What does the meaning of beliving in god mean?

• StarPuppy

  5 Oct 05, 15:43

  I belive there is a god,each religeon has a god...does it mean i am being unfaithful to god?
  
  I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points
  
  please explain...thanks
  
  P.S: i am a free thinker...i am not here to make trouble...i just want to understand some points of view of which i..a free thinker cannot see in the way of the christians
• larrenV2.003

  5 Oct 05, 15:45

  Its up to ppl to believe whether there is this superbeing called GOD up there in the sky.
• sillyme

  5 Oct 05, 17:27

  Hi there,
  
  It depends on how you define believing. If believing is just acknowledgement, then maybe it will not be a big issue. But if believing means living by the principles, values and teachings, then you may find it hard to find a compromise between everything you believe in.
  
  If a godly being is not perfect, then it doesn't make a difference for one to just believe an worship a human or other things that can be worshipped.
• ben1xy

  5 Oct 05, 17:48

  Originally posted by StarPuppy:
  [b]
  
  I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points
  

  hmm... lets tackle this from 2 perspective. first would be from a wordly pespective. in this case, we are governed by principals and u can argue abt cause-and0effect. or how like u mentioned that everything in life has its bad points.
  
  lets take a step back. think abt it from a celestial perspective. the rules governing the world doesn't apply and it's hard to fanthom what actually this world will be like.
  
  thus, what is not attainable is a worldly context might be attainable in a celestial context. How? that's beyond me .. we're all living in this wordly context
  
  ok ... i dunno whether u get what i mean ... coz i am starting to confuse myself
  
  lol
• Gauze

  7 Oct 05, 21:52

  Originally posted by StarPuppy:
  [b]I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points
  

  A perfect God can certainly create an imperfect world. Let that sink for a while.
  

  I belive there is a god,each religeon has a god...does it mean i am being unfaithful to god?

  I really don't think you are unfaithful and is close! You see, the prophets, saints and those regarded as holy form a connection of the divine. And the foundation of religion was brought about by the experience of the divine. Then from there, thoughts, beliefs and religious expressions start to form and develop as the byproducts. But right now, generally all of us are going from the opposite direction. We start to belief without knowing. Feeling without yet perception. And doing rituals which may not function as intended. Probably that is why religions nowadays seems sterile.
  
  To start off, I suppose everybody has to flick that divine spark within themselves and naturally, one will take towards a certain apprehension. Thats how it commences I guess. How? But arrrr... gotta not confuse spirituality with that of feeding on outer manifestations of emotionality.
• Icemoon

  7 Oct 05, 22:41

  Originally posted by StarPuppy:

  I belive there is a god,each religeon has a god...does it mean i am being unfaithful to god?
  
  I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points

  Answer is simple what ..
  
  God is not of this world.
• shade343

  7 Oct 05, 22:44

  Originally posted by StarPuppy:

  I belive there is a god,each religeon has a god...does it mean i am being unfaithful to god?
  
  I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points
  
  please explain...thanks
  
  P.S: i am a free thinker...i am not here to make trouble...i just want to understand some points of view of which i..a free thinker cannot see in the way of the christians

  No. All gods are the same. They work as a team. But to say god is imperfect might be a bit of arrogance on your side. You are not the creator. so who are you to comment on him?
• cool_ridge

  11 Oct 05, 00:39

  Hello there!
  
  I'll try to answer your queries well as i can...
  
  When God created the world and everything in it, He said that it was good. That means to say that He made the world perfect. However, it was man who tarnished the earth. How did this happen? Well, man is imperfect, and therefore all man (and women, for that matter) have sinned. No one is without sin. So back to my point, Adam and Eve, the first humans on earth, were the ones who sinned first. They ate of the forbidden fruit in which God commanded them not to. And so that was the origin of imperfection on this earth.
  
  So then, you might be asking yourself, if God is "perfect" and humans are not, why then did He create us? The answer is simple. It is because He loves us.
  
  The theme of God is all about love, a love so great He laid his life down for us. Which other god has ever done that for us???
• eternal hope

  11 Oct 05, 00:47

  "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 01:44

  Originally posted by cool_ridge:

  The theme of God is all about love, a love so great He laid his life down for us. Which other god has ever done that for us???

  Dizhang Wang said "if he dun go hell, who will"?
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 09:35

  I belive there is a god,each religeon has a god...does it mean i am being unfaithful to god?
  
  I dun see whats wrong when i told my fren " i belive god is near perfect but he is not all perfect"
  
  I mean how could god be all perfect? prefect is nothingness...anything in life would have its bad points

  if god is perfect, he wouldn't make the devil or allow men to eat the apple
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 11:17

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  if god is perfect, he wouldn't make the devil or allow men to eat the apple

  SIS spourting rubbish again.
  
  1. God didn't make the devil. God made an angel of music.
  2. If he didn't allow men to eat the apple, he will be interfering with their free will. Since a perfect being is free, and if you argue God's creation will be perfect too, then there is self contradicton here, since humans are now not perfect.
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 11:23

  SIS spourting rubbish again.
  
  1. God didn't make the devil. God made an angel of music.

  why does he become the devil then ? Perhaps god made jealousy etc ? God himself can foresee tis outcome yet still make an angel easily overcome with, (i don't know, negative emotions ?) and become corrupted. He really make the devil
  
  

  2. If he didn't allow men to eat the apple, he will be interfering with their free will. Since a perfect being is free, and if you argue God's creation will be perfect too, then there is self contradicton here, since humans are now not perfect.

  It is not about free will but rather about putting a tree where adam has free assessible to it. Furthermore being a perfect god he could foresee adam eating it yet purposely do nothign about it.
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 11:35

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  why does he become the devil then ? Perhaps god made jealousy etc ? God himself can foresee tis outcome yet still make an angel easily overcome with, (i don't know, negative emotions ?) and become corrupted. He really make the devil
  
  It is not about free will but rather about putting a tree where adam has free assessible to it. Furthermore being a perfect god he could foresee adam eating it yet purposely do nothign about it.

  How can God make jealousy? In the beginning God said "it was very good" for his creations.
  
  It is always about free will. Since a perfect being is free, free will means that your actions may have bad consequences. It is not about where you put your tree. If Adam and Eve had total obedience to God (God told them not to eat right? Was the instruction not clear?), they wouldn't commit any sins even if whole garden filled with evil apples.
  
  Grow up lah. God didn't create a nanny state, where any object or event capable of inducing sin will be put away.
  
  Na bei .. I dun want to discuss about free will vs. foreknowledge leh .. MCSquare HELP ME LEH!!
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 11:40

  How can God make jealousy? In the beginning God said "it was very good" for his creations.

  then how did the angel become a devil ? U know wat the law says, when a defect is seen, it is the fault of the manufacturer especially when they can foresee the outcome
  
  

  It is always about free will. Since a perfect being is free, free will means that your actions may have bad consequences. It is not about where you put your tree. If Adam and Eve had total obedience to God (God told them not to eat right? Was the instruction not clear?), they wouldn't commit any sins even if whole garden filled with evil apples.

  As said, he put a tree where adam has easy assessible to it. And without eating the fruit of wisdom, they r probably defenseless against arguments from a snake or a devil. And obviously he can foresee tat adam is gonna eat the fruit anyway and still put it there
  
  

  Grow up lah. God didn't create a nanny state, where any object or event capable of inducing sin will be put away.

  then sin is already around and around even before adam eat the fruit
  
  

  Na bei .. I dun want to discuss about predestination and foreknowledge leh .. MCSquare HELP ME LEH!!

  u have to discuss because it is about a "perfect" being and a perfect all-knowing being can foresee wat is to come
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 11:44

  if the above points are not clear enuff, never mind.
  
  God forsees (God never deals with past tense .. lol) that pple like SIS cannot understand free will and obedience in the Eden story.
  
  That's why God gave us the gospels. Where Adam had failed, Jesus has succeeded!
  
  God knows perfect being too difficult to imagine liao, that's why God became flesh and dwelt among us. This God, unlike those Romans gods like Zeus who came down only to fark around, is sinless.
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 11:47

  if the above points are not clear enuff, never mind.
  
  God forsees (God never deals with past tense .. lol) that pple like SIS cannot understand free will and obedience in the Eden story.
  
  That's why God gave us the gospels. Where Adam had failed, Jesus has succeeded!
  
  God knows perfect being too difficult to imagine liao, that's why God became flesh and dwelt among us. This God, unlike those Romans gods like Zeus who came down only to fark around, is sinless.

  And even with the gospels, there r many people around who still remains as buddhist or taoists. Big deal... have all christians becoem totally obedient ? I doubt so. Jesus probably fail as well
  
  Actually u r already leaving the topic of whether is god a perfect being or not. Why does it have to do with coming as flesh and insulting zeus in the process ? The question is on whether is god a perfect being or not
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 11:51

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  then how did the angel become a devil ? U know wat the law says, when a defect is seen, it is the fault of the manufacturer especially when they can foresee the outcome

  How he came a devil? Dunno .. you ask him lor. The law analogy doesn't hold here. If you want to apply, then be fair - God did say it was very good right? If you were there when God finished his creation, you will also say - it is very good. There is absolutely no defect then. Maybe Eve had the perfect barbie figure even .. lol .. and what was that? 36-20-32?
  
  

  As said, he put a tree where adam has easy assessible to it. And without eating the fruit of wisdom, they r probably defenseless against arguments from a snake or a devil. And obviously he can foresee tat adam is gonna eat the fruit anyway and still put it there

  Defenseless against arguments .. dun think so. God could have told them not to believe in any snakes and if they obeyed, nothing will happen to them. No sins will be committed. About putting the tree there .. hello where do you draw the line? Maybe God shouldn't put create mosquitoes then. 'cos you can imagine Adam scolding vulgarities when the Andes bite him.
  
  

  then sin is already around and around even before adam eat the fruit

  You are correct this time! Guess what .. the devil was there right?
  
  

  u have to discuss because it is abotu a "perfect" being and a perfect all knowing can foresee wat is to come

  No thanks. And I suspect you wouldn't understand too. Too cheam for you liao.
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 11:53

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  And even with the gospels, there r many people around who still remains as buddhist or taoists. Big deal...
  
  Actually u r already leaving the topic of whether is god a perfect being or not. Why does it have to do with coming as flesh and insulting zeus in the process ?

  And even in the Bible, God did say many will not believe or believe for the wrong reason. Big deal ..
  
  Don't have to defend Zeus lah .. any sane woman will also want to hantum him for his endless adulterous romps.
  
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 12:02

  How he came a devil? Dunno .. you ask him lor. The law analogy doesn't hold here. If you want to apply, then be fair - God did say it was very good right? If you were there when God finished his creation, you will also say - it is very good. There is absolutely no defect then. Maybe Eve had the perfect barbie figure even .. lol .. and what was that? 36-20-32?

  U don't know why he become a devil ? Or u just pretty to act blur And god says he made all things good yet they all turn bad ? Tat doesn't sounds like a perfect being who do not know fully wat he had created. All these things do went bad and he shows himself to be either a lier or incapable of knowing.
  
  

  Defenseless against arguments .. dun think so. God could have told them not to believe in any snakes and if they obeyed, nothing will happen to them. No sins will be committed. About putting the tree there .. hello where do you draw the line? Maybe God shouldn't put create mosquitoes then. 'cos you can imagine Adam scolding vulgarities when the Andes bite him

  And did he ? he didn't and he even invent the snake when he know it is gonna tempt eve to eat the fruit. As said, he knew tat all these is gonna happen yet still put put all the factors there anyway. About aedesmpsquitoes, when adam scold a vulgarity if it bits him does god go and virtually destroy the whole world because of it ? If he do, then something is really wrong about god's idea of free will
  
  

  You are correct this time! Guess what .. the devil was there right?

  Tat is a snake. But if u believe it is a devil, then why does god blame men for eating the fruit when it is obvious men will lose to the devil's lies
  
  

  No thanks. And I suspect you wouldn't understand too. Too cheam for you liao

  Do I add any insults to u when I reply ? Well it shows your character
  
  

  And even in the Bible, God did say many will not believe or believe for the wrong reason. Big deal ..

  So wat happen to yoru statement about the gospel ? Jesus still fails to bring men under complete obedience right ?
  
  

  Don't have to defend Zeus lah .. any sane woman will also want to hantum him for his endless adulterous romps.

  Well, your god is a murderous field tat slaughter people without battling an eyelid and also degrades women to be silent slaves. Not much better here
• M©+square

  11 Oct 05, 12:13

  Originally posted by Icemoon:

  How can God make jealousy? In the beginning God said "it was very good" for his creations.
  
  It is always about free will. Since a perfect being is free, free will means that your actions may have bad consequences. It is not about where you put your tree. If Adam and Eve had total obedience to God (God told them not to eat right? Was the instruction not clear?), they wouldn't commit any sins even if whole garden filled with evil apples.
  
  Grow up lah. God didn't create a nanny state, where any object or event capable of inducing sin will be put away.
  
  Na bei .. I dun want to discuss about free will vs. foreknowledge leh .. MCSquare HELP ME LEH!!

  Wah...try getting me involved with this great paradox ah!?
  Very evil oh
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 12:37

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  U don't know why he become a devil ? Or u just pretty to act blur And god says he made all things good yet they all turn bad ? Tat doesn't sounds like a perfect being who do not know fully wat he had created. All these things do went bad and he shows himself to be either a lier or incapable of knowing.

  God never promised "And they will always be good". Where got liar? God just said they were good when created - meaning God never created evil.
  
  He became a devil by his own actions. God never forced him to. This one I know.
  
  

  And did he ? he didn't and he even invent the snake when he know it is gonna tempt eve to eat the fruit. As said, he knew tat all these is gonna happen yet still put put all the factors there anyway. About aedesmpsquitoes, when adam scold a vulgarity if it bits him does god go and virtually destroy the whole world because of it ? If he do, then something is really wrong about god's idea of free will

  God told them not to eat. Since the snake was not god in disguise (snake never claimed to be god anyway), effectively this means God's orders were not superseded in any ways. Yah so He did.
  
  God never put "sinful" factors there to tempt the couple. The tree was just not meant for the couple's consumption, period. If it is not for you, then it is not for you. If a girl is not yours, she is not yours, you can't just rape her and put the blame on her parents right? Dunno what u mean by God destroying the world 'cos of aedes mosquitoes ..
  
  

  Tat is a snake. But if u believe it is a devil, then why does god blame men for eating the fruit when it is obvious men will lose to the devil's lies

  I think the Jews dun associate the snake with the devil, so this is entirely the Christian argument from theology.
  
  There were no lies. The devil told the truth, almost every words of it. But there is no excuse for disobedience. God told them not to eat. Period.
  
  

  Do I add any insults to u when I reply ? Well it shows your character

  Well .. many forummers have tried to explain to you, but with low success rate. The facts speak for themselves. I never insult you wor.
  
  

  So wat happen to yoru statement about the gospel ? Jesus still fails to bring men under complete obedience right ?

  God gave you something more palatable; He shows us what Adam should be. Jesus triumphed where Adam failed; both were tempted by the devil.
  
  

  Well, your god is a murderous field tat slaughter people without battling an eyelid and also degrades women to be silent slaves. Not much better here

  That's fine. We won't charge you with sedition over this.
• Icemoon

  11 Oct 05, 12:57

  Originally posted by M©+square:

  Wah...try getting me involved with this great paradox ah!?
  Very evil oh

  either you or fandango.
• stupidissmart

  11 Oct 05, 13:59

  God never promised "And they will always be good". Where got liar? God just said they were good when created - meaning God never created evil.
  
  He became a devil by his own actions. God never forced him to. This one I know.

  If everything is made good, then wat is the thing tat start to make things bad ? Is it things will definitely become bad after a brief period of warranty or "something" tat make it bad ?
  
  Why don't u be more specific and tell the complete picture of why the angel of music become a devil ? God expected the "devil" to become the "devil" the moment he is created. In fact the devil is really guided by god's action to become the thing he is now. Even god himself claims he made good and evil as well as saying the pharoah acts like wat he is acting jut because he made him as such
  
  

  God told them not to eat. Since the snake was not god in disguise (snake never claimed to be god anyway), effectively this means God's orders were not superseded in any ways. Yah so He did.

  the snake is created by god, he expect the snake to behave the way he did and he didn't stop all the things to develop. Effectively tis is just a trap or a show
  
  

  God never put "sinful" factors there to tempt the couple. The tree was just not meant for the couple's consumption, period. If it is not for you, then it is not for you. If a girl is not yours, she is not yours, you can't just rape her and put the blame on her parents right? Dunno what u mean by God destroying the world 'cos of aedes mosquitoes ..

  The factors r god putting such a tree within their grasp, god create the snake knowing he will tempt adam, god create adam knowing he will be tempted (adam is pure or "good" before he eat the fruit and yet he still eat it)and god did nothing to stop this from happening nor do anything to remedy the situtation (like reversing time or forcing the fruit out). Being a perfect all-knowing being he did set the preparations for his show
  
  

  I think the Jews dun associate the snake with the devil, so this is entirely the Christian argument from theology.
  
  There were no lies. The devil told the truth, almost every words of it. But there is no excuse for disobedience. God told them not to eat. Period.

  if according to u, then men is against the devil on whether to eat or not eat the fruit. How can men triump over the devil by themselves
  
  

  Well .. many forummers have tried to explain to you, but with low success rate. The facts speak for themselves. I never insult you wor.

  The words u say r as plain as day a clear insult. I have try explaining things to u but with low success rate as well. Do I go around talking about your intelligence ?
  
  

  God gave you something more palatable; He shows us what Adam should be. Jesus triumphed where Adam failed; both were tempted by the devil.

  Tat is simply because jesus is god and adam is man. If adam fails, it really means god fails as he is the one creating adam. And u r again disgressing from the fact tat u say the gospel can make men obedient when it clearly cannot
  
  
• ghimpheng

  11 Oct 05, 14:03

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Tat is simply because jesus is god and adam is man. If adam fails, it really means god fails as he is the one creating adam. And u r again disgressing from the fact tat u say the gospel can make men obedient when it clearly cannot
  
  

  If he had created adam as perfect as him,we will have adam as god too So It does not mean that adam fail then god fail.If Human do 1 mistake and repent I can also consider that humans had failed from the point that you have mentioned mean all go to hell ?