Are these pple mumbo jumbo?
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recently i was accused by some unruly forummer in CC to be mumbo jumbo 'cos I dun have proper belief. Even Happyharvest thought I was weird.
But then read this ST article:
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SECTION: Saturday Special Report
LENGTH: 361 words
HEADLINE: God? YES Religion? NO
BYLINE: Aaron Low
BODY:
HE LOWERS his head, closes his eyes and murmurs a short prayer before every meal.
When he feels small and helpless, like when his grandmother was sick, he whispers a plea to God for help, much like any Christian would do.
But Mr Tan Wei Tzern is not a Christian. Nor is he a Muslim. Or a Jew.
He shares the monotheistic beliefs of all three faiths but refuses to be associated with organised religion.
'That doesn't mean I'm against them either,' adds the 24-year-old trading executive.
Many Singaporeans can probably relate to his stance.
Some 14 per cent of people polled by The Straits Times say they do not have a religion but none of them is against religion.
And like Mr Tan, the majority of this group - almost seven in 10 - believe in the existence of a supreme being.
A third say they will consider converting to a religion in the future, an admission that should get proselytisers fired up.
But people like Mr Tan are not uncommon in most societies, says sociologist Alexius Pereira.
'Very few people will actually say they do not believe in God or supreme beings because existential questions always come back to haunt them,' he explains.
But if they believe in God, why do they not rely on religion?
One reason is their higher level of education, says Dr Tan Kim Huat, dean of studies at Trinity Theological College.
Indeed, according to the survey, almost six in 10 of those with no religion have at least A-levels. A quarter have degrees.
Dr Tan believes the better-educated prefer to find meaning based on their own intellect and reasoning. They refuse to have religion rule over their lives.
Mr Tan, a trading executive, attended church as a child but stopped by the time he hit his late teens.
'Not everything can be seen in good or bad, black or white. There are a lot of grey areas as well and religion doesn't make allowances for these.'
Yet, he continues to pray because 'there is a limit to how much science can answer the questions of the universe'.
If he ever does goes back to an organised religion, he says, it will be Christianity. But he does not see it happening soon.
'When it comes, I'll know,' he says.
LOAD-DATE: July 15, 2005 -
I saw some people recently trying to convince forumers that there is god. Is this the big issue? I think the question in most people mind, except the atheists of course, is that whether the bible is truthful, and whether the intepretations are correct.
Icemoon and MCsquare have just pointed out in another threads, human arent infallible. I dont mean you start to discard the bible, but for those who are so dogmatic as to take the bible words literally, especially when they evangelise, do take some time to take a step back, and make some judgement calls. For those who are ever so asserive when they want to convert non believers, take a step back and analyse whetherwhat you are doing is right, rather than push everything down other people throats.
I just watched Cleopatra on Discovery, and they discovered that she probably didnt die of suicide. Evidence point to Octavious,afraid that Cleopatra's son, who is also Julius Caesar's son, would be a potential contender for the throne, killed both mother and son.
The myth that Cleopatra committed suicide is strong mainly because Octavious has a good propaganda master, and 100 years later, history writers like Plutarch wrote it down, and historians lapped it all up.
Leave room for errors, and you have brains, try to make sense out of it rather than blindly accept, and worse, pushy. -
What about Mark Antony? How did he die? The whole world thinks he committed suicide along with Cleopatra and inspired a play by William Shakespeare on the same subject.Originally posted by laurence82:I just watched Cleopatra on Discovery, and they discovered that she probably didnt die of suicide. Evidence point to Octavious,afraid that Cleopatra's son, who is also Julius Caesar's son, would be a potential contender for the throne, killed both mother and son.
The myth that Cleopatra committed suicide is strong mainly because Octavious has a good propaganda master, and 100 years later, history writers like Plutarch wrote it down, and historians lapped it all up.
Leave room for errors, and you have brains, try to make sense out of it rather than blindly accept, and worse, pushy. -
Eh, from the start Shakespeare's works are fictional leh...Originally posted by iveco:What about Mark Antony? How did he die? The whole world thinks he committed suicide along with Cleopatra and inspired a play by William Shakespeare on the same subject. -
so...how did Mark Anthony died?
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
you bold one line and failed to read the next.
recently i was accused by some unruly forummer in CC to be mumbo jumbo 'cos I dun have proper belief. Even Happyharvest thought I was weird.
But then read this ST article:
-------------------------------------------------------
SECTION: Saturday Special Report
LENGTH: 361 words
HEADLINE: God? YES Religion? NO
BYLINE: Aaron Low
BODY:
HE LOWERS his head, closes his eyes and murmurs a short prayer before every meal.
When he feels small and helpless, like when his grandmother was sick, he whispers a plea to God for help, much like any Christian would do.
But Mr Tan Wei Tzern is not a Christian. Nor is he a Muslim. Or a Jew.
He shares the monotheistic beliefs of all three faiths but refuses to be associated with organised religion.
'That doesn't mean I'm against them either,' adds the 24-year-old trading executive.
Many Singaporeans can probably relate to his stance.
Some 14 per cent of people polled by The Straits Times say they do not have a religion but none of them is against religion.
And like Mr Tan, the majority of this group - almost seven in 10 - believe in the existence of a supreme being.
A third say they will consider converting to a religion in the future, an admission that should get proselytisers fired up.
But people like Mr Tan are not uncommon in most societies, says sociologist Alexius Pereira.
'Very few people will actually say they do not believe in God or supreme beings because existential questions always come back to haunt them,' he explains.
But if they believe in God, why do they not rely on religion?
One reason is their higher level of education, says Dr Tan Kim Huat, dean of studies at Trinity Theological College.
Indeed, according to the survey, almost six in 10 of those with no religion have at least A-levels. A quarter have degrees.
Dr Tan believes the better-educated prefer to find meaning based on their own intellect and reasoning. They refuse to have religion rule over their lives.
Mr Tan, a trading executive, attended church as a child but stopped by the time he hit his late teens.
'Not everything can be seen in good or bad, black or white. There are a lot of grey areas as well and religion doesn't make allowances for these.'
Yet, he continues to pray because 'there is a limit to how much science can answer the questions of the universe'.
If he ever does goes back to an organised religion, he says, it will be Christianity. But he does not see it happening soon.
'When it comes, I'll know,' he says.
LOAD-DATE: July 15, 2005
you dun respect ppl, ppl wont respect you SOB. -
you are now the biggest joker in Eternal Hope.Originally posted by crazy monkey:you bold one line and failed to read the next.
you dun respect ppl, ppl wont respect you SOB.
Hello .. the forummers here can testify I'm one of the biggest supporter of monotheism. wahahah .. judaism + christianity + probably a teeny weeny bit of Islam.
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Test it.Originally posted by laurence82:I saw some people recently trying to convince forumers that there is god. Is this the big issue? I think the question in most people mind, except the atheists of course, is that whether the bible is truthful, and whether the intepretations are correct. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
You are weird in the sense that sometimes you say good thing about Christianity and sometimes you say bad thing about Christianity - sort of contrdicting what you said before? You even went to some point to make fun of Jesus and Christianity? Ain't you weird? One moment this, the other moment that. I just can't see where you coming from lar. Dun flame me if I get it wrong.
recently i was accused by some unruly forummer in CC to be mumbo jumbo 'cos I dun have proper belief. Even Happyharvest thought I was weird.
But then read this ST article:
-------------------------------------------------------
SECTION: Saturday Special Report
LENGTH: 361 words
HEADLINE: God? YES Religion? NO
BYLINE: Aaron Low
BODY:
HE LOWERS his head, closes his eyes and murmurs a short prayer before every meal.
When he feels small and helpless, like when his grandmother was sick, he whispers a plea to God for help, much like any Christian would do.
But Mr Tan Wei Tzern is not a Christian. Nor is he a Muslim. Or a Jew.
[b]He shares the monotheistic beliefs of all three faiths but refuses to be associated with organised religion.
'That doesn't mean I'm against them either,' adds the 24-year-old trading executive.
Many Singaporeans can probably relate to his stance.
Some 14 per cent of people polled by The Straits Times say they do not have a religion but none of them is against religion.
And like Mr Tan, the majority of this group - almost seven in 10 - believe in the existence of a supreme being.
A third say they will consider converting to a religion in the future, an admission that should get proselytisers fired up.
But people like Mr Tan are not uncommon in most societies, says sociologist Alexius Pereira.
'Very few people will actually say they do not believe in God or supreme beings because existential questions always come back to haunt them,' he explains.
But if they believe in God, why do they not rely on religion?
One reason is their higher level of education, says Dr Tan Kim Huat, dean of studies at Trinity Theological College.
Indeed, according to the survey, almost six in 10 of those with no religion have at least A-levels. A quarter have degrees.
Dr Tan believes the better-educated prefer to find meaning based on their own intellect and reasoning. They refuse to have religion rule over their lives.
Mr Tan, a trading executive, attended church as a child but stopped by the time he hit his late teens.
'Not everything can be seen in good or bad, black or white. There are a lot of grey areas as well and religion doesn't make allowances for these.'
Yet, he continues to pray because 'there is a limit to how much science can answer the questions of the universe'.
If he ever does goes back to an organised religion, he says, it will be Christianity. But he does not see it happening soon.
'When it comes, I'll know,' he says.
LOAD-DATE: July 15, 2005
[/b] -
hmm .. coz he doesnt believe the bible whole scale. its not his fault. its juz that he believes in some things but not others la.Originally posted by happyharvest:You are weird in the sense that sometimes you say good thing about Christianity and sometimes you say bad thing about Christianity - sort of contrdicting what you said before? You even went to some point to make fun of Jesus and Christianity? Ain't you weird? One moment this, the other moment that. I just can't see where you coming from lar. Dun flame me if I get it wrong.
during army .. one of the sergeants believed in aspects from Islam, Buddhism and Christianity.
but icemoon is monotheistic.
speaking of which hor .. icemoon hor... i actually want to visit a Jewish synagouge in aussie... can i juz walk in? must i do anything ?? can enlighten me a bit? -
fyi, the jews who do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah (i.e judaism) cannot enter churches but mosque can. becos of the trinity....Originally posted by ben1xy:hmm .. coz he doesnt believe the bible whole scale. its not his fault. its juz that he believes in some things but not others la.
during army .. one of the sergeants believed in aspects from Islam, Buddhism and Christianity.
but icemoon is monotheistic.
speaking of which hor .. icemoon hor... i actually want to visit a Jewish synagouge in aussie... can i juz walk in? must i do anything ?? can enlighten me a bit? -
HUH?Originally posted by happyharvest:fyi, the jews who do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah (i.e judaism) cannot enter churches but mosque can. becos of the trinity....
Where got such thing? They can enter, just that cannot partake in Holy Communion. Never heard b4 church reject pple one. -
you should ask moderator brey 'cos his wife is Jewish. And they are in Aussie now also right?Originally posted by ben1xy:speaking of which hor .. icemoon hor... i actually want to visit a Jewish synagouge in aussie... can i juz walk in? must i do anything ?? can enlighten me a bit?
My take is it depends on the kind of synagogue. Orthodox and Conservatives more traditional. Reform are quite ok. In Singapore, I was refused entry 'cos of security issues.
My advice is you shouldn't just walk in like that. Try to befriend one of their members (they may be somewhere talk cock sing song ) and let him lead you in. That time I did that .. wah leow .. but when I came on actual day (Sabbath) the security guard WHO IS CATHOLIC don't let me in. -
lol!!Originally posted by Icemoon:but when I came on actual day (Sabbath) the security guard WHO IS CATHOLIC don't let me in.
well, we let the Jews have their way for once. -
Not the church reject. The Jews themselves cannot enter the church because they see Christianity God not to be one but of three.Originally posted by Icemoon:HUH?
Where got such thing? They can enter, just that cannot partake in Holy Communion. Never heard b4 church reject pple one. -
Q&A time:
Am I[a Jew] allowed to enter a church or mosque?
Entering a mosque does not pose a problem, since Islam is based on a belief in the one-and-only G-d.
Entering a Church however, is problematic as Christianity is based on belief in the Trinity, a concept in which G-d is not 'one-and-only' but has partners as well.
[According to many Halachic authorities, belief in the trinity is only forbidden for a Jew. A non-Jew may follow these tenets since belief in the omnipotent G-d is still present.]
Therefore, it is forbidden for a Jew to enter the sanctuary of the church, i.e. where the actual prayer services are held. This could be misinterpreted as identification with the philosophy. However, it is permitted to enter other rooms in a church for non-religious purposes.
N. Silberberg -
BTW icemoon, why can't the Jew type God instead of G-d? cos God is not the real name, is it and so not respecting Him? Or wat?
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I not too sure whether entering a church is a sin for non-messianic and religious Jews.Originally posted by happyharvest:Not the church reject. The Jews themselves cannot enter the church because they see Christianity God not to be one but of three. -
From the Q&A above:Originally posted by Icemoon:I not too sure whether entering a church is a sin for non-messianic and religious Jews.
Therefore, it is forbidden for a Jew to enter the sanctuary of the church, i.e. where the actual prayer services are held. This could be misinterpreted as identification with the philosophy. However, it is permitted to enter other rooms in a church for non-religious purposes. -
so that thou shall not take the name of the Lord in vain.Originally posted by happyharvest:BTW icemoon, why can't the Jew type God instead of G-d? cos God is not the real name, is it and so not respecting Him? Or wat? -
any collaborating ans from other authoritative websites?Originally posted by happyharvest:From the Q&A above:
Therefore, it is forbidden for a Jew to enter the sanctuary of the church, i.e. where the actual prayer services are held. This could be misinterpreted as identification with the philosophy. However, it is permitted to enter other rooms in a church for non-religious purposes. -
The above Q&A cnp from a jewish site de.Originally posted by Icemoon:any collaborating ans from other authoritative websites? -
ehhOriginally posted by happyharvest:fyi, the jews who do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah (i.e judaism) cannot enter churches but mosque can. becos of the trinity....
but last year i was organising an inter-faith harmony event
i invited the Jews in Uni .. (the Rabbi also came) to my Parish where they observe the whole process of Mass. -
ahh .. coz after 4 yrs.... i realised that nearby got a synagouge. yes.. it took me 4 yrs.Originally posted by Icemoon:My advice is you shouldn't just walk in like that. Try to befriend one of their members (they may be somewhere talk cock sing song ) and let him lead you in. That time I did that .. wah leow .. but when I came on actual day (Sabbath) the security guard WHO IS CATHOLIC don't let me in.
and i wanted to go see see. but i think u r right.. i think better ask around in my uni bah... ask ppl bring me -
Originally posted by ben1xy:ehh
but last year i was organising an inter-faith harmony event
i invited the Jews in Uni .. (the Rabbi also came) to my Parish where they observe the whole process of Mass.
Either they are ignorant of it or they hack care. I mean those Jews are Jewish Christians or free-thinker? If their religion is Judaism and is an extremist, I think they would reject you.