The "unwritten" truth about Christianity
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I would like to ask you two questions:Originally posted by RaTtY81:den the 1 tat is murdered??? go to hell???
do u think tat is FAIR?
How do you define fairness in your own terms?
How do you define fairness in God own terms? -
How is that irrelevant? Oh yeah, I didnt elaborate at all! The fact that fearing hell and personal salvation isnt the main purpose - but an awareness of God, means that the approach to searching for new converts work on very different levels. Even in a state of missionary inactivity, it is not hypocrisy since in the first place Muslims arent allowed to judge who or who is destined to heaven or hell including among the unbelievers - for there is one examplar tradition that asserts a prostitue secured her place in heaven by saving the life of a dog dying from thirst in the desert.Originally posted by Icemoon:Don't throw red herrings please. My allegations are not unfounded. -
i dun think necessary to reply liao... my fairness and ur fairness is different...Originally posted by happyharvest:I would like to ask you two questions:
How do you define fairness in your own terms?
How do you define fairness in God own terms? -
So is God!Originally posted by RaTtY81:i dun think necessary to reply liao... my fairness and ur fairness is different... -
ok if that what u mean, but i guess these two highlighted phrases lead to the same thing, even tho they may not have the same meanOriginally posted by Icemoon:opps .. my apologies.
My conviction is that someone gets reprieved 'cos he regretted and repented 'cos he finally saw the love and grace of God, and if God so loved the world how can he kill someone whom God also loved? (paiseh, this line of thought a bit rojak with my Jewish theology
) I don't quite agree that the reason was 'cos Christ told him murder is a sin.
sins, sins and more sins. lau, are you sinning everyday too?
me sinning? to quote sumone from the forum, i am so sinful they have to carve out a deeper level of hell to contain me..
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huh? but no thank u...Originally posted by sillyme:i think we are digressing from the first post? i think many christians approach preaching in many ways. it can't be simply be put into (only) the two categories mentioned. maybe some tortured souls like to be force-fed.. but i think they are the minority
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you want me to dig out those websites that SIS quoted? they wrote very clearly non believers of Allah will ^&^&&)*(*Originally posted by Gauze:Even in a state of missionary inactivity, it is not hypocrisy since in the first place Muslims arent allowed to judge who or who is destined to heaven or hell including among the unbelievers - for there is one examplar tradition that asserts a prostitue secured her place in heaven by saving the life of a dog dying from thirst in the desert. -
Yes, all unbelievers will go to hell - except that if they had been forgiven by God. Like the story above attested, we will never know their eventual place in the eyes of God, so it is an expression of vanity for us Muslims to judge somebody's worth. There are a few more traditions that asserts it,
A man saw a thorny branch from the road and removed it from the way. God became pleased by his action, forgave him and will bring him into paradise.
A poor mother with her daughters had some dates. She gave each to them, then brought hers to her mouth to eat it but her daughters wanted that also. She consequently divides the date she intended to eat between them. When the Prophet's wife related this scene to him, he said that God assured her paradise upon that act and rescued her from hellfire.
The thing to note is those acts arent related creed/beliefs, consciously thinking the consequences of heareafter or wanting to touch somebody's life. It was spontaneous moments where simple humanity was shown.
To add on, there are many planes of unbelief in Islam and to punish people for failing to accept a message that they know nothing about or that was inadequately delivered is utterly contrary to the divine mercy. Besides, the People of the Book, those who follow the scrolls of Abraham, the Torah and Gospels are spared from hell as well. So when the Christian does his/her missionary work, then good, go on, you are saving people by the way of Jesus. Lastly we do not subscribe to a permanent Hell, as it has been said, "A time will come in Hell when not a single man would be left in it."
Thus proselytizing isnt on the Muslims agenda at all but merely da'wah, a calling and invitation. Well now, Ill bow out of this discussion, just wanted to clear things out. -
yeah.. thats why until now i have not been posting on this topic at all.. just reading. however, when i come across something familiar.. i will post it carefully in my own opinion.. and everyone is free to comment on it. thats for sure.Originally posted by M©+square:May i suggest that you shouldn't thread into issue which you're not sure? This is a disturbing issue i'm talking about. And i'm sure if there's really anyone who have the ablility to contain such issue.
Research alone and by wits, or good knowledge is not enough.
In fact, it is dangerous to be quick to decipher what i am trying to say.
Hai.
Lastly, i hope you will do your 'research' in the School of the Holy Spirit.
Cheers -
So I see. Allah doesn't mind someone worshipping the prophet Jesus Christ (PBUH) as God.Originally posted by Gauze:Besides, the People of the Book, those who follow the scrolls of Abraham, the Torah and Gospels are spared from hell as well. So when the Christian does his/her missionary work, then good, go on, you are saving people by the way of Jesus. Lastly we do not subscribe to a permanent Hell, as it has been said, "A time will come in Hell when not a single man would be left in it." -
Sorry, here again. *Slaps forehead* I have a feeling thats implying Allah can accept another God. But it is not so. The Quran nor any knowledgeable Muslim will never speak that the Books of Jews and Christians do not contain Truth. Its just that the Quran has superseeded, if i may say, a distortion of the true message. So this does not in any way invalidate the essence of Truth that is still remaining the Books.
*{Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.}*
*{Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you; that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to God's will].}*
*{…and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe [to be] those who say: “We are Christians,” because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.}*
Pardon me again for straying off course of this topic. -
where is SIS? how come he has nothing to say about what Gauze has written?
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yeap murder is a sin. But in the eyes of God every one is equal, whether ur a murderer or a child that lie to your teacher. God still loves everyone just the same uncondtionally!Originally posted by laurence82:murder is a sin no matter whether its the christians who say so, or any other faiths, or any atheist...
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Murder is a BIG sin. KNN .. no wonder I hate the Crusaders so much. if you ask me whether they go heaven, I like to think NO. but then we can't judge and the whole issue is complex enuff.
The famous story about Moses, who lead the people of God, out of slavery from Egypt. Not many people know he was an ex murderer and was 80yrs old when he lead the pple out.
Why of so many pple to choose from ? Why did God use Moses ? Anyone can guess the moral ? -
Aiyoh .. isn't this common sense? A Hebrew is needed to bring the Hebrews out of Egypt. Can't possible ask a slave right? Imagine if Aaron went instead, he could well be dead before entering the court of the Pharaoh (I bet they treat him like a madman if he shouts "let my pple go!" )Originally posted by ^_____^:Why of so many pple to choose from ? Why did God use Moses ? Anyone can guess the moral ?
Moses was the prince of Egypt. He was the most suitable person then.
The moral is - even pple with no morals can still be God chosen.
Haha .. I can use King David to booster the point.
PS: was Moses an ex-murderer? That was a case of manslaughter right? A murder is a pre-mediated and planned event. His was not. -
The moral is God can use anyone, even you and me can be used mightily, has a purpose/plan on this Earth. Whether your 80 yrs old/murderer(Moses), a young boy (David killed Goliath), teenager (Timothy was a pastor of a huge congreation), uneducated (Peter and Andrew, fisherman). None of his disciples are highly educated nor very spiritualOriginally posted by Icemoon:The moral is - even pple with no morals can still be God chosen.
God often like to use the most unlikeliest candidate throughout the bible. To show us sumthing, you just have to read into it and get your own revelation
-_- zzzz ... anyone whu kills is called a murderer. manslaughterer this word does nt existsOriginally posted by Icemoon:PS: was Moses an ex-murderer? That was a case of manslaughter right? A murder is a pre-mediated and planned event. His was not. -
so all soldiers are, by default, murderers ..Originally posted by ^_____^:-_- zzzz ... anyone whu kills is called a murderer. manslaughterer this word does nt exists
pity those who have to do NS (na bei I'm one of them also) .. -
Ya lo, if that is the case, then God commanded the Israelites soldiers to murder lo. And that means the government commanded us NS personals to murder for the sake of our nation. Wah, all man are murderer. Sad.
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it really takes alot of ballz to chiong the battlefield and kill your enemies... lol got war which singapore soldier wun zhao ?? Samson did that bare hands and using the jaw of a donkey
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sweeping statement. the peeps in saf and military forums will be glad to prove you wrong.Originally posted by ^_____^:it really takes alot of ballz to chiong the battlefield and kill your enemies... lol got war which singapore soldier wun zhao ?? -
x2Originally posted by Icemoon:sweeping statement. the peeps in saf and military forums will be glad to prove you wrong.
If we dont defend the nation, where can we run to?
I mean, will war come so slowly that we have enuff time to prep ourselves and book an air ticket? -
thanks for the x2.Originally posted by laurence82:I mean, will war come so slowly that we have enuff time to prep ourselves and book an air ticket?
but then I sort of disagree with your statement above. any war will not be imminent. surely there are signs, like treaties broken, embassy evacuated .. haha
not sure if SAF recalls one division, other division soldiers can book air ticket to go "holiday" or not. -
book air ticket ?? ill hide at mrt station
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siao boh? even if MP dun catch u .. the police with red berets would.Originally posted by ^_____^:book air ticket ?? ill hide at mrt station -
U forgot SAF pre-emptive strategy?Originally posted by Icemoon:thanks for the x2.
but then I sort of disagree with your statement above. any war will not be imminent. surely there are signs, like treaties broken, embassy evacuated .. haha
not sure if SAF recalls one division, other division soldiers can book air ticket to go "holiday" or not. -
Only when the unthinkable happens .. like water supply kenna cut off. Pre-emptive refers more to the strike force, like air force and commmandos?Originally posted by laurence82:U forgot SAF pre-emptive strategy?
Unless we are going to full scale war, I don't think they will recall those not on alert red or amber.