can you accept if your child
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Please quote which verse in the bible states that Jesus said homosexuality is not a sin.Originally posted by HENG@:I agree that nowhere was it ever stated that Jesus ever stated that homosexuality is a sin.
but i wouldn't say its not a sin in Christianity because religion is human created and defined, its not absolute. Long have I said that Christianity is not an absolute representation of the will of God himself, but a human interpretation of it. So according to the humans who make up the religion, it is a sin. But according to what Jesus said, its not.
Who u believe is up to u i guess.
The Godhead or God the Father in the Trinity apparently did say that He detests homosexuality as per the verses given from the Old Testament.
God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is the same God in the Holy Trinity from beginning to end, the same yesterday, today and forever. What has been spoken by God the Father is the very same thoughts of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The persons in the Godhead will not contradict each other. -
If Christianity is not an absolute representation of the will of God but a human interpretation of it, then your idea of homosexuality being not a sin is also your own interpretation, not God's.Originally posted by HENG@:...Long have I said that Christianity is not an absolute representation of the will of God himself, but a human interpretation of it....
Who u believe is up to u i guess.
Indeed who I believe is up to me. So you also can keep to your stand on homosexuality and stay at that.
The majority of us here in this forum know Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, the very God who came to earth more than 2000 years ago, born as a helpless infant and grew up to accomplish His mission of reconciling us back to Him through His own sacrificial blood.
If Jesus is nobody to you, what can we say.. -
Originally posted by purplecrazed:Please quote which verse in the bible states that Jesus said homosexuality is not a sin.
The Godhead or God the Father in the Trinity apparently did say that He detests homosexuality as per the verses given from the Old Testament.
God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is the same God in the Holy Trinity from beginning to end, the same yesterday, today and forever. What has been spoken by God the Father is the very same thoughts of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The persons in the Triune God will not contradict each other. -
Actually, you want to think its not a sin, we all say how much also no use right? We can also pretend we are talking to walls.Originally posted by HENG@:actually, u people want to think its a sin, i say how much also no use right? ah well I can always pretend im talking to walls. -
DId you know that Hinduism started 25000 years ago and is the oldest religion in the world?Originally posted by purplecrazed:If Christianity is not an absolute representation of the will of God but a human interpretation of it, then your idea of homosexuality being not a sin is also your own interpretation, not God's.
Indeed who I believe is up to me. So you also can keep to your stand on homosexuality and stay at that.
The majority of us here in this forum know Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, the very God who came to earth more than 2000 years ago, born as a helpless infant and grew up to accomplish His mission of reconciling us back to Him through His own sacrificial blood.
If Jesus is nobody to you, what can we say.. -
Let us think in this context. Does homosexuality harms anybody? A healthy guy likes another healthy guy. How does their love for each other cause harm?
Perhaps in the past, homosexuality was unacceptable because society at large didnt like it. If you read the chapter of Leviticus you would realise that it was a chapter on how the people of that time lead their lives. No where did it mention anything about God's words.
So I urge all christians not to constraint their knowledge to that of the bible only. Turn to the other scriptures available and see if you can find a phrase that says God forbids homosexuality. -
Your context is taken in the wrong light, we are defining sin as in what God considers inappropriate, so it does not really matter that two healthy guys like each other and do not other people harm, it is whether God considers this type of behaviour inappropriate. He does. Therefore in His eyes, it is sin. Any act that perverts the original purpose for which God has intended is considered sin. This is a preversion of what God originally intended for a man and a woman to do, not a man and a man, otherwise God would have created Adam and Adam, not Adam and Eve, God in His infinite wisdom deemed that a female was the most appropriate helpmate for man. She is complementary to man in every way.Originally posted by shade343:Let us think in this context. Does homosexuality harms anybody? A healthy guy likes another healthy guy. How does their love for each other cause harm?
Perhaps in the past, homosexuality was unacceptable because society at large didnt like it. If you read the chapter of Leviticus you would realise that it was a chapter on how the people of that time lead their lives. No where did it mention anything about God's words.
So I urge all christians not to constraint their knowledge to that of the bible only. Turn to the other scriptures available and see if you can find a phrase that says God forbids homosexuality.
From a Christian standpoint, we do not consider any other scriptures ie from hinduism if that is what you are hinting at, we take the bible as the living word of God. Otherwise, why believe?
If you read the book of Leviticus it talks about God's views on certain things, using the lives of the Isrealites to show us what God does or does not like. Leviticus shows us God's standard for Holy. It is not how the Isrealites lead their lives, but God's "rules & regulations" on how things should be done. It gives us God's way not our way. -
Besides Heng, there are also some people here spell it that way...Originally posted by breytonhartge:Heng,
I take great offense at you spelling CHRISTIAN with an x, it is rude and demeaning.... -
The bible is clear that homosexual sex and practice is a sin. No point wasting time arguing lar.
Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. (Luke 17:1, Matthew 18:6) -
That, unfortunately, is your shallow perspective. And besides, since when did you become God's spokesperson? What you state is what you interpret from the bible. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and ultimately forms the basis which all should follow?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Your context is taken in the wrong light, we are defining sin as in what God considers inappropriate, so it does not really matter that two healthy guys like each other and do not other people harm, it is whether God considers this type of behaviour inappropriate. He does. Therefore in His eyes, it is sin. Any act that perverts the original purpose for which God has intended is considered sin. This is a preversion of what God originally intended for a man and a woman to do, not a man and a man, otherwise God would have created Adam and Adam, not Adam and Eve, God in His infinite wisdom deemed that a female was the most appropriate helpmate for man. She is complementary to man in every way.
From a Christian standpoint, we do not consider any other scriptures ie from hinduism if that is what you are hinting at, we take the bible as the living word of God. Otherwise, why believe?
If you read the book of Leviticus it talks about God's views on certain things, using the lives of the Isrealites to show us what God does or does not like. Leviticus shows us God's standard for Holy. It is not how the Isrealites lead their lives, but God's "rules & regulations" on how things should be done. It gives us God's way not our way.
Why believe? That is the question which you shld ask yourself. Considering that the ramayana and the mahabahrata is around 5000 years old and the bible is around 2000 years old...erm erm....you decide.
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Yup, the bible tells us that there are other oldest religions.Originally posted by shade343:DId you know that Hinduism started 25000 years ago and is the oldest religion in the world?
"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." (Acts 17:29-31)
Ops, off topics... -
u dun have to accept it.. u just have to live with it..
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xtian?
lolz
xmas -
me me meOriginally posted by askxyz:Besides Heng, there are also some people here spell it that way...
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yo dude,Originally posted by laurence82:me me me
going for tat noisology outing? -
why u ask?Originally posted by binZ:yo dude,
going for tat noisology outing?
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Reading the post you quoted, how does your reply relate to his post?Originally posted by shade343:DId you know that Hinduism started 25000 years ago and is the oldest religion in the world? -
I was merely highlighting his ignorance about other religions.Originally posted by laurence82:Reading the post you quoted, how does your reply relate to his post? -
I read the whole stuff, makes sense except for the last lineOriginally posted by shade343:I was merely highlighting his ignorance about other religions.
Why would jesus matter to me, if he is referring to non believers?
If he make the line to xtians, then sounds logical -
The description is not correct .. no wonder some Christians misunderstood.Originally posted by shade343:DId you know that Hinduism started 25000 years ago and is the oldest religion in the world?
It is "oldest extant" .. not "oldest".
Opps .. maybe "extant" is not the correct word (it refers to documents but not sure about religions) .. but I think you pple get my point. -
Purplecrazed,Originally posted by purplecrazed:So yup, to shade343 and Heng, you both have the same statement which I won't say is from you but from the old, crafty serpent. You both have this in mind "So, did God really say that..? Did Jesus really say that..? No what.. Homosexual is not a sin because God never exactly say that... The OT is what it is...old and passed away... these Christians are just trying to interpret the bible to accuse the gay community... these Christians don't have the slightest idea how a gay truly feels.."
I have the same feeling too that it is from the old crafty serpent....sounds too familiar..... -
aiyo shady .. stop wasting time quoting ramayana and mahabahrata lah .. your debating or argument framework is wrong.Originally posted by shade343:That, unfortunately, is your shallow perspective. And besides, since when did you become God's spokesperson? What you state is what you interpret from the bible. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct and ultimately forms the basis which all should follow?
Why believe? That is the question which you shld ask yourself. Considering that the ramayana and the mahabahrata is around 5000 years old and the bible is around 2000 years old...erm erm....you decide.
Asking Christians to read other scriptures is like asking the capitalists to read [and believe] the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital (sp?).
I gave a hint liao .. find the original Greek word in the bible for "homosexual" (especially in the Pauline epistle). It is "A" something. -
A Christian is a spokesperson for God, and we will standfast to our beliefs.Originally posted by shade343:That, unfortunately, is your shallow perspective. And besides, since when did you become God's spokesperson? -
Very well Spokesman of God!Originally posted by laoda99:A Christian is a spokesperson for God, and we will standfast to our beliefs.
I'd like to know where do you or Christians stand on only three questions below.
Referance
Ecclesiastes 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Paslm 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb.
Scenario::: A child is born with both female and male genital. (This are true cases by the way)
Qns 1: God fashioned his creation(Ps 139:13). This baby is also fashioned and created by God. Considering Ecc 7:13. What happened?God's will? he made crooked? Qns 2: Is this child a Male or Female?
Which organ should be dealt with to ensure that this child would live a normal life with a single organ and single Sex identity??
- To remove the male organ?
- To Surgically operate and close up the female organ?
- Or to retain as it is? Qns 3: This child have rather balanced hormone of both male and female. So either male/female hormones need to be injected so that the newborn will grow up being of his/her sex. What is the next course of action when situation of either Ver 1 or 2 arises?
Version 1
The child(female organ) was injected with female hormones but grew up to realise 'she' is a man with facial hair and muscles.
Version 2
The child(male organ) was injected with male hormones but grew up to realise 'he' have breast?
I hope you can attempt to answer these questions, in your own view.
I wish to know your stand and steadfastness.
MC -
1. The child suffers from a disease. Since the Fall of Man disease has been with mankind. Are you surprised? Go and read tyhe book of Job. He asked why he had to suffer although he was righteous, something most cannot say of themselves. Read God's reply at the end of the book.Originally posted by M©+square:Very well Spokesman of God!
I'd like to know where do you or Christians stand on only three questions below.
Referance
Ecclesiastes 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Paslm 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb. Scenario::: A child is born with both female and male genital. (This are true cases by the way) Qns 1: God fashioned his creation(Ps 139:13). This baby is also fashioned and created by God. Considering Ecc 7:13. What happened?God's will? he made crooked? Qns 2: Is this child a Male or Female?
Which organ should be dealt with to ensure that this child would live a normal life with a single organ and single Sex identity??
- To remove the male organ?
- To Surgically operate and close up the female organ?
- Or to retain as it is? Qns 3: This child have rather balanced hormone of both male and female. So either male/female hormones need to be injected so that the newborn will grow up being of his/her sex. What is the next course of action when situation of either Ver 1 or 2 arises?
Version 1
The child(female organ) was injected with female hormones but grew up to realise 'she' is a man with facial hair and muscles.
Version 2
The child(male organ) was injected with male hormones but grew up to realise 'he' have breast?
I hope you can attempt to answer these questions, in your own view.
I wish to know your stand and steadfastness.
MC
2 and 3. The causes are numerous and depend on the underlying disease. Probably the most common cause is congenital adrenal hyperplasia, due to an abnormality of the endocrine system. The baby is a girl with penis because of a hormonal defect. Doctors correct the hormonal defect and the child can be raised normally as a girl. Other rare, chromosomal abnormalities can cause ambiguous genitalia but doctors can and will decide on the sex assignment based on the case. Plastic surgery may be required but the parents will be told of the child's sex with no ambiguity at all.
There are two other 'intersexual' conditions but both cases DO NOT have ambiguous genitalia.
Turner syndrome (XO) is a condition in which the child has gonadal dysgenesis. She looks like a normal girl with normal female genitalia but she will be infertile.
Testicular feminisation syndrome is a condition where there is an abnormality of the male hormone receptor. The child looks like a normal girl and nobody suspects anything until she grows up (usually tall and often pretty) but does not have menses nor axillary or pubic hair. They have XY chromosome but are usually brought up as girls because nobody suspect the problem until puberty. The testes are small and not developed. Doctors often remove them to prevent the risk of cancer. They often marry and are well adjusted women but they will not have children.
Where did you hear about injecting the genitals with male and female hormones? It's certainly not acceptable medical practice In any case, I can assure you both your two versions will not happen.