Let's talk about Noah's Ark here
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one step at a time. so you believe the great flood or not? no point saying so much if you don't even believe in great flood from any sources.Originally posted by laurence82:So, other historical texts of other culture mention the great flood, but only christianity links it to god works, so, we must believe the bible?
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It must be noted that the Hebrew Bible is not strictly only the history of the Jewish people. Accordingly, the civilization you mentioned sprung from the descendants of Noah and were separated during the Tower of Babel episode?Originally posted by earthlings73:As a good empiricist, I've managed to find all the related articles (in fact, all can be found in wikipedia if you type the correct word for search.. ha..)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_pyramids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_pyramids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubian_pyramids
Here comes the question.. Why didn't God teach the Jewish how to build pyramids?
Why God never teach ah? Simple - 'cos the practice is pagan and God taught His people to build a Temple and not a Pyramid. -
Talking to a christian is indeed a wonderful experience
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Interestingly the documentary talks about the miracle of the red snow every 20 years and the bountiful harvest after that. The villagers were shocked how come no bountiful harvest after the recent red snow. No good harvest never mind, the frequency of earthquakes also increased.Originally posted by earthlings73:ah.. throughout centuries, people are trying to find the Ark, just like people are waiting for the end of the world.. throughout centuries, there are many claims of the Ark being found and all found to be unreal..
if they managed to find it in Ararat, these 2000 years will be worth a wait..
don't wait liao. by the time we solve the mystery .. Jesus is back liao
The time is about right. Some people said the world will come to an end within 70 years after 1948 (birth of Israel as sovereign state). I think the recent red snow last one liao.
By the way, when was the last red snow ah? Forgot liao. Very recent only. -
who?Originally posted by shade343:Talking to a christian is indeed a wonderful experience
I also want to talk to him or her. -
Not many mountains are that square, begs the question whether Lishan is a natural mountain or artificial one (where is earthling our academic advisor haha ) -Originally posted by laurence82:Pyramids and lyramids-like are two diff things isnt it. Even mountains look like a humongous pyramid, if u choose to see it that way.In size, the mausoleum is larger than the Great pyramid in Egypt. Seen from afar, it is a hill overgrown with vegetation. It is believed that the tomb consists of an interior city and an exterior city. The exterior of the mausoleum is a low earth pyramid with a wide base. In 2000 years, the original 100-meter-high (328 feet) hillock has been weathered down to about 47 meters (154 feet) high, 515 meters (1,690 feet) long from south to north and 485 meters (1,591 feet) wide east to west.
source: http://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/terra_cotta_army/mausoleum_2.htm
wah leow .. and how come the height was reduced to like 1/2 in 2000 years?! -
To help you out.Originally posted by jnwk:What makes you think that the claims are untrue. The world says that it is not found and you believe? Didn't the world say that the earth was square in the past?!
You know that this thing are rather sensitive stuffs and the authory do not want to cause a religious upheaval. Who do you think qualify for the nemesis? Obviously there are many people who opposes christianity and they are trying ways to deny God. The people who can tesify they have found. The next thing is, do you believe them?
I do not know about the history of Big Bang Theory. So I can't say how much genuiene your facts are.
Okay, I gonna go liao. Will reply tmr or on Thurs.
Good nite dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
The universe was described by a metric tensor that was either expanding or shrinking, a result that Einstein himself considered wrong and he tried to fix by adding a cosmological constant. The first person to seriously apply general relativity to cosmology without the stabilizing cosmological constant was Alexander Friedmann, whose equations describe the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker universe.
In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître independently derived the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker equations and proposed, on the basis of the recession of spiral nebulae, that the universe began with the "explosion" of a "primeval atom"—what was later called the Big Bang.
Einstein couldn't believe that the Universe is expanding, hence adding a constant to his own equation to "correct" the supposed error.
Lemaitre challenged Einstein, saying that his original idea was correct, without the need to add that constant. And propose the earliest form of the Big Bang Theory.
Hubble helped to provide evidences of the Big Bang Theory by observing the sky.
Einstein later admited that adding the constant was the greatest mistake in his life.
I mean, if there's such an important find which will leave us without any doubt of the existence of God in creating the big flood the covers the world. Why hide all the evidences? But proceed to claim that they have the evidences?
If the expedition took place 12 months ago, why are they more keen to produce a movie (which need time and resource), rather than spending the resource to proof that their finds are accurate? -
China's secret pyramids - http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue11/ar11chinapyr.html
In investigating what the Chinese authorities will reveal about the pyramids, Hausdorf was told the story of an emperor, Qin Shi Huangdi, who lived between 259 and 210 B.C. Prior to his reign, bitter feuding between rival states for dominance over a splintered China went on from 475 to 221 B.C. It was Emperor Huangdi who ended the fighting. And thanks to the commentaries of historian Sima Qian, who lived from 145 to 86 B.C., we know the existence and location of the emperor's grave, beneath a hill 150 feet tall, planted with grass and trees. The hill, apparently, is man-made. According to Sima, beneath this hill is a 140-foot-tall pyramid with five terraces. The historian's chronicles state that almost 700,000 workers worked on this tomb. The earth was removed down to ground water level. This floor was then poured with molten bronze. On this platform a stone sarcophagus was laid. When the structure was completed, those who knew where the entrance was were silenced; they were entombed alive. To further disguise it, the pyramid was carefully covered with earth and grass to give the impression of a natural hill.
The pyramid's interior was quite elaborate. Sima wrote of an artificial universe painted with stars impressed upon the ceiling of the chamber in which the emperor lies. There was an entire landscape with rivers made out of mercury, somehow held in constant motion. The tomb is well protected against grave robbers, utilizing quite an ingenious security system. Crossbows with mechanical triggers make up an automatic shooting gallery, with a hail of arrows targeting intruders. For a long time, these historical commentaries were considered as mere legends. But new excavations around the outer perimeter of this hill seemed to confirm Sima's chronicles, an analysis of the earth from the immediate area of the great pyramid revealed an exceptionally high concentration of mercury. It would seem the archeologists are taking the stories seriously, as they are reticent to work around this ancient emperor's high-security tomb. We are leaving this tomb under the hill to the future, so the next generation has something to work on, says one of the leading archeologists. -
It is not a movie, but documentary. When they conducted the expediton, I guess the documentary was almost finished (though I'm not too sure they did the interviews before or after the expediton .. should be before 'cos the documentary is chronological), save for editing, mixing, etc.Originally posted by earthlings73:If the expedition took place 12 months ago, why are they more keen to produce a movie (which need time and resource), rather than spending the resource to proof that their finds are accurate?
To prove their finds, they have to revisit the site again with an international team of experts. But this is almost impossible, given the government reluctance for more activities on their "secret military base" and the foul weather. In fact they promised the govt. not to take anything from the expedition.
The place where they found the supposed ark was waterlogged. Or else they would have gotten inside. Don't think govt very happy if pple start all the drilling and machinery on their "secret military base". -
no no, the point is, all sources point to a histroical great flood, not a biblical great flood, get it?Originally posted by Icemoon:one step at a time. so you believe the great flood or not? no point saying so much if you don't even believe in great flood from any sources. -
the biblical great flood surely has to be the historical great flood, if you admit "all sources point to a historical great flood", right?Originally posted by laurence82:no no, the point is, all sources point to a histroical great flood, not a biblical great flood, get it?
One step at a time .. -
This is hogwash. The great flood are recorded in every culture, most as old or older than bible itself. Proving that the great flood exists does not directly prove the bible is written through the inspiration of the holy spirit. Therefore, yo ucan prove that the great flood mentioned in bible is true, but not everything else abt the holy spirit.Originally posted by jnwk:If Noah's ark is proven to be true, then we can prove the truthfulness of the bible. And if the bible is proven to be accurate and true, then we know that it is God's words and there is a God who created heaven and earth.
I would think that people do not believe in the One True God mainly because they deem the bible as written by falliable men. But the bible is clear that the bible is written by God's chosen 40 over people through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And if by proving the existence of Noah's ark, we know that the story of the great flood is no longer a myth and the bible can be proven to be accurate.
Have you try ready reading and studying the bible? Which verses are you skeptical about? I encourage you to resolve it. It can be done! Guidance is definitely needed.
You may wish to read the following website:
http://www.allaboutgod.com/faq/faq-main.htm
If you have not done so, I encourage you to start now.
You got to get sumthing more concrete than this. -
I am already over that step. I read abt this flood since young.Originally posted by Icemoon:the biblical great flood surely has to be the historical great flood, if you admit "all sources point to a historical great flood", right?
One step at a time ..
The amount of proof doesnt matter. Its why would someone use something that is recorded in every culture and attribute it to the work of god, if its assumed to be true. -
I need you to give weight to the evidence mah. Actually xtians don't ONLY use the great flood to give veracity to the Bible. Hehe ..Originally posted by laurence82:I am already over that step. I read abt this flood since young.
The amount of proof doesnt matter. Its why would someone use something that is recorded in every culture and attribute it to the work of god, if its assumed to be true.
You see why I need you to confirm the first step? 'cos if you are like SIS this don't believe that don't believe, then no point in discussion liao .. haha -
Give veracity to the bible in which point?Originally posted by Icemoon:I need you to give weight to the evidence mah. Actually xtians don't ONLY use the great flood to give veracity to the Bible. Hehe ..
You see why I need you to confirm the first step? 'cos if you are like SIS this don't believe that don't believe, then no point in discussion liao .. haha
Thats there is this historical great flood, or that here is this historical great flood which is the work of god?
This we must make clear.
Or how abt, the bible and other sources give veracity to the Egyptian records. So should i start praying to Ra and Horus? -
Give veracity to the bible that the flood mentioned is historical and not bullshit. The Christian faith is based on one single fundamental historical event - the death and resurrection of Christ. For it is written, "if Christ has not risen, then our faith will be in vain". If the resurrection of Christ is fiction from somebody's dream, then the whole Christian faith will collapse like a deck of cards. Not like other religions - which of them are based on one historical event or historical events? If Lao-Tze was fictitious, does that make the Tao less true? Or if Buddha received enlightenment after a dream and not under bodhi tree, will Buddhism be demolished?Originally posted by laurence82:Give veracity to the bible in which point?
Thats there is this historical great flood, or that here is this historical great flood which is the work of god?
This we must make clear.
Or how abt, the bible and other sources give veracity to the Egyptian records. So should i start praying to Ra and Horus?
Pray to Ra and Horus? For what? The Egyptian gods got frighten you with second coming and judgement day meh? They ask you to worship them 'cos they are the only gods? I think the worldview offered by any party (be it chinese, egyptian, mayan .. ) is very important. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
There, you just say it. The flood is historical event, not an historical event worked by hands of god. The god coems in from other pats of the bibles, and its just subsume a historical event as their own.
Give veracity to the bible that the flood mentioned is [b]historical and not bullshit. The Christian faith is based on one single fundamental historical event - the death and resurrection of Christ. For it is written, "if Christ has not risen, then our faith will be in vain". If the resurrection of Christ is fiction from somebody's dream, then the whole Christian faith will collapse like a deck of cards. Not like other religions - which of them are based on one historical event or historical events? If Lao-Tze was fictitious, does that make the Tao less true? Or if Buddha received enlightenment after a dream and not under bodhi tree, will Buddhism be demolished?
Pray to Ra and Horus? For what? The Egyptian gods got frighten you with second coming and judgement day meh? They ask you to worship them 'cos they are the only gods? I think the worldview offered by any party (be it chinese, egyptian, mayan .. ) is very important.[/b]
So, for your last para, anyone who have an 'armagedonic views' i must listen to them? Instead of listening to faiths that have very great impact on individual spiritual development and moral values? -
That's why a flood is not enought proof and you need an ark .. isn't it? Wait .. not only an ark but a rectangular ark (fang1 zhou1) of some dimension mentioned in the Bible.Originally posted by laurence82:There, you just say it. The flood is historical event, not an historical event worked by hands of god. The god coems in from other pats of the bibles, and its just subsume a historical event as their own.
So, for your last para, anyone who have an 'armagedonic views' i must listen to them?
I would say find out about their worldview. cults that encourage believers to commit suicide to meet god should be eliminated first. Instead of listening to faiths that have very great impact on individual spiritual development and moral values?
Also the line between faith and philosophy is blurred. Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism all started out as some kind of philosophy. We can listen to those faiths - why not? I hope no xtian is suggesting every principle in those faiths is demonic in nature. Even the Pope respects the Dalai Lama right? -
I think many non-believers have the wrong expectation of Christianity. The Bible is not about morality and helping people find spiritual development. It is about God and our relationship with Him. Christianity is about God's saving grace through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.Originally posted by laurence82:So, for your last para, anyone who have an 'armagedonic views' i must listen to them? Instead of listening to faiths that have very great impact on individual spiritual development and moral values? -
An ark that can carry that many animals?
And yes to ur second para, christians would accept every principle subcriebd by those faith?
FOr example, in Buddhism, god is considered to be below the state of nirvana. They dont accept jesus as a saviour, at most as an enlightened being. Taoism..funny, who really believe in I Ching here? I only know honeybunzie got take fortune teling b4... -
Precisely why i look for faiths that harp on spiritual development and moral values and helping people.Originally posted by Icemoon:I think many non-believers have the wrong expectation of Christianity. The Bible is not about morality and helping people find spiritual development. It is about God and our relationship with Him. Christianity is about God's saving grace through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Who cares abt the universal truth when it makes people too narrowminded, dogmatic and put them at conflicts?
I dont have this expectation of christianity, its because of what it is that put me off... -
http://www.gotquestions.org/earth-age.html
Lets put the problem of these 2 sites simply. They assume tat science is wrong without giving any evidences why they think of it tis way. They can even come out and claim tat light does not travel at the same speed when it was never observed to be changing. If they claim tat light changes speed, prove it then the arguments made sense. Otheriwse if any claims can be made without justifications, then stories like snow white etc can be made believable as well.
http://www.gotquestions.org/star-light.htmlI would guess that God did all these because He loves His creations. And according to His pure justice, character, will, and plan, these things required to happen. Yes, He could simply destroy everything BUT the bible tells us, "For God so love the world....."
God had already decided to destroy the world in a great flood. If he had already decided to destroy the world, might as well erase them in an easier fashion by flicking his figners and made them dissappeared etc. Is tis justice, character and plan ? Sound like really no planning..."As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. "(Isaiah 55:9)
From these statement, it can be deduced tat u never really understand god, and it might as well be either hoax, devil in disguise or maybe even an alien. It really is an excuse tat conveniently forget all the things they cannot explain.
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)The Parable of the Weeds
If god is omnipotent, he coul have easily remove the weeds without uprooting the wheat.
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "It has indeed been found! The exact location has been found. I watched the documentary film already. They have photos as proof. Actually they want to go down the ark which is buried under snow, but because the ark is filled with water, and the ark or the "cave" that leads inside the ark is too wide and perhaps deep, it will be too dangerous to enter. They said that they would have to wait for the water to dry off before they can enter the ark to take photographs.
There have been some number of expedition to mount ararat and it was found not to be there. Up till now it is still simply a claim without any verification. In the past there have been many incredible claims before and it all end up to be over optimistic. Lets put it tis way... scientifically noah ark should be totally eroded to nothingness after so many years. tat is probably why many people think tat noah ark is a wild goose chase over a ship tat either never exists or even if it do, shouldn't be around after so longthe actual expedition which claimed to find the ark .. no historians or archaeologists on the team. not that they dun want .. 'cos the guide say can only bring two pple (hmm did they count the camera man?) .. so the director brought the pastor along .. lol
Bringing a pastor for a scientific expedition is really... well... unscientific... Why do u think there no historians or archaeologists wanna come along However, the General Director Men-fei Yun said that the documentary did not aim to prove the authenticity of their discovery, but focused on guiding people to see God and His judgement through the Flood
Tat again shows something is missing here Why not prove the authenticity of their discovery ? Tat works better in guiding people to see god isn't it ? It sound more and more like a money spinning productionI don't think as a christians themselves, they want to lie. Worse till, lie to the whole world by showing false photographs and videos, tainting the name of Jesus Christ
For earning a lot of money, why not ? Tis had been done in the past before u knowIf Noah's ark is proven to be true, then we can prove the truthfulness of the bible.
It do help in making the bible more credible, but it is never proven. So conversely if noah ark is proven to be false, does it make the bible the biggest lie in mankind ?The world says that it is not found and you believe? Didn't the world say that the earth was square in the past?!
Christians say tat the earth is square in the past for the longest of time because the bible suggest the world is flat...To prove their finds, they have to revisit the site again with an international team of experts. But this is almost impossible, given the government reluctance for more activities on their "secret military base" and the foul weather
Why don't ask Turkey to form a team to search the ark themselves ? They r a muslim country and muslim also believe in Noah ark themselves. If it is so credible, believe me turkey will have already sent a huge team over and be the one tat made tis discovery firstI think many non-believers have the wrong expectation of Christianity. The Bible is not about morality and helping people find spiritual development. It is about God and our relationship with Him. Christianity is about God's saving grace through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Morality ? by allowing his believers to commit anything they want and yet receive salavtion ? Finding spiritual development ? Wat if it is wrong and they should be believers of Islam instead ? One need to be convinced it is real before believing in it isn't it ? -
Spiritual development in Christianity is not non-existent, just that you have to receive salvation first. I see many xtians like very spiritual -filled. Look at how pple worship in charismatic churches ..Originally posted by laurence82:Precisely why i look for faiths that harp on spiritual development and moral values and helping people.
Who cares abt the universal truth when it makes people too narrowminded, dogmatic and put them at conflicts?
I dont have this expectation of christianity, its because of what it is that put me off... Moral values .. I think xtians too much morals liao. Cannot do this cannot do that. Cannot even abort the baby, cannot even waste sperms. Cannot gamble and rather let other countries overtake us. Cannot visit prostitutes .. na bei they even persuade prostitutes to give up their jobs in Geylang. KNN .. got even a rule prohibiting adultery.
Helping people - I mentioned the orphanages and even half-way houses. These are things very often hidden from the public. For example, everyone knows HYS from CHC, but how many of you know the social institutions adopted by CHC? How many of you know CHC involvement in 'social service'?
And like someone said, the universal truth has to be narrow-minded by definiton. It is the attitude and how Christians relate to people that makes the difference.
Sad to say, Christianity also put me off sometimes. -
double.
PS: even double post contributes to ratings right? -
Haha .. the ark zoo problem .. I'm not well read on this. Can let others enlighten you on this.Originally posted by laurence82:An ark that can carry that many animals?
And yes to ur second para, christians would accept every principle subcriebd by those faith?
FOr example, in Buddhism, god is considered to be below the state of nirvana. They dont accept jesus as a saviour, at most as an enlightened being. Taoism..funny, who really believe in I Ching here? I only know honeybunzie got take fortune teling b4...
Accept every principle? I have a question here - does Buddhism accept every principle in Taoism?
To compare God with nirvana .. hmm .. can compare meh? Different philosophical base leh.