Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible.
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you know what?Originally posted by M©+square:no it's not hard.
I've this impression ah heng interprets the bible more literally than the fundamentalist Christians.
Do I sense a strawman? -
I'm Catholic
till today .. I still dunno what's the belief of plo30360.
is he catholic, protestant or other religion or agnostic
.
Eh, Muslim? I wonder which past posts make me appear that way.
I always tot he is a Muslim, given his past topics.
And yeap to that, the sooner the RC wakes up to the illogicality of the bible, hopefully the protestants will wake up their idea too... I have been studying Buddhism and Islam though for these past few years. Maybe some influence unintentionally rubs off.
But coming back to topic; the Catholic church will never claim the Bible is illogical.
The church views the Bible as an infallible source of divine revelation and that it is inerrant in all that it intends to communicate . At the most I wager the Cardinals were trying to say this:
The journalist just framed the story for maximum "sensationalism" using labels like TRUE and UNTRUE and who knows how much of the the truth she "edited".
The Truth of the Bible is not always a literal Truth. Truth can be allegorical and symbolic as well. Not only that certain stories in the Bible can have both literal and allergorical Truths in them.
But again the Pope hasn't commented so its too early to say anything -
Originally posted by HENG@:But the ones who believe in the whole bible being literal have always been the weak minded fools who refuse to think deeper and just accept what they superficially see. Exactly. The bible is riddled with metaphors.
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haha .. no wonder you're always defending the Catholic faith.Originally posted by plo30360:I'm Catholic -
Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 peter 3:15-16)
Opening of this letter:
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
(2 Peter 1:1-2) -
the truth is a very simple thing to understand, u dun have to be a believer to understand it. the truth is that the bible is not 100% accurate, something that a lot of people know, christian or not.Originally posted by Icemoon:I'm impressed. An unbeliever claiming to know the truth and proclaiming the majority of the Christians [he came across] do not.
Btw .. I think Chin Eng still waiting for your eccelstiates (sp?) verse or something? -
thats silly ain't it? u want to force a title of strawman onto me, thats your fault, not mine. I've always said that a lot of things in the bible are written in a very unliteral sense, and that we shouldn't just take it at face value. so how can i interpret it more literally than the fundamentalist christians?Originally posted by Icemoon:you know what?
I've this impression ah heng interprets the bible more literally than the fundamentalist Christians.
Do I sense a strawman?
thats a really weak attempt from u to undermine my position. -
do u want me to tell u how many christians have followed literally the part which says "if thy hand offends, cut it off" or something?Originally posted by Icemoon:You are mistaken. You got the wrong impression. Like I said, if your hypothesis is true (that many xtians read the whole bible literally), then we should have many xtians plucking out their eyes liao. Reality proves otherwise.
come on .. even weak minded superficial christians will not believe literally the "plucking out the eyes" part.
i can remember at least a few news articles which reported people doing that, including a convicted rapist who, after being converted in jail, chopped his own willie off. -
Using your knowledge. how much do you understand?Originally posted by HENG@:the truth is a very simple thing to understand, u dun have to be a believer to understand it. the truth is that the bible is not 100% accurate, something that a lot of people know, christian or not.
If you can understand the truth but do not believe, what else can you prove? -
once again the christians are assuming too muchOriginally posted by OrneryBoy:Using your knowledge. how much do you understand?
If you can understand the truth but do not believe, what else can you prove?
we're not talking about the absolute truth of the universe blah blah. right now 'truth' in this discussion refers to the truth that the bible is not 100% accurate, something which it seems, the catholic church has just admitted. And oh, if there is no 'official edict' u wonder how it made its way to the major papers? the document in question, The Gift of Scripture is a major christian teaching document. i think that counts for a lot, unless u want to tell me that the major Bishops of Ireland, Wales, Scotland n England are in rebellion against the Vatican? I welcome that too u know, Catholism in conflict with itself. -
bah! -
Heard of oxymoron?
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The Catholic Church or the Cardinals for that matter have said nothing of that sort. It is the journalist who has framed the story in that manner.
we're not talking about the absolute truth of the universe blah blah. right now 'truth' in this discussion refers to the truth that the bible is not 100% accurate, something which it seems, the catholic church has just admitted.
And if you are refering to statements such as these:
Then please refer to this:
“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.
No one, of course, even the strictest inerrantist would (a view to which I subscribe) ,would claim that the bible teaches astronomy, but all would claim that the bible is inerrant in all that it intends to communicate.
The only offical edict is this:
And oh, if there is no 'official edict' u wonder how it made its way to the major papers? the document in question, The Gift of Scripture is a major christian teaching document. i think that counts for a lot, unless u want to tell me that the major Bishops of Ireland, Wales, Scotland n England are in rebellion against the Vatican?
As mentioned earlier the journalist(Ruth) has framed the story to appear as if the Cardinals have catgorized certain parts of Scripture as TRUE and UNTRUE.
The Truth of the Bible is not always a literal Truth. Truth can be allegorical and symbolic as well. Not only that certain stories in the Bible can have both literal and allergorical Truths in them. -
soon a new protestant group will re-surface
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You mean new - reformation movement?Originally posted by chronicles:soon a new protestant group will re-surface -
i dun think so. in the case that it does, what are the chances that other protestant groups and the vatican will recognise it?Originally posted by chronicles:soon a new protestant group will re-surface
anyways that brings another Q to mind. What is the vatican's stance on protestant churches? -
You are right when you say some parts are not meant to be taken literally, and they include things such as history.Originally posted by HENG@:its common knowledge that some parts of the bible are inaccurate. nobody is asking u to give up Christianity or anything, just asking u to acknowledge that there are certain parts of the bible not meant to be taken literally. is this so hard for u to do? -
Heresy!
Have the Inquisitors burn their house down!
Burn the house of the Heretics!
They who defiled the book!
BURN BURN BURN~! -
What else?
For those who bothered to read up about the Cathars, for one example, ever how the present doctrine and theology comes about?
Why the holy trinity and not the unitarian view? -
Born Catholic. Left the church.Originally posted by happyharvest:Is Honeybunz a Catholic or Prsyrethrian (sp?)? I remember she said that she is Prsyrethrian, but how come people associate her with Catholic?
Became a Presbyterian (aka a moderate anti-Catholic
SgMacros, dun scold me pls) for more than 7 years.
Then return to the Catholic church till now.
Still think highly of the Presbyterian although somebody is trying to change my mind abt that. (Guess who) -
What made you leave the Catholic church for so long?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Born Catholic. Left the church.
Became a Presbyterian (aka a moderate anti-Catholic SgMacros, dun scold me pls) for more than 7 years.
Then return to the Catholic church till now.
Still think highly of the Presbyterian although somebody is trying to change my mind abt that. (Guess who) -
who? fandango or happyharvest?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Still think highly of the Presbyterian although somebody is trying to change my mind abt that. (Guess who) -
My parents became lapsed. So nobody told me to go to Church.Originally posted by iveco:What made you leave the Catholic church for so long?
Then my own school teacher invited us to go to her church, which is a Presbyterian denomination one.
After that joined my good friend's church, also a Prebyterian one.
Like that lor. Then along the way, I thought Catholic church too old fashion liao. Didn't like. So refused to go back. Preferred churches with a lot of youngsters and more happening. That time my best friend was a Catholic. She kept telling me to join her for Mass and I refused (can't remember the reason).
But after O level, I made my way back to the Catholic Church (nobody told me to do that. I did it out of my decision), after months of attending Mass on my own.
The ironical thing is : I was at the same time very involved in Campus Crusade for Christ...hahaha -
I cannot tell you. Cannot tell, cannot tell.Originally posted by Icemoon:who? fandango or happyharvest?
But it's not happyharvest lah. -
Why should I try to change her mind huh? I'm not a Catholic anyway.Originally posted by Icemoon:who? fandango or happyharvest? 
Even if I am, why would I do that nia?