Once saved always saved.
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hmmmm....we need to define cleary the topic for this thread then a systematic approach..
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Someone can write a research paper on the topic.
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Hur....siao....Originally posted by Icemoon:Someone can write a research paper on the topic. -
Originally posted by NT2:hmmmm....we need to define cleary the topic for this thread then a systematic approach..
yeah -
I got one doubt. Now Christian got Holy Spirit to guide us. Before Jesus came, Who guide people who believe in God? Is the Holy Spirit guiding them too? Any expert can answer....Originally posted by sgdiehard:Now we fight the battle with help of the Holy Spirit in us. Christians should continue to pray for His forgiveness but we should not worry that our salvation would disappear. -
Woah!!!!!Originally posted by happyharvest:I got one doubt. Now Christian got Holy Spirit to guide us. Before Jesus came, Who guide people who believe in God? Is the Holy Spirit guiding them too? Any expert can answer....
Another great debate!
MC sits down and watch. *Popcorn sweetened please!*
Cheers -
Is EH only for debate??Originally posted by M©+square:Corrected.
The respond to that question is reasonable.
Apologies.
But if you're quoting a verse. Be sure of it. 'and I only said maybe... i did not say a definite.' - Like JTB. Using this may just seem like you're unsure. Not a good round for debate.
Back to the topic. If the parable stands - then how would Once Saved Always Saved applies?
Cheers
Maybe the topic of this thread calls for debate.... -
u r absolutely right! there is a need to balance and there are a lot of imbalances in many churches. But what is the right balance, what are the lacking components, what come first? these, more often than not, are the usual dispute, sigh....how?Originally posted by M©+square:IMO, a believer should have a sound balance of 'Passion' and 'knowledge of the Word and God' - it could be doctrine/theology/scriptures.
A believer should be careful of themselves and watchful over themselves if they've 'over - displayed or imposed' their faith onto their fellow believers. If a believer happened to misplace that 'passion of faith' and got their actions into undesired result.
Passion is so powerful, to have a believer to believe what he's doing is right even though he might have wandered off track.
Knowledge is so powerful, that it'll lead a believer to believe himself to know all.
These two need to compliment each other, to have sound Knowledge and also need fervent passion to fuel the Walk with God.
This i believe is on Men's part to work it out. Holy Spirit will impart whatever which he should and he wants.
Too little? "what would Jesus think, what would Jesus do" and "what would glorify God."
- Too much of these will lead to romanticism/emotionalism - which is evident in most Charismatic movements(church). But of course, one should reflect him/herself upon the word and the glory of God.
Would you be surprise if i tell you that, there are much more Passionate Christians around compared to Knowledgeable(doctrined based) Christians around?
Passion indeed has been misplaced.
Why? Personal Answer - No sound knowledge of the word.
Soundness and Balance and Holy Spirit and Scripture are the keywords.
Cheers
The balance between Efficiency and Love in ministries: how much should we accommodate those who are slow and not so capable?
The balance between old traditions and new methods: hymns and comtemporary music, fellowships and cell groups, ...
The balance between feeling God and knowing God? ( the charismatic and orthodox?)
The balance between pastoral ministry and lay leaders ministry: employ more pastors or "every believer is a priest"? compromise somewhere?
The balance between those who teach/preach and those who mentor?
The balance between the call to serve and the readiness to serve? do we get involved in ministries because we believe we are ready or is there a touch of heart by the Holy Spirit, or the calling?
The list can go on, and we are not choosing one or the other, between the right and wrong but are finding a balance, and the right balance differs from church to church.
Follow Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church you just need to form a group, look for the vision, and you move on; those who disagree are "oppositions" you need to "handle".
Follow Henry Blackaby's Experiencing God you will need to have unanimous agreement because it is the same God who speak to us all and God will not speak different thing to different ppl about the same thing in the same church.
How?? It is very tiring if you really want to know what is right and what is acceptable, that is why I often ask "what would Jesus do?"
Indeed, "there are much more Passionate Christians around compared to Knowledgeable(doctrined based) Christians around". I attribute this to the lack of systmatic teaching (in Sunday School), too much sharing (in cell group), too little time for the scripture, too much emphasis on "spiritual" experience. Let me be a bit daring, Words of God are often used for entertaining (so more ppl will come) than "for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." (scared chase away ppl) Thats only my opinion.
the question is, how long does the passion last?
cheers. -
I thought being angry is not a sin. I thought angryness may cause you to sin. In the bible, Jesus was angry over some things but never sin. So I think being angry is not a sin until that emotion causes you to really sin.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Let's face it, we are all living in sin, like it or not.
I had an evil though today - sin,
I got angry with my boss - sin,
I over-ate - sin.
Again - it is not about sin, it's about rejection of God.
Over-ate sin mah? Did you mean being greedy? -
Ah. The practicalities of being a Christian worship in Church, tending CG or attending CGs.Originally posted by sgdiehard:u r absolutely right! there is a need to balance and there are a lot of imbalances in many churches. But what is the right balance, what are the lacking components, what come first? these, more often than not, are the usual dispute, sigh....how?
The balance between Efficiency and Love in ministries: how much should we accommodate those who are slow and not so capable?
The balance between old traditions and new methods: hymns and comtemporary music, fellowships and cell groups, ...
The balance between feeling God and knowing God? ( the charismatic and orthodox?)
The balance between pastoral ministry and lay leaders ministry: employ more pastors or "every believer is a priest"? compromise somewhere?
The balance between those who teach/preach and those who mentor?
The balance between the call to serve and the readiness to serve? do we get involved in ministries because we believe we are ready or is there a touch of heart by the Holy Spirit, or the calling?
The list can go on, and we are not choosing one or the other, between the right and wrong but are finding a balance, and the right balance differs from church to church.
Follow Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church you just need to form a group, look for the vision, and you move on; those who disagree are "oppositions" you need to "handle".
Follow Henry Blackaby's Experiencing God you will need to have unanimous agreement because it is the same God who speak to us all and God will not speak different thing to different ppl about the same thing in the same church.
How?? It is very tiring if you really want to know what is right and what is acceptable, that is why I often ask "what would Jesus do?"
Indeed, "there are much more Passionate Christians around compared to Knowledgeable(doctrined based) Christians around". I attribute this to the lack of systmatic teaching (in Sunday School), too much sharing (in cell group), too little time for the scripture, too much emphasis on "spiritual" experience. Let me be a bit daring, Words of God are often used for entertaining (so more ppl will come) than "for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." (scared chase away ppl) Thats only my opinion.
the question is, how long does the passion last?
cheers.
All those which you've mentioned, only you can handle through your own experience. And through that, your faith is put to test and moulded into practicals of Christian Living.
The mentioned will always be in Church until revival comes upon church. I believe only revival can break theories and barriers and finite thoughts.
In fact there is not one church which have the perfect system and teachings. There will always be imbalance.
Those people who thinks their church is good and all doing well could very be
- Macro people
- Lukewarm Church goers(unknowingly)
- Mind your own business kind
- Blind followers
- Just for the sake of going to church
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Your questions are very practical based and spirit taught.
Sorry, unable to answer those qns one by one.
I encourage you to read up authors like Oswald Chambers and A.W Tozer on Christian living.
Classics hardly go wrong.
John Bevere said there are two kinds of Passion: Godly and man inspired passion. The chapter is very long, i'll type it out if i've got time.
Both passion can last very long. But ask for Passion from the One on High.
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I've read Purpose Driven Church - i suppose you're one of the leaders in your church.
It's rather task orientated. Church orientated.
Whereas Experiencing God, i have not read it. Flipped thru though.
It's more on personal relationship with God.
So the agenda of these two books are different.
How to get these two books which one talks about a community and other talks about personal life to reconcile?
If you can...teach me ok?
Cheers -
Where can I find these books?Originally posted by M©+square:I encourage you to read up authors like Oswald Chambers and A.W Tozer on Christian living.
Classics hardly go wrong.
John Bevere said there are two kinds of Passion: Godly and man inspired passion. The chapter is very long, i'll type it out if i've got time.
Thanks and regards -
http://www.myutmost.org/ -Originally posted by sgdiehard:Where can I find these books?
Thanks and regards
Oswald Chambers (1874-1917) was a Scottish minister and teacher whose teachings on the life of faith and abandonment to God have endured to this day.
This daily devotional is a collection of his teachings compiled by his wife into a daily devotional format. It's presented here in the original English. His wife's comments may be found in the Foreword.
We publish this with the prayer that Oswald Chambers' teachings will help you grow in your walk with Christ.
http://www.cmalliance.org/devotions/tozer/tozer.jsp - A.W. Tozer
You can buy these devotional And book by the mentioned authors at Major Christian bookstores. -
Originally posted by happyharvest:I thought being angry is not a sin. I thought angryness may cause you to sin. In the bible, Jesus was angry over some things but never sin. So I think being angry is not a sin until that emotion causes you to really sin.
Over-ate sin mah? Did you mean being greedy? I was being ridiculous.... I have heard people anything and everything as sin..... I have even heard of righteous anger of Jesus, whereas us worldly folks are not capable of righteous anger. -
Still waiting for expert of the expert to answer my doubt leh....Originally posted by happyharvest:I got one doubt. Now Christian got Holy Spirit to guide us. Before Jesus came, Who guide people who believe in God? Is the Holy Spirit guiding them too? Any expert can answer.... -
Hi M©+square, thanks for the link, and the info.
Cheers. -
I am no expert. According to the Bible, God spoke to ppl like Adam and Abraham and Moses direct, then He spoke through prophets and judges, then Jesus came, then came the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended into heaven.Originally posted by happyharvest:Still waiting for expert of the expert to answer my doubt leh.... -
I am no expert but here's my two cents worth....Originally posted by happyharvest:Still waiting for expert of the expert to answer my doubt leh....
Judges and Prophets..... -
What about those "pin fan ren"?Originally posted by sgdiehard:I am no expert. According to the Bible, God spoke to ppl like Adam and Abraham and Moses direct, then He spoke through prophets and judges, then Jesus came, then came the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended into heaven. -
The Bible says that God created human but chose the Isrealites, and since then He revealed Himself only to Isrealites. So the "pin fan ren" among the Jews heard the words of God from the prophets and judges. Of course the commandments of God, the great things God had done were passed down in the jewish families from generation to generation.Originally posted by happyharvest:What about those "pin fan ren"?
As for all non Jews, nothing is said about God speaking to them in any way, until the gospel was preached to the gentile by Paul. Tribes living around the red sea worshipped their own God and idols, like the Baals, the egyptians, the indians had their own gods. There were much records about the ancient chinese worshipping the heaven but nothing is heard about God speaking to them. So I believe the non jews, pin fan ren or not, were guided by their own conscience, their cultures and traditions, and their religions, not by God, the creator of the heaven and the earth.
That is the little I know and I may be wrong. Will be glad to hear other views. -
I remember this verse:Originally posted by sgdiehard:The Bible says that God created human but chose the Isrealites, and since then He revealed Himself only to Isrealites. So the "pin fan ren" among the Jews heard the words of God from the prophets and judges. Of course the commandments of God, the great things God had done were passed down in the jewish families from generation to generation.
As for all non Jews, nothing is said about God speaking to them in any way, until the gospel was preached to the gentile by Paul. Tribes living around the red sea worshipped their own God and idols, like the Baals, the egyptians, the indians had their own gods. There were much records about the ancient chinese worshipping the heaven but nothing is heard about God speaking to them. So I believe the non jews, pin fan ren or not, were guided by their own conscience, their cultures and traditions, and their religions, not by God, the creator of the heaven and the earth.
That is the little I know and I may be wrong. Will be glad to hear other views.
In the past, he let all nations go their own way. (Acts 14:16)
Maybe from this verse, other views may be generated?
Hope to hear more views. -
I think the ancestors of those pin fan ren have truely experienced God before the confusion of languages and dispersion of human being around the world. Therefore, they passed down to the next generation about God.... and ...along the way might have some distortion of the original version ba,........Originally posted by sgdiehard:So I believe the non jews, pin fan ren or not, were guided by their own conscience, their cultures and traditions, and their religions, not by God, the creator of the heaven and the earth.
My opinion.
Regards -
Sikhism is also a faith that believes in monotheistic god. And sheesh to the part on pin fan ren and chosen people.
Judaism and christianity is also a product of the israelites own culture and traditions. I believe, in terms of many aspects, Chinese people are mroe ikely to tbe the chosen the people, with 5000 years of history and a very strong culture. -
God revealed Himself to many nations but only the Hebrews then were ready to receive Him.Originally posted by laurence82:Judaism and christianity is also a product of the israelites own culture and traditions. I believe, in terms of many aspects, Chinese people are mroe ikely to tbe the chosen the people, with 5000 years of history and a very strong culture.
That's why they became the chosen people.
Once again, another insight from the treasury of Jewish wisdom. -
That egoism.Originally posted by Icemoon:God revealed Himself to many nations but only the Hebrews then were ready to receive Him.
That's why they became the chosen people.
Once again, another insight from the treasury of Jewish wisdom. -
huh?Originally posted by laurence82:That egoism.