full. In other words, Jesus had finished the work of atonement. But not only atonement (to make amends, to make right), but also of propitiation (turning away GodÂ’s wrath). He had fully paid the debt invoked by the sinner. There was nothing more to be done... It was finished.
Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in purgatory for sins not ‘covered by baptism’ and not covered by the cross. It is to say that the work of Christ is not finished and that there are things we must do to complete the sacrificial, cleansing work of Christ. This amounts to earning heaven by our good works, albeit, a work of suffering. Additionally, the doctrine of Purgatory implies that a person must atone for his own sins. It implies that the person must do more than what the Law of God requires of him. This is called supererogation.
When Jesus said, "It is finished," all that was necessary in the atonement was concluded and all in Christ were justified. We cannot complete or add to ChristÂ’s work through our suffering. Purgatory is not only unnecessary, but it contradicts GodÂ’s word.
i noe tt source is gg to spark some debate, but im not trying to start a flame war. the source is basing its argument on the Bible which is our golden standard of the Truth. so however u which to see it, its up to u. but ultimately, i hope we all remember to look back to the Word, which is God's infallible Truth.
Cheers
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When a preson gets saved, his perception of things will change, if I may say so, we do not take this forgiveness lightly, it means a lot to us and the majority of us who believe do not see it as a pass to sin at will... in fact it is just the reverse.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:So if we do wrongs, we don't need to pay restitution? Christ's death is not a permit for sinning you know. -
Let us first agree that:
(1) Faith is absolutely necessary for salvation,
(2) We are absolutely commanded by God to do good works.
(3) Your works alone will not save you.
Catholicism does not teach that one is saved by good works apart from wholly unmerited grace from God, or apart from faith or the redeeming work of Jesus Christ. Rather, the Catholic view is that faith and good works are intrinsically and inevitably intertwined, as St. James clearly states ("faith without works is dead"). A person cannot save himself by his own works (i.e., not preceded by God's grace and supernatural assistance).
I believe that faith alone is not sufficient. Faith is not the end of the justification process, but merely the beginning.