Once saved always saved.
-
e·go·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zm, g-)Originally posted by Icemoon:huh?
n.
1. The ethical doctrine that morality has its foundations in self-interest.
2. The ethical belief that self-interest is the just and proper motive for all human conduct.
3. Excessive preoccupation with one's own well-being and interests, usually accompanied by an inflated sense of self-importance.
4. Egotism; conceit. See Synonyms at conceit.
Amazing, given the ingenuity and strong will of the Jews. -
I don't see why you can call them eogistic.
Historically, the Jews were one of the first (or were they the first?) to embrace monotheism. -
Pardon the profanity...but..so what, big fark?Originally posted by Icemoon:I don't see why you can call them eogistic.
Historically, the Jews were one of the first (or were they the first?) to embrace monotheism.
Using this logic, let says i create a religion of my own, within the Chinese soil, 5000 years ago, i could also say the Chinese are the chosen people rite, because of the doctrines and dogmas of my faith, and my explaination of how the universe works?
I have never seen other faiths so 'hou lian pi' as to explicitly say they are the chosen people because of their belief. -
why the big reaction? The chinese claimed that their emperors had the mandate of heaven (while the barbarian tribes dun have) and Japanese claim to descend from the Sun goddess. Egoism, as you define it, is everywhere.Originally posted by laurence82:Pardon the profanity...but..so what, big fark?
Using this logic, let says i create a religion of my own, within the Chinese soil, 5000 years ago, i could also say the Chinese are the chosen people rite, because of the doctrines and dogmas of my faith, and my explaination of how the universe works?
I have never seen other faiths so 'hou lian pi' as to explicitly say they are the chosen people because of their belief.
The Jews have their belief. The Buddhists have their belief. The Christians have their belief. Why are you so agitated? If anything, the Jews do not claim to be superior than other races; instead they were shouldered with the weight of the law, just like the Muslims.
For the Jews, it is not so much of God choosing them but them choosing God. It was a covenant. God did not force them to sign the covenant. -
Ello, having a belief, is different from explicitly saying they are superior.Originally posted by Icemoon:why the big reaction? The chinese claimed that their emperors had the mandate of heaven (while the barbarian tribes dun have) and Japanese claim to descend from the Sun goddess. Egoism, as you define it, is everywhere.
The Jews have their belief. The Buddhists have their belief. The Christians have their belief. Why are you so agitated? If anything, the Jews do not claim to be superior than other races; instead they were shouldered with the weight of the law, just like the Muslims.
For the Jews, it is not so much of God choosing them but them choosing God. It was a covenant. God did not force them to sign the covenant.
And which belief, has the level of 'superiority trait' that has created angst between believers and non believers, and even among believers themselves?
Go think abt it. Give you a clue, it lies within evangelism. -
Look. A Muslim have to observe the five pillars, no pork, no gambling and so on.
Someone told me in this forum adherents of other religions have a chance to go heaven too. Wah leow .. you think fair or not?
If Muslims say they are the chosen people (chosen to follow the Koran and Hadith?) .. I think before you scold them eogistic .. learn to respect them first.
The same can be said for the Jews. -
But Muslims or rather Muslim extremists have no other agenda than to blow people up.Originally posted by Icemoon:Look. A Muslim have to observe the five pillars, no pork, no gambling and so on.
Someone told me in this forum adherents of other religions have a chance to go heaven too. Wah leow .. you think fair or not?
If Muslims say they are the chosen people (chosen to follow the Koran and Hadith?) .. I think before you scold them eogistic .. learn to respect them first.
The same can be said for the Jews.
But to say it lies within their sense of superiority within their own belief is not quite there yet, We are ignoring culture, especially the Middle Eastern one and their and the long political history, especially with the Israelis. -
You mean Christianity ah?Originally posted by laurence82:Ello, having a belief, is different from explicitly saying they are superior.
And which belief, has the level of 'superiority trait' that has created angst between believers and non believers, and even among believers themselves?
Go think abt it. Give you a clue, it lies within evangelism.
I don't think Christians should feel they are superior. In fact kudos to them for realizing they are full of sins and no amount of good works can erase the sins in God's eyes.
We are all sinners in the hand of an angry God. -
I think god is also egoistic.Originally posted by Icemoon:You mean Christianity ah?
I don't think Christians should feel they are superior. In fact kudos to them for realizing they are full of sins and no amount of good works can erase the sins in God's eyes.
We are all sinners in the hand of an angry God. -
They paid with their own lives. Justice has been served.Originally posted by laurence82:But Muslims or rather Muslim extremists have no other agenda than to blow people up.
Better than you drop an atomic bomb and still can sit comfortably in the White House. -
He is the one and only God. Of course He is always right mah.Originally posted by laurence82:I think god is also egoistic. -
Well, you got to understand the psychology of the extremists. They want to die. They believe in dying for their cause.Originally posted by Icemoon:They paid with their own lives. Justice has been served.
Better than you drop an atomic bomb and still can sit comfortably in the White House.
Justice have not been served.
-
lol .. so if they didn't manage to die .. we will just imprison them and make them sheng bu ru si?Originally posted by laurence82:Well, you got to understand the psychology of the extremists. They want to die. They believe in dying for their cause.
Justice have not been served. -
Doctrine is a man made term for the word: Belief within the authority of men. Salvation is given through the Grace of God.
man's authority and God's Gift - it just doesnt measure up. it doesnt fail to bring an awe to me to think of how can we even try to "measure" salvation by a concept of doctrine ?
within Scripture - once we accepted Christ in our life - the journey has just begun. This journey is not said in the Bible to be of no worries, no pain, no sins....On the contrary, Jesus mentioned that bearing of the Cross is tough in a world sense ! Question is...are we willing ? What is the cost of discipleship ? Salvation just doesnt "stop" there doesnt it ?
Yes..all sins are fogiven when we accept Christ - in God's Kingdom this means past, present and future sins. Mark 3: 22, shed some light in this and also the teaching of the "unpardonable sin". This unpardonable sin actually refers to a disassociation with the Holy Spirit. Fellow Christians just need to ask ourselves (and not judge others) - is even such disassocations possible ? Are we belittling what God can do to our lives ? Who are we to "see" or to "judge" that fellow Christians are "falling" etc etc etc.
But of course, if we intentionally sin again and again - then we only have ourselves to question between us and God - God will then ask - why are you flogging my Son again and again ? i was brought to a parable of such an action, where a mother flogged her son for continous acts of stealing and cry each time for the flog. Her son ask her why the crying, i am in pain, not you. I wonder then, if we are sometimes like this thieving son. -
Hmmm.Originally posted by klydeer:Doctrine is a man made term for the word: Belief within the authority of men. Salvation is given through the Grace of God.
man's authority and God's Gift - it just doesnt measure up. it doesnt fail to bring an awe to me to think of how can we even try to "measure" salvation by a concept of doctrine ?
within Scripture - once we accepted Christ in our life - the journey has just begun. This journey is not said in the Bible to be of no worries, no pain, no sins....On the contrary, Jesus mentioned that bearing of the Cross is tough in a world sense ! Question is...are we willing ? What is the cost of discipleship ? Salvation just doesnt "stop" there doesnt it ?
Yes..all sins are fogiven when we accept Christ - in God's Kingdom this means past, present and future sins. Mark 3: 22, shed some light in this and also the teaching of the "unpardonable sin". This unpardonable sin actually refers to a disassociation with the Holy Spirit. Fellow Christians just need to ask ourselves (and not judge others) - is even such disassocations possible ? Are we belittling what God can do to our lives ? Who are we to "see" or to "judge" that fellow Christians are "falling" etc etc etc.
But of course, if we intentionally sin again and again - then we only have ourselves to question between us and God - God will then ask - why are you flogging my Son again and again ? i was brought to a parable of such an action, where a mother flogged her son for continous acts of stealing and cry each time for the flog. Her son ask her why the crying, i am in pain, not you. I wonder then, if we are sometimes like this thieving son. -
hmm if u sae so, if god do the wrong thing, den he is aso right?Originally posted by Icemoon:He is the one and only God. Of course He is always right mah. -
hmm hmm hmmOriginally posted by RaTtY81:hmm if u sae so, if god do the wrong thing, den he is aso right? -
I have always wondered why God only chose to "speak" to selected people in the middle East. How about the rest of the people in the world? Don't they matter to God?Originally posted by sgdiehard:As for all non Jews, nothing is said about God speaking to them in any way, until the gospel was preached to the gentile by Paul. Tribes living around the red sea worshipped their own God and idols, like the Baals, the egyptians, the indians had their own gods. There were much records about the ancient chinese worshipping the heaven but nothing is heard about God speaking to them. So I believe the non jews, pin fan ren or not, were guided by their own conscience, their cultures and traditions, and their religions, not by God, the creator of the heaven and the earth. -
If the bible is right that God is a jealous God and can get angry, then I think God's not perfect either. Jealousy and anger are negative behavioural traits which can lead one to commit sin.
Believing in one's religion does not give one the right to show disrespect and intolerance towards other religions. It does not mean that you believe strongly in your God/religion that everyone has to do so too. Each and every individual has his/her right to believe in any religion or none at all. Who has the right to say that he/she is right and everyone is wrong? Can you guarantee that you're right? What if you're not? For example, many Christians believe that as a Christian, they will definitely go to heaven while non-believers will go straight to hell. Is that guaranteed? What if you don't end up in heaven despite being a Christian? Is this the reason why you are a Christian - so that you can go to heaven and not burn in hell?
No offence to anyone at all but it's fodder for thought. -
I'm interested to know from you.Originally posted by surfbabe:If the bible is right that God is a jealous God and can get angry, then I think God's not perfect either. Jealousy and anger are negative behavioural traits which can lead one to commit sin.
Believing in one's religion does not give one the right to show disrespect and intolerance towards other religions. It does not mean that you believe strongly in your God/religion that everyone has to do so too. Each and every individual has his/her right to believe in any religion or none at all. Who has the right to say that he/she is right and everyone is wrong? Can you guarantee that you're right? What if you're not? For example, many Christians believe that as a Christian, they will definitely go to heaven while non-believers will go straight to hell. Is that guaranteed? What if you don't end up in heaven despite being a Christian? Is this the reason why you are a Christian - so that you can go to heaven and not burn in hell?
No offence to anyone at all but it's fodder for thought.
What do you think is right in your perspective?
Cheers -
My remarks in the following reply may be quite harsh and direct, but please bear in mind that it is not personally directed at you but just to challenge your thinking and belief.
Is this the real reason why you are a Christian - to be saved and have a "guaranteed" place in heaven? If Christianity does not promise salvation and entry to heaven, and instead promotes spiritual peace, harmony and good works like Buddhism, will you "subscribe" to it?Originally posted by breytonhartge:What is the point of being a Christian if we do not then have that assurance that we are saved. It is the whole crux of Jesus dying on the cross for our salvation!That is why we believe in Him and therefore have this very very strong assurance of our salvation!
I've always wondered about this. If a person is very faithful to God but mean to everyone else and doesn't perform good works. Would u like this guy to be your neighbour in heaven? Do u think it's fair if God favours such a person but turns away someone else is many times better and nicer than this fellow?Jesus is the only way to God, hence to Heaven. We are saved by Grace and not works... works cannot save you....Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
This is the meaning of religion:To answer the question, no i do not think that it is grossly unfair to non-christians who have led a fair life... if these people have heard the gospel and have rejected it, they have already been given the choice and they have chosen not to believe, if you reject Jesus, He will also reject you before the Father.... if you think that works can save you, then you are grossly mistaken. That is why we are saved by grace... for a non-christian to be saved by works, he must keep the full extent of the law.... perfectly. Unless he can, he will definitely not be saved because all non-christians will be judged according to the law.... and none of us are sinless.[/quote]
Well, if God is fair, he should look closely to understand why the non-Christian rejected the gospel and did not convert. If the reason is valid, possibly because of bad examples set by some Christians, should God just turn him/her away?
I believe that, regardless of your religion, you will still have to abide by the ten commandments. In fact, it is said that Christians will be judged more harshly than non-Christians because they are expected to be fully aware of the "laws of sin". So it is advisable not to assume preferential treatment because of Christian membership.Christians will also stand before the judgement throne, but because we have accepted Jesus as our saviour, the things recorded against us will be blotted out...
This is what some Christians think and it is a dangerous thought. By virtue of such a belief, some Christians knowingly commit sins, then confess their sins and assume they will still go to heaven because they're saved as a Christian. How very wrong.[quote]One thing I have to make clear to you is that Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with GOD.THE WHOLE CRUX ABOUT BELIEVING IN JESUS IS THE GUARANTEE THAT WE WILL BE IN HEAVEN. If you think that this is not the way for you, you can choose to disagree, but for any Christian, we have this assurance because we believe! Wouldn't you want that kind of assurance?
- Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
- A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
- The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
- A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
- A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Doesn't Christianity fit the meaning of religion?
Yes, who wouldn't like to be assured a place in heaven. But I'm skeptical - is there such a place, how could everyone who's Christian go to heaven despite all our sins just cos Jesus died for us, who can prove that every Christian will end up in heaven.
To be a Christian so as to be saved and go to heaven, is the wrong reason to believe in Christianity. The love for God or whoever He/She is, should not be based on what He/She can give you. If so, should you realise one day that He/She cannot or did not give you what you expected from Him/Her, you would lose faith in Him. That is precisely how former Christians fell away from Christianity, because they did not get what they prayed for. -
Topic drifted...........far far away
-
Which context are you referring to in the above question?Originally posted by M©+square:I'm interested to know from you.
What do you think is right in your perspective?
If you are referring to my statement about not right to show disrespect and intolerance to other religions, my view is that regardless of one's religion, one should respect other religions. Do not speak against other religions nor show contempt. I know of friends who show their undisguised contempt when they encounter Buddhist or Taoist prayer rites.
Just take smoking for example. If you hate smoke, you can choose to walk away from smokers. Or encourage them to quit by telling them that smoking is bad for their health. But essentially it's up to them to decide. Do you have the right to screw up your face and scold them? If they blow the smoke in your direction and your health is affected, you can tell them nicely to smoke elsewhere.
What I'm trying to say is - don't expect everyone to believe in what you believe in. And despise those who don't share your belief. -
Ok all is well and fair.Originally posted by surfbabe:Which context are you referring to in the above question?
If you are referring to my statement about not right to show disrespect and intolerance to other religions, my view is that regardless of one's religion, one should respect other religions. Do not speak against other religions nor show contempt. I know of friends who show their undisguised contempt when they encounter Buddhist or Taoist prayer rites.
Just take smoking for example. If you hate smoke, you can choose to walk away from smokers. Or encourage them to quit by telling them that smoking is bad for their health. But essentially it's up to them to decide. Do you have the right to screw up your face and scold them? If they blow the smoke in your direction and your health is affected, you can tell them nicely to smoke elsewhere.
What I'm trying to say is - don't expect everyone to believe in what you believe in. And despise those who don't share your belief.
To continue from here. So what is your opinion on Christian belief and Heaven?
cheers -
Stick to topic please.