Originally posted by breytonhartge:err...??
John 1
The Eternal Word
[b] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
JohnÂ’s Witness: The True Light
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh
[b]14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”
16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.[/b]
you saidOriginally posted by shade343:err...??
Please readOriginally posted by shade343:Correct. John 1 says that all this came from The Father. It didnt say that all things came from Jesus. From the Father came Jesus. Thus The father is not Jesus.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Oh. I get what you are trying to say. Jesus is a god. That is correct. But He still came from the Father as mention in John 1.1
Please read
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the [b]Word was God.
then read John 1:14-15
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” [/b]
Originally posted by shade343:John 1:3
Oh. I get what you are trying to say. Jesus is a god. That is correct. But He still came from the Father as mention in John 1.1
Heres another excerpt:
10 He was in the world, and the world was created[b] through Him, yet the world did not know Him.
It was created through him. not BY him.[/b]
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Its says the WORD WAS WITH GOD. Jesus was with God. Jesus CAME FROM GOD.
John 1:3
3 All things were made through Him, and [b]without Him nothing was made that was made.
so from here we see that no Jesus, nothing was made... therefore Jesus made the angels. How else do you explain verse 3? Jesus made the angels.
You have it all wrong... Jesus is not a god. JESUS is GOD. Jesus is the Word. The Word here in John 1 describes Jesus. It says and I quote, the Word was GOD. Please note that in John1, Word is spelt with a capital W signifying diety. It did not say that the Word was a god, it says the WORD was GOD. Jesus did not come from the Father, He already was when God was. Read John1 again, the In the beginning was the Word... and the Word was with God.
[/b]
Originally posted by Icemoon:Not really. I had no such thoughts on why the author chose to write that way. But it is clear to me that the paragraph ditinguishes clearly who is jesus and who is The Father.
[b]shade343, I ask you one question - have you wondered why John 1:3 read very redundant, like the author so luo1 suo1?
It was intentionally written that way, if you not realized ..
[/b]
In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternall begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
The Son of God, the second Person in the Trinity, being very and eternal God, of one substance, and equal with the Father, did, when the fullness of time was come, take upon him man's nature, with all the essential properties and common infirmities thereof; yet without sin: being conceived by he power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the Virgin Mary, of her substance. So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion. Which person is very God and very man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and man.
The verse was written that way to affirm the nature of Christ against gnosticism prevalent when John was written.Originally posted by shade343:Not really. I had no such thoughts on why the author chose to write that way. But it is clear to me that the paragraph ditinguishes clearly who is jesus and who is The Father.
and still you miss it... the Word was GOD. Jesus was not created, He already was.... God did not create Jesus. Jesus was already. He did not come from GOD. HE IS GOD.Originally posted by shade343:Its says the WORD WAS WITH GOD. Jesus was with God. Jesus CAME FROM GOD.
Correct he is God. Jesus is a God. But he is not The Father. He is the son.Originally posted by breytonhartge:and still you miss it... the Word was GOD. Jesus was not created, He already was.... God did not create Jesus. Jesus was already. He did not come from GOD. HE IS GOD.
He is the Son. Of course the Father is different from the Son. Or it would be a heresy.Originally posted by shade343:Correct he is God. Jesus is a God. But he is not The Father. He is the son.
The son (Jesus) and the Father (God) are one. GOD and Jesus are one and the same. There is no heresy. Jesus is not a GOD, HE is the GOD, He is as much GOD as GOD is GOD.Originally posted by shade343:Correct he is God. Jesus is a God. But he is not The Father. He is the son.
Make up your mind, either Jesus is GOD or Jesus is a God. These two things may sound the same but they mean very different things.Originally posted by shade343:Correct he is God. Jesus is a God. But he is not The Father. He is the son.
Is God in Lucifer?Originally posted by YummyGummy:Does it really matter who i pray to.I can pray to a stone and still find enlightment because god is in everyone and everything...
Nope. I disagree. Jesus is the Son. He is a God as he came form the Father. The Father is The Father who is God of all. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are of the same source. But they are not equivalent to each other.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The son (Jesus) and the Father (God) are one. GOD and Jesus are one and the same. There is no heresy. Jesus is not a GOD, HE is the GOD, He is as much GOD as GOD is GOD.
I have problems with the highlighted. If Jesus is a God do you mean there are many Gods?Originally posted by shade343:Nope. I disagree. Jesus is the Son. He is a God as he came form the Father. The Father is The Father who is God of all. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are of the same source. But they are not equivalent to each other.
Yes. I believe there are other Gods out there who came from The Father.Originally posted by Icemoon:I have problems with the highlighted. If Jesus is a God do you mean there are many Gods?
The rest are ok and seem to fit into orthodox theology.
The Trinity befuddles even the greatest minds cos it is simply incomprehensible. On one hand we have to emphasize the distinct nature of Christ as different from the Father and the Holy Ghost. On the other hand, we have to stress that Jesus is fully God and so is the Holy Ghost. Each end of the spectrum is a heresy.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The son (Jesus) and the Father (God) are one. GOD and Jesus are one and the same. There is no heresy. Jesus is not a GOD, HE is the GOD, He is as much GOD as GOD is GOD.
Enuff said. This is heresy. Dealt with by the Early Church.Originally posted by shade343:Yes. I believe there are other Gods out there who came from The Father.
What is the definition of heresy?Originally posted by Icemoon:Enuff said. This is heresy. Dealt with by the Early Church.