Do you know Christians can go to hell?
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Yes, do you know Christians can go to hell? I believe much of the war generated here b/w me & certain other ppl r bcos of what unpleasant experiences we had w Christians & the severe rejection we faced in church. Let me share some of my experiences.
One reason why i backslided last time was i see so much hypocrisy & politics in church, from gossip mongers to backstabbers. Name any kind of office politics & u have them in church politics. Of course, there r other personal reasons w/c r not convenient to share here. Ppl just ignored me in church. Pastors even counsellors sent me here & there, resulting in much confusion & anger. Worse in megachurches. They dont even heck care me. They want ppl to join cell grps but i just couldn't fit in. Christians & non christians alike have labelled me antisocial, proud, gay, insane, faithless, uncircumcised in heart & ear, stubborn, etc etc. & the list goes on forever.
But there's another side to church. When i was in hospital, Christians visited me even pastors. Some Christians & pastors really cared by bringing me to church & prayer. I know who r the real ones & who r my true friends. But sometimes even real frens can betray us. Even pastors & leaders! Yes, Amen?
Even father & mother can forsake us, but God will never forsake me. Nobody not even satan can snatch me from Jesus' hand. Neither death nor life, nor angels nor demons, nor things present, nor things to come, nor persecution, nor famine, nor distress, nor hunger, nor pain, nor sorrow, nor hypocrites, nor govt, nor corrupted ppl, nor rich men, nor poor men, nor unfair rejection, nor unkind words, nor stupid morons, nor crazy fanatics, nor unreasonable bigots, nor pride, nor oppressors, nor insane ppl, nor politicians, nor untrue media reports, nor slanderers, nor liars, nor homos, nor myself will be able to separate me from the love of God w/c is in Christ Jesus my Lord. 
Yes, do u know Christians can go to hell? What did Jesus say? If we renounce Him in front of men, He will renounce us in front of God! No pt twisting the message of grace. God knows all our secret thots. His eye searches the hearts of all humans. He knows whether we did something for ourselves, for others or for Jesus. He knows the rejection we r feeling now as He bottles up our tears. Even God's anointed like King Saul can betray God & persecute Christians like King David. So learn from David's story in the Psalms, Chronicles, Kings etc. Even brothers in Christ like Rueben, Judah, Simeon, Asher, Gad, Ephraim, Dan, Levi, etc can betray a brother like Joseph. But God meant it for good & God will use all the betrayed brothers & sisters to help these betrayers. God will raise up Davids & Josephs to estab His Kingdom & help the world.
Are you feeling lonely, rejected, hateful, bitter, depressed, sick, unloved, poor, sinful, angry, revengeful, mad, jealous, envious, unfair etc right now? Go to Jesus in prayer. Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God & He will exalt u in due time. But not to take revenge bcos vengeance belongs to God alone. He will vindicate. He will speak up with His thunderous voice & all creation will bow down b4 Him. The mountains melt like wax & the hills are leveled in His presence. God is laughing from heaven & waiting to put His enemies permanently under His footstool. Why do the gentiles rage & the nations plot in vain? They set a snare to snare God's ppl but they themselves will fall into the trap & perish. All glory & thanks & praise to God who is from everlasting to everlasting & there is none besides Him! Hallelujah! Maranatha! Grace & mercy & truth be with you all! In Jesus' name, Amen. Come Lord Jesus. Amen. It is done! -
lol, u're such a fanatical zealot... i'm so glad u aren't a muslim. or else...
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JTB, I think you are treading on dangerous theological grounds here!Originally posted by John The Baptist:Yes, do u know Christians can go to hell? What did Jesus say? If we renounce Him in front of men, He will renounce us in front of God! No pt twisting the message of grace. God knows all our secret thots. His eye searches the hearts of all humans. He knows whether we did something for ourselves, for others or for Jesus. He knows the rejection we r feeling now as He bottles up our tears. Even God's anointed like King Saul can betray God & persecute Christians like King David. So learn from David's story in the Psalms, Chronicles, Kings etc. Even brothers in Christ like Rueben, Judah, Simeon, Asher, Gad, Ephraim, Dan, Levi, etc can betray a brother like Joseph. But God meant it for good & God will use all the betrayed brothers & sisters to help these betrayers. God will raise up Davids & Josephs to estab His Kingdom & help the world.
You own signature states that Christians DO NOT GO TO HELL. People who rejects Jesus ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, even though they may be once our brethren.
I don't know what you mean about being "betrayed"? Do I sense that you have issues with relationship with people? May I ask what your background is: stuff like age group, working/student etc? While on the surface of your posts talks a lot about some odd theological interpretation, the under layer of the content is about your emotional turmoils. It is indeed troubling...... -
JTB,
Peace be unto u. Do not judge or be judge. Faith w/out good works is dead. Please do not persecute our fellow brothers & sisters in Christ. Let the individual be answerable to God. We should be tolerant to our fellow mankind.
(KJV)Titus 3:
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometime foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -
JTB, pouring out your sorrow on a forum like this will not help you. you should find somebody to talk to, personally, face to face. Find another church pastor, if you do not trust your current pastors. May be go to a smaller church where the pastors are closer to the ppl.
Your post, especially the title, is very misleading and is casting the salvation of Jesus in doubt, you might be doing more harm here then you think.
Take time to pray, talk to a pastor and may be don't write anymore for the time being. -
We all are to be judged afterall. Why judge who is right;who is wrong;who go heaven;who do hell .... ? Just do the work we are called to do lo. I'm trying to learn it.
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The one thing i could never understand is that
A person who commit sins after sins regularly but accept jesus as his god and proclaims himself/herself as a christian but would still continue to commit sins after sins.According to christainty,he would still go to heaven just because he accepted Christ.I find that so hypocritical. -
We commit sins consciously but sometimes unconsciously. As Christians, our sins are forgiven when we accept Christ as our personal saviour. We have to work at our rewards (which is different from salvation) after that. When we sin and realise it, ask for forgiveness and attempt not to commit the sin again, sometimes we are successful sometimes we are not.Originally posted by GenX:The one thing i could never understand is that
A person who commit sins after sins regularly but accept jesus as his god and proclaims himself/herself as a christian but would still continue to commit sins after sins.According to christainty,he would still go to heaven just because he accepted Christ.I find that so hypocritical. -
so even if the person cannot succeed to stop commiting the sins but he had already accepted christ.He will still go to heaven right?Originally posted by Chin Eng:We commit sins consciously but sometimes unconsciously. As Christians, our sins are forgiven when we accept Christ as our personal saviour. We have to work at our rewards (which is different from salvation) after that. When we sin and realise it, ask for forgiveness and attempt not to commit the sin again, sometimes we are successful sometimes we are not.
I knew of some christians who just because of it use it as an excuse to do all kinda funny stuff and then will just say that they will still go to heaven just because they had already accepted christ.And these are the people who will go around saying other people who even if these people behave well but just did not accept jesus will go to hell.Such hypocrites. -
My answer to you is that God knows your heart - on the assumption that you believe God exist and that you acknowledge Jesus to be your Saviour. This arguement ends if you DO NOT accept this concept.Originally posted by GenX:so even if the person cannot succeed to stop commiting the sins but he had already accepted christ.He will still go to heaven right?
I knew of some christians who just because of it use it as an excuse to do all kinda funny stuff and then will just say that they will still go to heaven just because they had already accepted christ.And these are the people who will go around saying other people who even if these people behave well but just did not accept jesus will go to hell.Such hypocrites.
If God knows your heart and is aware that you have tried all you can, you will receive forgiveness. It's in the attitude of the individual.
And you are right.... there are plenty of hypocrites around. Occasionally it may also be me..... -
Sorry i dont mean to judge as i always said leave to God to judge even for non believers bcos all the books & the book of Life will be opened at the great white throne. I guess (I guess only pls) those who havent heard of gospel will be judged fairly according to their conscience as in Romans 2:11-16. Pls God is fair. OT has OT convenant. NT has NT covenant. & ppl have a conscience whether they heard gospel or not. Sorry this is not doctrine just my guess. Pls dont shoot me & non christian pls dont take this as excuse not to accept Jesus as Lord & Saviour if u heard gospel already. Sorry for being emotional bcos really hurt. God bless u.Originally posted by babyys:JTB,
Peace be unto u. Do not judge or be judge. Faith w/out good works is dead. Please do not persecute our fellow brothers & sisters in Christ. Let the individual be answerable to God. We should be tolerant to our fellow mankind.
(KJV)Titus 3:
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometime foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -
Christians can go to hell? For once I agree with him on this point.
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Originally posted by John The Baptist:Sorry i dont mean to judge as i always said leave to God to judge even for non believers bcos all the books & the book of Life will be opened at the great white throne. I guess (I guess only pls) those who havent heard of gospel will be judged fairly according to their conscience as in Romans 2:11-16. Pls God is fair. OT has OT convenant. NT has NT covenant. & ppl have a conscience whether they heard gospel or not. Sorry this is not doctrine just my guess. Pls dont shoot me & non christian pls dont take this as excuse not to accept Jesus as Lord & Saviour if u heard gospel already. Sorry for being emotional bcos really hurt. God bless u.
kong see mee?????? 
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Hey CE, go easy on JTB...Originally posted by Chin Eng: kong see mee?????? 
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i second that
i had no clue what he is writing... -
is he under some delusions?
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Lazy to read all those stuffs on the first thread, but anyways, when a christian renounce Christ, he will go hell loh....
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go very easy already..... I still don't understand what's he writing here.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Hey CE, go easy on JTB...
One of Stephen Covey's 7 Habits: Seek first to understand.
I am trying to understand but not succeeding. Seems like I am not the only one here. How to take him seriously???? -
hi JTB,
perhaps you would like to read:
Ecclesiastes 7:8-10 =) -
I mean it's great! Thanks. I was reading further & it really spoke to me. I think I should start reading Eccles. esp chapter 7. I mean thank God, great book by Solomon. He wrote here in Ecc. 8:16-17-"When i applied my heart to know wisdom & to see the business that is done on earth, even though one sees no sleep day or night, then i saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For tho a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, tho a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it."Originally posted by klydeer:hi JTB,
perhaps you would like to read:
Ecclesiastes 7:8-10 =)
Hallelujah! Praise God & His infinite wisdom & power! All glory to God alone! All honour & power to God alone, for He alone is wise & holy! May God forgive me. I repent in dust & ashes & cover my mouth. All creation must bow before Him & at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow & every tongue confess, of things in heaven, of things on earth & under the earth, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! I worship You God! You are worthy to be praised! Even if u send me to hell, i know u r being fair & just. I just pray for Your mercy & grace to be given to me. In Jesus' name, Amen. Come Lord Jesus. -
Kong See Mee?Originally posted by John The Baptist:I mean it's great! Thanks. I was reading further & it really spoke to me. I think I should start reading Eccles. esp chapter 7. I mean thank God, great book by Solomon. He wrote here in Ecc. 8:16-17-"When i applied my heart to know wisdom & to see the business that is done on earth, even though one sees no sleep day or night, then i saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For tho a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, tho a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it."
Hallelujah! Praise God & His infinite wisdom & power! All glory to God alone! All honour & power to God alone, for He alone is wise & holy! May God forgive me. I repent in dust & ashes & cover my mouth. All creation must bow before Him & at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow & every tongue confess, of things in heaven, of things on earth & under the earth, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! I worship You God! You are worthy to be praised! Even if u send me to hell, i know u r being fair & just. I just pray for Your mercy & grace to be given to me. In Jesus' name, Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
Cheers -
I wonder how JTB talks/preaches in real life.Originally posted by M©+square:Kong See Mee?
Cheers -
Better not listen.Originally posted by Icemoon:I wonder how JTB talks/preaches in real life.
Otherwise i'll condemn all those who're named John.
Who knows? He might preach the city down knees beging him to stop!
(Abit bad....oops.) -
Thought I am the only one.....Originally posted by M©+square:Kong See Mee?
Cheers -
You're never alone.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Thought I am the only one.....
I can't take Johnny anymore.