Non-Christians cannot go to heaven
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And why are you so sure that Jesus is not the personal saviour of all the Catholics on earth? And that we do not live our lives according to the Holy Scripture?
We are deviating from the topic. We should continue this elsewhere. -
this was the same thing that a christian friend told me.Originally posted by fandango:My personal conviction is this:
Because being "born again" is to truely repent of your sins and to recieve Lord Jesus as your personal Saviour and your Lord, and to live your life according to the bible...i suspect that there ARE some (maybe a minute number) roman catholics that are truely born again but are entrapped in the Vatican's system and tradition without their knowledge.
A lady friend asked me before, "Do you think Mother Teresa is born again?". I shared with her that since Mother Teresa is such a "high-ranking" nun and should know about the doctrines and theology of both Roman Catholism and Christianity, if she was truely born again, she would have left the Vatican long ago.
This lady friend continued, "So, the more a Roman Catholic learns more about RC-ism and the more he/she becomes more devout, the less likely he/she is born again?" I said "most probably."
but when i posed the question on whether the works of Mother Theresa was by her own efforts and was in fact... God working through her.
we agreed that it was mostly like divine providence (Mother Theresa said this herself). this would thus be counter intuitive wouldn't u say?
wads ur take fandango? -
But many times mother Theresa has said that she was led by the Lord Jesus and that He is her Lord and saviour... I definitely think that she is saved... it does not mean that just because you are an RC you are not saved. I think that we here at EH, like i have mentioned many times before, should just love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ and not nitpick the little things...Originally posted by ben1xy:this was the same thing that a christian friend told me.
but when i posed the question on whether the works of Mother Theresa was by her own efforts and was in fact... God working through her.
we agreed that it was mostly like divine providence (Mother Theresa said this herself). this would thus be counter intuitive wouldn't u say?
wads ur take fandango?
It is pointless to debate whether this or that person was saved... ultimately, God sees the heart and it is between God and you... no one else, regardless of denomination. The bible does say that all who call upon the name of Jesus shall be saved. Not maybe, not might... BUT SHALL... its a definite. But the more important question here is ARE YOU SAVED? -
The bible has clearly stated:Originally posted by iveco:As long as you do good, you can go to heaven, regardless of religion. That's what I feel.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. -
check this out.. i was reading den i noticed this from the gooooooogle ad beside.
http://www.jesus-christ.ws/
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This is a Very good website. I agree with some of the things mention in there.Originally posted by Ito_^:check this out.. i was reading den i noticed this from the gooooooogle ad beside.
http://www.jesus-christ.ws/ 
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Here is something which I would like to share...
6th October 2005
The Vedas teach that man should adore and worship God in gratitude for His benedictions. The Bible teaches that he should pray for peace and practise charity. The Koran would have man show mercy to the suffering and to surrender his will to the Almighty. All religions have taught what is good, and everyone should lead a righteous life based on this knowledge. If the minds are pure, how can any religion be bad? All the religions are different paths leading to one and the same destination. All devotees should experience this truth and live up to it in their daily lives. They should lead righteous lives and thereby experience enduring bliss. Only then will their spiritual effort be fruitful. Listen to the words of the wise, purify your thoughts and concentrate your mind on God. God can be installed only in a pure heart. The aim of all Sadhana (spiritual practices) should be to purify the heart.
- BABA -
Religions are established as evolving guidelines for different societies in order to function and survive, in a state of competition against people of other faith in the purpose of proving the superiority of one society against another and the following of a mutual co-existence with a competitive nature. e.g. a deity of a village is treated as a demon in another rival village. People are not pure from the start, how can religion be pure if it is a product of our social progression?
Perhaps, there is no such thing as a pure heart from the beginning, and never will be. -
hey brey .. nah .. not nit picking ... like i mentioned in my earlier post, i treat christians as fellow brothers n sisters in christ. juz wanted to hear from fandango.Originally posted by breytonhartge:But many times mother Theresa has said that she was led by the Lord Jesus and that He is her Lord and saviour... I definitely think that she is saved... it does not mean that just because you are an RC you are not saved. I think that we here at EH, like i have mentioned many times before, should just love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ and not nitpick the little things...
It is pointless to debate whether this or that person was saved... ultimately, God sees the heart and it is between God and you... no one else, regardless of denomination. The bible does say that all who call upon the name of Jesus shall be saved. Not maybe, not might... BUT SHALL... its a definite. But the more important question here is ARE YOU SAVED?
ooo .. and dun worry .. i am not going to judge who wil or won't be saved. if there's anyone ... it will be God that does that.
peace! -
Baba may have good teachings, but his character is suspect. I trust Mother Theresa more than him.Originally posted by shade343:Here is something which I would like to share...
6th October 2005
The Vedas teach that man should adore and worship God in gratitude for His benedictions. The Bible teaches that he should pray for peace and practise charity. The Koran would have man show mercy to the suffering and to surrender his will to the Almighty. All religions have taught what is good, and everyone should lead a righteous life based on this knowledge. If the minds are pure, how can any religion be bad? All the religions are different paths leading to one and the same destination. All devotees should experience this truth and live up to it in their daily lives. They should lead righteous lives and thereby experience enduring bliss. Only then will their spiritual effort be fruitful. Listen to the words of the wise, purify your thoughts and concentrate your mind on God. God can be installed only in a pure heart. The aim of all Sadhana (spiritual practices) should be to purify the heart.
- BABA -
x2Originally posted by sillyme:Hi all,
In the few recent posts started in Eternal Hope, I wish to remind us to discuss with a sensitive heart. The threads are very similiar nature and may lead to hostile discussions.
I wish for things to be discussed rationally. If you cannot agree with things, then let it be. Though we will be willing to make known our beliefs, we at Eternal Hope do not aim to impose our faith on you. If we can't see eye to eye, then let us part on different views.
If there is any deviation of the thread to become hostile, we will close the threads. -
Yup, questions on Catholics shld go to Catholic forum. Not EH.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:And why are you so sure that Jesus is not the personal saviour of all the Catholics on earth? And that we do not live our lives according to the Holy Scripture?
We are deviating from the topic. We should continue this elsewhere.
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NICE.Originally posted by sillyme:Hi all,
In the few recent posts started in Eternal Hope, I wish to remind us to discuss with a sensitive heart. The threads are very similiar nature and may lead to hostile discussions.
I wish for things to be discussed rationally. If you cannot agree with things, then let it be. Though we will be willing to make known our beliefs, we at Eternal Hope do not aim to impose our faith on you. If we can't see eye to eye, then let us part on different views.
If there is any deviation of the thread to become hostile, we will close the threads. -
NAY... Note that 'heaven' and 'hell' are so called 'eternal states'...Originally posted by launtpc:knn, Christians always insult other people religion, like say their religion worhip devils.
Go heaven -- so many people die, heaven and hell must be flooded. Population boom. -
Personally I would prefer to separate the concept of religion and God.
I come to agree pretty much with Ito who said..."Religions are established as evolving guidelines for different societies in order to function and survive, in a state of competition against people of other faith in the purpose of proving the superiority of one society against another and the following of a mutual co-existence with a competitive nature. e.g. a deity of a village is treated as a demon in another rival village. People are not pure from the start, how can religion be pure if it is a product of our social progression?
Perhaps, there is no such thing as a pure heart from the beginning, and never will be. "
Religion, after all is a social institution by man, established due to countless which matters little. But what I wish to emphasis and expand on what Ito's said, religion, being a human-based social institution can't be pure. Catholics during the Middle Ages had taken serious bashing due to some atrocities they did in past. Islam started early with a chain of wars linking all the way to Spain in past; possibly seeing that as a mistake to being with, and now condemns the Islamic extremists reponsible for the recent terrorism and violence. --- Some doctrines taught now at this very instant in any great religion could be seen as wrong or godless and change in future. you'll never know.
The popular question of many christians to non-christians...ARE YOU SAVED?
Looking out from yourself, if you're the non-christian, how does that make you feel? I recall once when an Evangelical used to ask me that - immediately i shut myself off from that guy. Arrogance, nuts, assumes himself as God, assumes that once we've turned christians - we are saved. Taking a more rational approach, I thought...if there really is a God, who are we to decide who's saved? Much less popping this question to someone else. --- My point is, let God decide who's to be saved...just as we can never be safe to assume that non-christians will or not be saved.
Like iveco mentioned..just do good, which also encompass not harming people, not bearing malice, seek vengence, satisfying our own conscience is truly enough given our human limits. -
we are all saved by some1 which we do not even saw, which has no concrete evidence except the bible, and and tat person asked other ppl to believe him and spread tat word tat all other ppl are saved by him and if ppl dun believe in him, they shall go to hell...
how do u expect me to believe this thing happens? -
Wrong understanding.Originally posted by RaTtY81:
we are all saved by some1 which we do not even saw, which has no concrete evidence except the bible, and and tat person asked other ppl to believe him and spread tat word tat all other ppl are saved by him and if ppl dun believe in him, they shall go to hell...how do u expect me to believe this thing happens?
God doesn't beg you to believe in Him and get saved. No such thing. Salvation is by the Spirit, not by you.
pple like you .. always lend support to the TULIP model. -
Sometimes I think issit 'cos Christianity is so irrational that's why need something like the TULIP model?
If a religion appeals to our sense and preaches "those who do good can go heaven" kind of thing, we won't need concepts like total depravity and irresistable grace liao.
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Can I conclude that you mean :Originally posted by fandango:My personal conviction is this:
Because being "born again" is to truely repent of your sins and to recieve Lord Jesus as your personal Saviour and your Lord, and to live your life according to the bible...i suspect that there ARE some (maybe a minute number) roman catholics that are truely born again but are entrapped in the Vatican's system and tradition without their knowledge.
A lady friend asked me before, "Do you think Mother Teresa is born again?". I shared with her that since Mother Teresa is such a "high-ranking" nun and should know about the doctrines and theology of both Roman Catholism and Christianity, if she was truely born again, she would have left the Vatican long ago.
This lady friend continued, "So, the more a Roman Catholic learns more about RC-ism and the more he/she becomes more devout, the less likely he/she is born again?" I said "most probably."
i) Roman Catholics are not saved because they do not believe in what you and your denomination believe?
ii) Mother Theresa is not going to heaven despite of her love for God and God's people because she did not leave the Catholic Church to join the Protestant? -
i. RC believe in Jesus Christ what..Originally posted by FrustMom:Can I conclude that you mean :
i) Roman Catholics are not saved because they do not believe in what you and your denomination believe?
ii) Mother Theresa is not going to heaven despite of her love for God and God's people because she did not leave the Catholic Church to join the Protestant?
ii. Nonsense. What difference does Protestanism have from Catholism if they insists that RC will go to hell because they are RC even if they believe in Jesus Christ? -
I agree with you.Originally posted by Ito_^:i. RC believe in Jesus Christ what..
ii. Nonsense. What difference does Protestanism have from Catholism if they insists that RC will go to hell because they are RC even if they believe in Jesus Christ? -
They dun even have physical form liao. How to say whethr they grow up or remain as babies?Originally posted by crazy monkey:when babies die, if they go to heaven, will they grow up or stay as babies forever ?
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in the first place, what is this whole thing about being "born again"? I can't help but be reminded of cycle of life, karma...
i presume the whole talk is if mother theresa is going heaven. by human standards, indeed, we would all like to think that she's already up in heaven, beside whoever God is. However, it can't seem to be stressed enough that these are all, our very own guesses and speculations. Since she's a christian, specifically a roman catholic, it truly jesus christ himself to judge her, and by his grace, bring her into heaven...
christians and roman catholics alike, despite their differences, they still fundamentally believe in the same God, albeit denominational differences in some minor denominations that do not have the same understanding of God. again, who goes to hell, who goes to heaven, it's really hard to guess. -
i dun understand... n dun wanna understand.Originally posted by Icemoon:Wrong understanding.
God doesn't beg you to believe in Him and get saved. No such thing. Salvation is by the Spirit, not by you.
pple like you .. always lend support to the TULIP model. -
Besides the bible, there are also some other evidences that prove the existence of Jesus and His cruficion and He rose three days after that. For example we can get to know this SIGNIFICANT events from ancient historians who were not christian. Some other evidences would be eye witnesses which pass on and on... well I know you would not believe that. I believe there are also other evidences which I have not known about it now.Originally posted by RaTtY81:we are all saved by some1 which we do not even saw, which has no concrete evidence except the bible, and and tat person asked other ppl to believe him and spread tat word tat all other ppl are saved by him and if ppl dun believe in him, they shall go to hell...
how do u expect me to believe this thing happens?
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77