Holy Days of Obligation
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Originally posted by fandango:
i am no expert on this ... but 've spoken to my vasity chaplain n parish priest extensively on salvation. their take is that u'll still go to heaven.
here is what i found about the formula or anathema
""Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and [b]we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.""
looks like damantion to hell.
So according to Vatican II, if any Catholic miss attending mass on any of the 6 Days of Obligation...... Anathema.
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i wun argue on the Vatican II coz.. sad to say .. i dunno enough
but the Priests are in a better postion than i am (one lectures in a thelogical institute in Aussie) and thats their take on it -
then your chaplain and parish priest have commited the Sin of Presumption liao.Originally posted by ben1xy:i am no expert on this ... but 've spoken to my vasity chaplain n parish priest extensively on salvation. their take is that u'll still go to heaven.
i wun argue on the Vatican II coz.. sad to say .. i dunno enough
but the Priests are in a better postion than i am (one lectures in a thelogical institute in Aussie) and thats their take on it
Anathema. -
i get where u r coming from. u see .. i wun pretend to understand. i'm also a bit seh from debating with Christians and i dun think God would want to see that.Originally posted by fandango:then your chaplain and parish priest have commited the Sin of Presumption liao.
Anathema.
i do treat Christians as my brothers n sisters although i know u dun feel that way. and u can have ur opinion which i respect.
but i reckon.. looking through this forum .. love is needed bah ...
as cheesy as it sounds
peace -
Nice.Originally posted by ben1xy:i get where u r coming from. u see .. i wun pretend to understand. i'm also a bit seh from debating with Christians and i dun think God would want to see that.
i do treat Christians as my brothers n sisters although i know u dun feel that way. and u can have ur opinion which i respect.
but i reckon.. looking through this forum .. love is needed bah ...
as cheesy as it sounds
peace
You are such a peaceful person.
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The observation of Holy Days of Obligation commemorates an event or person.
The purpose is not to excommunicate or fault anyone who does not observe, but it serves to excite the spiritual life by reminding us of the event it commemorates. -
no la... recently work load a lot.. hahaa so a bit burnt outOriginally posted by JWorld:Nice.
You are such a peaceful person. -
Originally posted by fandango:
I think you won't be condemned as long as you repent and do penance.
we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment -
salvation by works? how much/many?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I think you won't be condemned as long as you repent and do penance. -
salvation by grace.Originally posted by fandango:salvation by works? how much/many?
If there is no grace, you wouldn't even repent in the first place.
then you can do all the works you need. -
you did say "do penance"Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:salvation by grace.
If there is no grace, you wouldn't even repent in the first place.
then you can do all the works you need.
and Vatican II says "...do penance until you satisfy the Church." -
Yes i understand the first part. But the fact is that, written black and white in Vatican II, there are 6 Official Holy Days of Obligation. Whoever misses mass on any of the 6 days, in any year of their lives, it's anathema.Originally posted by JWorld:The observation of Holy Days of Obligation commemorates an event or person.
The purpose is not to excommunicate or fault anyone who does not observe, but it serves to excite the spiritual life by reminding us of the event it commemorates.
I know the purpose is not to curse anathema on everyone just for the sake of cursing. But it does sound worst than martial law, doesn't it. -
Penance is an act which shows that you regret something that you have done. It is mostly done in form of prayers.
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"Hail Mary"s you mean?Originally posted by JWorld:Penance is an act which shows that you regret something that you have done. It is mostly done in form of prayers. -
And why not?Originally posted by fandango:"Hail Mary"s you mean?
I'm sure you know how Hail Mary goes. -
Many of us miss our Mass for one reason or another sometimes.Originally posted by fandango:Yes i understand the first part. But the fact is that, written black and white in Vatican II, there are 6 Official Holy Days of Obligation. Whoever misses mass on any of the 6 days, in any year of their lives, it's anathema.
I know the purpose is not to curse anathema on everyone just for the sake of cursing. But it does sound worst like martial law, doesn't it.
But we don't get excommunicated. Excommunication does not happen at a snap of fingers just like that. Neither do we draw a clear line to say "You miss the day of Obligation. You are ousted"
Would you like to show us where did you read that from? -
In other words, do the penance that the priest in the confession box gives you.Originally posted by fandango:you did say "do penance"
and Vatican II says "...do penance until you satisfy the Church." -
one more thing.. I think the Chuch allows the bishops to decide which days of obligation are observed in their dioceses. I mean, we only observe 4 days out of 10? Nan dao all the Catholics here are mortal sinners?
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My friend, who is a Catholic, send me these links.Originally posted by JWorld:Many of us miss our Mass for one reason or another sometimes.
But we don't get excommunicated. Excommunication does not happen at a snap of fingers just like that. Neither do we draw a clear line to say "You miss the day of Obligation. You are ousted"
Would you like to show us where did you read that from?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/badliturgy.htm
it took me one whole day to digest all that. -
Oh, New Advent. It's a lot of information, isn't it?Originally posted by fandango:My friend, who is a Catholic, send me these links.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/badliturgy.htm
it took me one whole day to digest all that.
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Errmm...The Vatican II and the Council of Trent seems to suggest that. Exclude those that have attended the 6 Holy Days of Obligation faithfully for all their lives, then maybe...maybe, they can go to heaven.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Nan dao all the Catholics here are mortal sinners? -
So, is it a good source or a bad source?Originally posted by JWorld:Oh, New Advent. It's a lot of information, isn't it? -
It is too much information and most of it is not relevant to the discussion.
Can you highlight which part of it are you referring to?
(Yes, I am lazy because I seldom have so much time to type so much in a night as you can see from my almost non existent presence. Really appreciate that.) -
I have enough of it already. Never want to read them again. The doctrines are so complex. I thought you would be able to explain it to me.Originally posted by JWorld:It is too much information and most of it is not relevant to the discussion.
Can you highlight which part of it are you referring to?
(Yes, I am lazy because I seldom have so much time to type so much in a night as you can see from my almost non existent presence. Really appreciate that.) -
Just highlight the few key points will do. You know where they are since you have already read them.Originally posted by fandango:I have enough of it already. Never want to read them again. The doctrines are so complex. I thought you would be able to explain it to me.
You don't have to read the whole thing all over again. Sorry if I didn't make this clear enough.
And I notice that none of us here is good at explaining the doctrines to you.
As you can see, every answer is followed by more questions by you. This shows how poor we are in presenting what we have learnt.
May I invite you to attend the RCIA class, just for the Rite of Inquiry till the Rite of Cathecumen stage? Reading from the Catholic website won't tell you much, as you can see it for yourself already. Let me know which church is convenient for your location and I will help find out the timings and dates for you. Don't worry. Nobody is trying to convert you away from where you belong. Like what Paul Martin says "The right place to go for information about Catholic belief, in fact the only place to go for complete and authoritative information, is the Catholic Church herself." not Sgforums.
Over here, we can only do so much which is proven to be insufficient to quench your thirst for more information
In the meantime, please show us the keypoints of what you have read. And see if we can explain anything.