Let's talk about Noah's Ark here
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Buddhism dont, Taoism dont, but they never call each other demonic isnt it?Originally posted by Icemoon:Haha .. the ark zoo problem .. I'm not well read on this. Can let others enlighten you on this.
Accept every principle? I have a question here - does Buddhism accept every principle in Taoism?
To compare God with nirvana .. hmm .. can compare meh? Different philosophical base leh.
Besides, you said Christians shouldnt call every principle in those faiths demonic nature, so there are some which are demonic in nature? -
Would u believe it if i tell u, there are some people who put off the work of the late pope and mother theresa?Originally posted by Icemoon:Spiritual development in Christianity is not non-existent, just that you have to receive salvation first. I see many xtians like very spiritual -filled. Look at how pple worship in charismatic churches ..
Moral values .. I think xtians too much morals liao. Cannot do this cannot do that. Cannot even abort the baby, cannot even waste sperms. Cannot gamble and rather let other countries overtake us. Cannot visit prostitutes .. na bei they even persuade prostitutes to give up their jobs in Geylang. KNN .. got even a rule prohibiting adultery.
Helping people - I mentioned the orphanages and even half-way houses. These are things very often hidden from the public. For example, everyone knows HYS from CHC, but how many of you know the social institutions adopted by CHC? How many of you know CHC involvement in 'social service'?
And like someone said, the universal truth has to be narrow-minded by definiton. It is the attitude and how Christians relate to people that makes the difference.
Sad to say, Christianity also put me off sometimes.
Precisely why i dont cling onto to anything as absolute or solid. I dont adhere to a universal truth. -
They found some wood and some brought them down the mountain. They claimed the wood were 5000 years old (meaning very old) .. I dunno how strong is their claim. Not read of people discussing this evidence.Originally posted by stupidissmart:There have been some number of expedition to mount ararat and it was found not to be there. Up till now it is still simply a claim without any verification. In the past there have been many incredible claims before and it all end up to be over optimistic. Lets put it tis way... scientifically noah ark should be totally eroded to nothingness after so many years. tat is probably why many people think tat noah ark is a wild goose chase over a ship tat either never exists or even if it do, shouldn't be around after so longBringing a pastor for a scientific expedition is really... well... unscientific... Why do u think there no historians or archaeologists wanna come along
Don't make any such comment before you watch the film lah.
First, it was not meant to be a scientific expedition. A true scientific expediton will involve many experts and equipment which the govt will surely not allow. Also, the invitation was not extended to the academic community. Why did he bring the pastor along? I let you think lor.Tat again shows something is missing here Why not prove the authenticity of their discovery ? Tat works better in guiding people to see god isn't it ? It sound more and more like a money spinning production
Money spinning? Don't think so .. after all it was only shown in selected GV cinemas and there were many screenings in churches.
Also, they did not know what they will find there before they set off. The weather could be very bad. The route is very ulu, unknown to most people except the guide. Don't think it is wise to mount a "scientific expedition" on something with so many unknowns.For earning a lot of money, why not ? Tis had been done in the past before u know
If he wants to earn money, this is the worst route he can take. No promotions, no exhibiitons (like the whole Zheng He fever now), no talks etc. I only remember the Zao Bao Life talking about this.It do help in making the bible more credible, but it is never proven. So conversely if noah ark is proven to be false, does it make the bible the biggest lie in mankind ?
I agree with you the original poster's logic is a bit flawed here.
Why don't ask Turkey to form a team to search the ark themselves ? They r a muslim country and muslim also believe in Noah ark themselves. If it is so credible, believe me turkey will have already sent a huge team over and be the one tat made tis discovery first
Hello .. you think your countrymen make it easier? Mindef don't even let ST reporters on Tekong to film the 3 door bunk. The Turkish govt do not want more activities on their mountain.Morality ? by allowing his believers to commit anything they want and yet receive salavtion ? Finding spiritual development ? Wat if it is wrong and they should be believers of Islam instead ? One need to be convinced it is real before believing in it isn't it ?
Never allow believers to anyhow mah .. those believers anyhow before they receive salvation, not anyhow after salvation.
What if it is wrong? Then too bad lor .. let's say if Islam is correct but you also bo daiji wat .. did Islam say if SIS never follow 5 pillars of Islam he will land up in hell? No right? Then ok lor .. no issue.
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'cos they don't believe in the overarching abilities of demon bah .. hahaOriginally posted by laurence82:Buddhism dont, Taoism dont, but they never call each other demonic isnt it?
Besides, you said Christians shouldnt call every principle in those faiths demonic nature, so there are some which are demonic in nature?
I don't wish to comment which principle is demonic in nature 'cos I'm not well versed in them. Personally, I don't think they have demonic principles. They just have different perspectives on our existence that's all. -
Work is work, belief is belief.Originally posted by laurence82:Would u believe it if i tell u, there are some people who put off the work of the late pope and mother theresa?
NKF has benefitted many Singaporeans, we applaud them for this, but if they are guilty of corruption then they should be taken to task.
Similarly, the work of Mother Theresa and the late Pope cannot be denied. But it is a different thing to criticise their belief. -
maybe thats y u find it hard to solidify a Christians view point ... coz it deals with universal truthsOriginally posted by laurence82:Would u believe it if i tell u, there are some people who put off the work of the late pope and mother theresa?
Precisely why i dont cling onto to anything as absolute or solid. I dont adhere to a universal truth.
anyway ... yah.. they are Mother Theresa bashers.... i dun understand y though? taking religion aside... she's really unassuming and non-threatening ... a holy person in every sense of the word...
but oh well -
I tot we are talking abt charity?Originally posted by Icemoon:Work is work, belief is belief.
NKF has benefitted many Singaporeans, we applaud them for this, but if they are guilty of corruption then they should be taken to task.
Similarly, the work of Mother Theresa and the late Pope cannot be denied. But it is a different thing to criticise their belief. -
Precisely why i dont cling onto to anything as absolute or solid. I dont adhere to a universal truth.
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They found some wood and some brought them down the mountain. They claimed the wood were 5000 years old (meaning very old) .. I dunno how strong is their claim. Not read of people discussing this evidence.
Unless a solid neutral third party validate tis claim, it remains mainly as a mere claim. There r some places in the world where u can find wood tat r more than 5000 years oldFirst, it was not meant to be a scientific expedition. A true scientific expediton will involve many experts and equipment which the govt will surely not allow. Also, the invitation was not extended to the academic community. Why did he bring the pastor along? I let you think lor
If it is not meant to be a scientific expedition, then wat is it ? A movie production or sight seeing ? Since u already knew it is not a scientific expedition, then I guess it probably can eliminate the over optimism of more rational people and can stop trying to defend since they the production crew themselves knew they can't prove it as wellMoney spinning? Don't think so .. after all it was only shown in selected GV cinemas and there were many screenings in churches.
It is not showing only in singapore u know. Why don't u answer on the question whether can they earn money from the bottom of your heart ? I heard tat they r planning on VCD and DVD sale as well...
http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1003986258/code-c/section-videos/version-all/did-83Also, they did not know what they will find there before they set off. The weather could be very bad. The route is very ulu, unknown to most people except the guide. Don't think it is wise to mount a "scientific expedition" on something with so many unknowns.
If the whole thing is a fraud, it can easily come out with all these excuses to explain itself as well. Since u admit it is not scientific, then the safest conclusion from the documentary is no conclusionIf he wants to earn money, this is the worst route he can take. No promotions, no exhibiitons (like the whole Zheng He fever now), no talks etc. I only remember the Zao Bao Life talking about this.
Com'on lah... promotion costs money and christians r already doing it for free. If a fraud wanna earn legal easy money, he can try to use religion as a cover and I can safely say, religion sells.Hello .. you think your countrymen make it easier? Mindef don't even let ST reporters on Tekong to film the 3 door bunk. The Turkish govt do not want more activities on their mountain.
I do see movies made in singapore jails and visit in the army bases of singapore from documentary and shows As said before, if there r really evidences tat Noah ark is found, I bet tat even the mullah/ pope or the president of turkey himself will visit the place. It can even earn money from increases tourism as wellNever allow believers to anyhow mah .. those believers anyhow before they receive salvation, not anyhow after salvation.
Com'on lah ! be truthful here. Haven't u seen replies made by christians tat claim faith in jesus is sufficient for salvationWhat if it is wrong? Then too bad lor .. let's say if Islam is correct but you also bo daiji wat .. did Islam say if SIS never follow 5 pillars of Islam he will land up in hell? No right? Then ok lor .. no issue.
Aiyoh... Jewish, Islam and christainity all curses non-believers and even at each other tat they will suffer eternal damnation. Don't be too hasty and put words into my moutn -
the 'flood' is only documented in the bible
it only happened in that part of the world.if it happened at all. -
You dont understand the everchanging thoughts, minds, environment of ours?Originally posted by water_rat:
So how is your anti religion forum coming along? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
the issue is not about the age of the wood (very old), but that it was dated to around the supposed time of the flood. Anyway they found many relics .. na bei even got pottery used by Noah?
Unless a solid neutral third party validate tis claim, it remains mainly as a mere claim. There r some places in the world where u can find wood tat r more than 5000 years old .. aiya dunno lah
Neutral third party .. hmm .. maybe the party who validated his claim was neutral in the first place .. lol .. dunno lah .. unless someone can find articles to shed some light on the dating .. I'm pretty neutral about this piece of evidence.If it is not meant to be a scientific expedition, then wat is it ? A movie production or sight seeing ? Since u already knew it is not a scientific expedition, then I guess it probably can eliminate the over optimism of more rational people and can stop trying to defend since they the production crew themselves knew they can't prove it as well
More than the director's personal quest for biblical truth? He was fascinated about flood since young. The crew do not need to prove it. They found empirical evidence. It is for others to offer explanation for their findings or mount expediton themselves to disprove their claim.It is not showing only in singapore u know. Why don't u answer on the question whether can they earn money from the bottom of your heart ? I heard tat they r planning on VCD and DVD sale as well...
The issue is not about making money, after all which producer wants to make a loss? And what's wrong with making some money out of the film? They're not doing it big. No fancy advertisement like some kind of Titanic movie. No movie posters. No movie mechandise. I don't think you can lump this documentary (it is not even a movie in the first place!) with other movies.If the whole thing is a fraud, it can easily come out with all these excuses to explain itself as well. Since u admit it is not scientific, then the safest conclusion from the documentary is no conclusion
You seems to commit a fallacy - by implying since they came out with those excuses, the whole thing is a fraud. Fallacy of affirming the consequent.
The audience arrive at their own conclusion. Maybe for some, the movie touches their hearts. God connects to them through this film. If you think there is no conclusion, fine with us (even though you not watched it and not going to, I bet)Com'on lah... promotion costs money and christians r already doing it for free. If a fraud wanna earn legal easy money, he can try to use religion as a cover and I can safely say, religion sells.
dunno what you talking. Who doing it for free?
Religion sells? Your head! I bet Titanic or Lord of the Rings sells better. Heh. Pop culture sells better. Well, at least having Mel Gibson as Director sells better. Well, at least Passion of Christ with all the promotion sells better than Gospel of John .. lolI do see movies made in singapore jails and visit in the army bases of singapore from documentary and shows
Chin chye lah .. army bases no big deal .. the public can access SAFTI, BMTC, the air force and navy open house and even some of the camps (like clementi camp for 2PDF Open House). But the mountain supposedly their own people also cannot access. The guide secretly climbed the mountain - that was why he could discover the Ark.As said before, if there r really evidences tat Noah ark is found, I bet tat even the mullah/ pope or the president of turkey himself will visit the place. It can even earn money from increases tourism as well
As mentioned in the film, the govt tried to stop people from climbing the mountain. They even blacklisted people. The ang moh team that wanted to climb the mountain got refused too.
From secret mountain base to tourist site - you stupid or what? Can't believe this came from someone who is stupid and yet smart. Ok, maybe you are just plain dumb.
Use your brain use your brain .. if ark is found more pple will convert to Christianity .. maybe the whole of Turkey will convert since they can go there and verify easily .. then gradually whole world will convert .. you think the mullah wants that? The pope is so old .. you want him to climb mountain .. have a heart do you?!
The pope need not visit the mountain. For what? He already believe the ark exists. The Catholics has many miracle sites .. like the spring at Lourdes. He rather go there right? Better than freeze in the cold on the mountain.Com'on lah ! be truthful here. Haven't u seen replies made by christians tat claim faith in jesus is sufficient for salvation
don't throw red herring. you aren't answering my reply. Might as well dun write anything.Aiyoh... Jewish, Islam and christainity all curses non-believers and even at each other tat they will suffer eternal damnation. Don't be too hasty and put words into my moutn
GUYS .. I JUST CONFIRM SIS IS AGAINST THE THREEE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIONS.
And he is choosing Christianity to hamtum .. 'cos Christians are way too kind. No one will declare fatwa on him. no Jewish assassain will sneak into his house and cut away his foreskin.
He is creating a big strawman now. Maybe two strawmen. JEWISH CURSES NON BELIEVERS TO ETERNAL DAMNATION? Oh .. c'mon .. -
is he against the non-monotheistic religions too?
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I guess so .. after all there is no evidence for nirvana and no rational person should believe in it.Originally posted by ben1xy:is he against the non-monotheistic religions too? -
And the concept of karma has been modified and formulated from India. Can we trust the man-made formula? Oh dear, hopes the world know what they are doing.Originally posted by Icemoon:I guess so .. after all there is no evidence for nirvana and no rational person should believe in it. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Not true lah. See the thread about the Jews' saying about Jesus. He suddenly decided to support the Jews for a while.
]GUYS .. I JUST CONFIRM SIS IS AGAINST THE THREEE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIONS.
.. [/b]
He will cling onto whichever side (except Christianity, cuz this is a Christian forum) as long as it makes him look less stupid (he wish). -
Sigh... When can Christians stop criticising other people's beliefs as "man-made"?Originally posted by jnwk:And the concept of karma has been modified and formulated from India. Can we trust the man-made formula? Oh dear, hopes the world know what they are doing.
My stand: I'm not antoganistic with any religions. Just that the claim of the Ark being found has no basis. Like what SIS has said, if the Ark was really found, wouldn't it drawn the religious leaders from all over the world? Noah's story can be found in Islam, Christianity and Judaism anyway, wouldn't they be interested to take a peep at God's will to save Noah and other first-generation animals? -
I wonder if you have watched the documentary film. In the beginning, it explains that not many can be permited to enter the kurb confidential military base. And the base is a dangerous place because of occassional crossfire by enemy or terrorist.... There is another group from US, I think, and they were rejected to enter the base to find the ark. The chinese evangelist groups have applied several time, but sometimes they are being rejected. So we know first you must apply for permission, but your application may not be successful. You must understand that the ark is situated in a rather sensitive and inaccessible place! I hope you would go and watch it or re-watch it, with a heart of wanting to find out more.Originally posted by earthlings73:Sigh... When can Christians stop criticising other people's beliefs as "man-made"?
My stand: I'm not antoganistic with any religions. Just that the claim of the Ark being found has no basis. Like what SIS has said, if the Ark was really found, wouldn't it drawn the religious leaders from all over the world? Noah's story can be found in Islam, Christianity and Judaism anyway, wouldn't they be interested to take a peep at God's will to save Noah and other first-generation animals?
When I said the concept of karma is man-made, I have basis.
The karma was indeed originally from India but "formulated" to a "complete form" in buddhism. See this: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
When I said this concept is man-made, I have basis. When asked if Buddha was a god? The answer given is: No, he was not. He did not claim that he was a god, the child of a god or even the messenger from a god. He was a man who perfected himself and taught that if we follow his example, we could perfect ourselves also. See site: http://www.buddhanet.net/ans5.htm
Please understand that the thing I wrote is based on the "correct" answer given. So is the concept of karma man-made? Yes, according to what I understand from the religious leader of this religion. Isn't it clear?
But, did I get the message wrong? Yes, maybe. So, if I interpret wrongly, please correct me. I do not wish to criticise other religions, but all I have said is not based on my own opinions or imaginations but on that official religion site. TY
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i think theorically, noah didn't bring every animal la, he brought every species, like wolves, dogs all that all under one family, so he brought one species.Originally posted by the.raven:in order to hold billions of animals, I think you will need an entire city to display it -
Yes... Most Religions/Philosophies originated from India do contain the concept of karma, the concept of cause and effect...Originally posted by jnwk:When I said the concept of karma is man-made, I have basis.
The karma was indeed originally from India but "formulated" to a "complete form" in buddhism. See this: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
Just like most Religions/Philosophies originated from Jerusalem consist of the mono-theist idea...
And Christianity borrowed most of the ideas from Judaism, isn't it? So isn't it a pot calling a kettle black? The concept of Gods exist in many many beliefs from the ancient world, from various civilisations (different civilisations have different Gods), so do not think that the concept of God was man-made? If there's only one single God, why would they only communicate with the Israelis?
Sigh... Didn't mean to challenge your religious belief, just hope that you can be sensitive of others' beliefs too. Indians believe in Karma, and Israelis believe in God. A claim that Buddhism is a copy-cat is a hint that Christianity is not original too.Originally posted by jnwk:
He's the enlightened one. Yes, he started off as a man. But after years of meditation, he was enlightened to finally understand the most important question of all: "Why are there sufferings".
When I said this concept is man-made, I have basis. When asked if Buddha was a god? The answer given is: No, he was not. He did not claim that he was a god, the child of a god or even the messenger from a god. He was a [b]man who perfected himself and taught that if we follow his example, we could perfect ourselves also. See site: http://www.buddhanet.net/ans5.htm
Please understand that the thing I wrote is based on the "correct" answer given. So is the concept of karma man-made? Yes, according to what I understand from the religious leader of this religion. Isn't it clear?
But, did I get the message wrong? Yes, maybe. So, if I interpret wrongly, please correct me. I do not wish to criticise other religions, but all I have said is not based on my own opinions or imaginations but on that official religion site. TY[/b]
The concept of God is different between Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity believe in one God that controls everything. Buddhists believe in a more naturalistic cycle of life and death and reincarnation, without the need of a God monitoring the process (pretty paganistic if you ask me). But what's more important about this religion is not whether there's a God or not, but how do we lead our daily life... -
That's the position of BBC's documentary too.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i think theorically, noah didn't bring every animal la, he brought every species, like wolves, dogs all that all under one family, so he brought one species.
Biblical scholars believe that it's 7 pairs of cleaned animals, 7 pairs of uncleaned animals, 7 pairs of birds... altogether about 200+ animals.
Which means, the flood can't be a global one. Since we have over 30 million species of animals in the present world. -
If they have good enough evidences, shouldn't they show it to the religious leaders? And through them, they can help spread the news that everyone has been waiting for. Wouldn't that be more effective in spreading God's words?Originally posted by jnwk:I wonder if you have watched the documentary film. In the beginning, it explains that not many can be permited to enter the kurb confidential military base. And the base is a dangerous place because of occassional crossfire by enemy or terrorist.... There is another group from US, I think, and they were rejected to enter the base to find the ark. The chinese evangelist groups have applied several time, but sometimes they are being rejected. So we know first you must apply for permission, but your application may not be successful. You must understand that the ark is situated in a rather sensitive and inaccessible place! I hope you would go and watch it or re-watch it, with a heart of wanting to find out more. -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
Jerusalem meh? Tot monotheism originated from Iraq?
Just like most Religions/Philosophies originated from Jerusalem consist of the mono-theist idea... -
Huh .. who are the religious leaders? I hope you are not like SIS - he said show it to the mullah .. win liao lor .. who wants to be an instrument in evangelism?Originally posted by earthlings73:If they have good enough evidences, shouldn't they show it to the religious leaders? And through them, they can help spread the news that everyone has been waiting for. Wouldn't that be more effective in spreading God's words?
The documentary claimed what they found is only the beginning. I won't argue that they have good enough evidence, but at least they manage to silence the critics who claimed there is nothing on the mountain.
I'm interested to find out the test they did on those wood. Are they really 5000 years old?
jnwk .. the film shows us pottery? supposedly from Noah's time? Dunno leh .. how come they have collection of relics from Noah's time?!