Let's talk about Noah's Ark here
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you are going to start our discussion about evolution and mutation again.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u follow the bible u will realise tat it only reach our time in about 5000 years. Tis time period is too short for evolution to take place, if u believe in its -
you must note that the ark didint require a broiler room, engine room, fuselage, etc.Originally posted by stupidissmart:nowsaday tis is consider a medium size ship
even if it's just a medium size ship, technically it still can hold all the animals in there. -
Also, although it rained for 40 days. the flood subsided only after 150 days.
8:3 and the water receded steadily from the land, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.
8:4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the foothills of Ararat. -
if half of the animals in there hibernate like what polar bears and other animals do today, there may just be enough food. Possible eh?Originally posted by fandango:Also, although it rained for 40 days. the flood subsided only after 150 days.
8:3 and the water receded steadily from the land, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.
8:4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the foothills of Ararat. -
you are going to start our discussion about evolution and mutation again
But u r the one tat start talking about changes of animals after a period of time. Isn't tat already evolution ?
If u believe in evolution, then it states tat animals changes very very gradually, over millions of years to be wat we see today. Tis is really unlike the changes describe in your explanation tat these major changes occur in a mere 5000 yearsyou must note that the ark didnt require a broiler room, engine room, fuselage, etc.
Even so, it is again as stated tat the whole species of beetles already need an ark 10 times the size described. It can't hold all the animals in there. Tis is especially true since it says tat some species need 7 animals instead of 2 and also for it to float it need a lot of empty space.
even if it's just a medium size ship, technically it still can hold all the animals in there.Noah's Ark isnt really an ordinary Ark. Perhaps God Bless it and made it float real good.
There is really nothing tat says tat god make the ship real good tat it defy physics principles I mean if u totally disregard physics principles and actual scenario, u might as well just make ultra incredible claims such as food dropping from the sky, animals suddenly shrink to become germs size, or better still send the ark to holiday in wonderland before sending back to earth after the rain. I mean u can just become totally irrational and come out with anything your imagination can fetch. If u wanna say tat way, then u r really giving circular arguments
If u say tat way, then why don't god make things simple with his infinite powers by just erasing the creatures he do not want instead of trying so many stunts such as asking someone to build an ark, making the animals go to tat ark, finding such a big amount of water, raining for so long, making the ship float when it should sink etcAlso, although it rained for 40 days. the flood subsided only after 150 days.
Doesn't tat make the story more unbelievable...if half of the animals in there hibernate like what polar bears and other animals do today, there may just be enough food. Possible eh?
Lets face it. Most animals don't hibernate.
Anyway u also bring about an interesting question on how does a creature tat need a cold climate such as polar bear survive with creatures tat live in hot climate stay together in a ship. Animals do die if u put them in the wrong environment and climate -
Simple answer... God sustained them!!!Originally posted by stupidissmart:Lets face it. Most animals don't hibernate.
Anyway u also bring about an interesting question on how does a creature tat need a cold climate such as polar bear survive with creatures tat live in hot climate stay together in a ship. Animals do die if u put them in the wrong environment and climate
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I quoted an interesting article written by atheist or freethinker.
http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1993/2/2noah93.html
Yes, if we concede the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent deity who personally engineered every phase of the flood, then presumably that would make anything possible. If we are going to do that, however, we will have to give this deity another characteristic. In addition to being omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibeneficent, etc., etc., etc., we will also have to make him omnisilly. He could have just said the word or waved his hand or whatever omnipotent deities do to perform miracles, and thus caused all human life on earth to die except for Noah's family, and if he had also wanted to include dumb animals in his carnage, he could have spoken and caused all animal life, except replenishment stock, to die too. Instead, he chose to have a man build a boat that had to be miraculously stocked with animal life and then miraculously sustained through a miraculous flood of thousands of inches of miraculously produced rain supplemented by miraculously emptied "fountains of the deep."
If one wants to believe that, then the story makes perfectly good sense. If, however, anyone puts any premium at all on common sense, he will have to consider the story a myth from prescientific times
In short, the story defies all common sense -
Next!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Simple answer... God sustained them!!! 
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I thought the chinese evanglist in HK claims that they have already found the exact location? Yes , I believe they will locate it one day. As for display, I would doubt it. Has you people watch the documentary film "The days of Noah" in selected GV cinema?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Do you all think there is a possibility that the archaeologists some day will manage to locate and dig it out for display in the museum??
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you went for his talk recently in sg? i assume you are based in sg.Originally posted by jnwk:I thought the chinese evanglist in HK claims that they have already found the exact location? -
What talk? I think i hear b4 that there is some kind of talk but I dun know where and when is it. I guess my previous msg has given enough hints for your assumption. I haven't watch the film yet but planning to watch it soon.Originally posted by Icemoon:you went for his talk recently in sg? i assume you are based in sg.
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It's a sumerian mythodology which was conveniently borrowed by the Jewish priest.
BBC released a documentary to discuss about the story of the Ark. An objective study, from both theology and historian finds. I can't remember everything. And for fear of quoting the wrong information, I will go watch this afternoon and share with the rest later. -
Hi Fandango,Originally posted by fandango:you are going to start our discussion about evolution and mutation again.
You may wish to read these FAQ:
http://www.gotquestions.org/earth-age.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/star-light.html -
What is sumerian mythodology ?Originally posted by earthlings73:It's a sumerian mythodology which was conveniently borrowed by the Jewish priest.
BBC released a documentary to discuss about the story of the Ark. An objective study, from both theology and historian finds. I can't remember everything. And for fear of quoting the wrong information, I will go watch this afternoon and share with the rest later.
Anyway, you may wish to go to these sites:
http://www.thedaysofnoah.com
http://www.thedaysofnoah.com/en_index.asp
http://www.gospelpost.com/article/culture/1217/section/media.evangelism.featuring.documentary.of.the.days.of.noah/1.htm -
If the Ark proves to be a historical find, then it doesn't matter whether it came from sumerian or egyptian or whatever mythology right? At least the bible was the first to give it credibility.Originally posted by earthlings73:It's a sumerian mythodology which was conveniently borrowed by the Jewish priest. -
yeah .. u mentioned GV cinemas .. so u shd be in SG. Me too slow never notice.Originally posted by jnwk:What talk? I think i hear b4 that there is some kind of talk but I dun know where and when is it. I guess my previous msg has given enough hints for your assumption. I haven't watch the film yet but planning to watch it soon.
The talk was by another pastor from HK, dunno whether related to the movie. I saw the video of his talk at home .. very interesting if you are a christian. I think he visited the site before the movie was made. -
maybe stupidissmart might want to comment on those articles.Originally posted by jnwk:Hi Fandango,
You may wish to read these FAQ:
http://www.gotquestions.org/earth-age.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/star-light.html -
I watched the film .. maybe i shd start a topic to discuss .. hmm .. pull up ratings too .. hahaOriginally posted by jnwk:What talk? I think i hear b4 that there is some kind of talk but I dun know where and when is it. I guess my previous msg has given enough hints for your assumption. I haven't watch the film yet but planning to watch it soon.
The evangelist I was talking about was actually in the film. The pastor proffy who went with them during their first expedition.
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I watched it today. I strongly encourage and recommend everyone, believers, non-believers to watch it.Originally posted by Icemoon:I watched the film .. maybe i shd start a topic to discuss .. hmm .. pull up ratings too .. haha
The evangelist I was talking about was actually in the film. The pastor proffy who went with them during their first expedition. -
Hi stupidissmart,Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u say tat way, then why don't god make things simple with his infinite powers by just erasing the creatures he do not want instead of trying so many stunts such as asking someone to build an ark, making the animals go to tat ark, finding such a big amount of water, raining for so long, making the ship float when it should sink etc
I would guess that God did all these because He loves His creations. And according to His pure justice, character, will, and plan, these things required to happen. Yes, He could simply destroy everything BUT the bible tells us, "For God so love the world....."
The bible also tells us:
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. "(Isaiah 55:9)
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)
Read the parable of the weeds and think about it? Does the parable of the weeds shed some light on why there is suffering in this fallen world and why God has allow suffering? "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28 ) And God still has ultimate control over everything.
The Parable of the Weeds
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
(Matthew 13:24-30) -
Hi stupidissmart,Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u say tat way, then why don't god make things simple with his infinite powers by just erasing the creatures he do not want instead of trying so many stunts such as asking someone to build an ark, making the animals go to tat ark, finding such a big amount of water, raining for so long, making the ship float when it should sink etc
I would think that God did all these because He loves His creations. And according to His pure justice, character, will, and plan, these things required to happen. Yes, He could simply destroy everything BUT the bible tells us, "For God so love the world....."
The bible also tells us:
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. "(Isaiah 55:9)
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)
Read the parable of the weeds and think about it? Does the parable of the weeds shed some light on why there is suffering in this fallen world and why God has allow suffering? "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28 ) And God still has ultimate control over everything.
The Parable of the Weeds
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
(Matthew 13:24-30) -
Ah.. according to the BBC documentary.. it has not been found..Originally posted by Icemoon:If the Ark proves to be a historical find, then it doesn't matter whether it came from sumerian or egyptian or whatever mythology right? At least the bible was the first to give it credibility.
Those who claimed they had found relied on certain shadows at Mt Arafat (sp?). But scientists had shown that they were reading too much into the patterns of the shadows..
And, the story Noah is nothing like as described in the Bible.. =p There is a flood, but the flood took place only at a certain Sumerian region..
Ah.. Sorry, I did not watch it yesterday.. Busy firefighting.. Will do so soon.. Will take some notes to share.. -
It has indeed been found! The exact location has been found. I watched the documentary film already. They have photos as proof. Actually they want to go down the ark which is buried under snow, but because the ark is filled with water, and the ark or the "cave" that leads inside the ark is too wide and perhaps deep, it will be too dangerous to enter. They said that they would have to wait for the water to dry off before they can enter the ark to take photographs.Originally posted by earthlings73:Ah.. according to the BBC documentary.. it has not been found..
Those who claimed they had found relied on certain shadows at Mt Arafat (sp?). But scientists had shown that they were reading too much into the patterns of the shadows..
And, the story Noah is nothing like as described in the Bible.. =p There is a flood, but the flood took place only at a certain Sumerian region..
Ah.. Sorry, I did not watch it yesterday.. Busy firefighting.. Will do so soon.. Will take some notes to share..
When is the BBC documentary dated? Perhaps it is outdated and whatsoever. The expedition for this recent documentary file dated last year. The suspected resting place of the remains of the Noah's Ark was found by the expedition crew led by The Media Evangelism Limited on 19 October 2004, around two months before the tsunami.
I strongly encourage you to watch. -
oh gosh .. i also watched it on monday. could we be in the same cinema? lolOriginally posted by jnwk:I watched it today. I strongly encourage and recommend everyone, believers, non-believers to watch it. -
Ah.. The BBC documentary was made slightly earlier than that.. Found this link, which is an excellent summary of the documentary..Originally posted by jnwk:It has indeed been found! The exact location has been found. I watched the documentary film already. They have photos as proof. Actually they want to go down the ark which is buried under snow, but because the ark is filled with water, and the ark or the "cave" that leads inside the ark is too wide and perhaps deep, it will be too dangerous to enter. They said that they would have to wait for the water to dry off before they can enter the ark to take photographs.
When is the BBC documentary dated? Perhaps it is outdated and whatsoever. The expedition for this recent documentary file dated last year. The suspected resting place of the remains of the Noah's Ark was found by the expedition crew led by The Media Evangelism Limited on 19 October 2004, around two months before the tsunami.
I strongly encourage you to watch.
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/13495.htm
They did not argue that the Ark is fake.. Since most mythology have facts in them..
But then, it's equally important to know what's real and what's not from the mythology.. Which is exactly what they did.. =p
Another example would be the finding of Troy.. It just proved that Troy existed but nothing else.. =p
Okay.. did more search about the expedition mentioned in your post..
6 months before the expedition:
[/b]Noah's Ark Found? Turkey Expedition Planned for Summer[/b]
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0427_040427_noahsark.html
6 months later:
Noah's Ark Quest Dead in Water -- Was It a Stunt?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0920_040920_noahs_ark.html
will the ark ever be found? maybe yes, maybe no.. depending on how well mother earth protects the Ark.. but then, finding the ark itself just helps to solve only one small part of the mystery revolving ard the ark..