Heaven and hell
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To me it is a metaphorical expression, if you go to hell means you do not have an established relationship with god if you go to heaven means you had a good relationship with him.
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You only go to hell if your soul is so incorrigible that it deserved eternal damnation. But all souls go to Heaven to be judged.
After judgement,depending on their actions on earth, some get rebirth, some goes to purgatory, some goes to hell ,some gets permission to stay in heaven for a period of time and a few selected people are allowed to merge with The Father. -
How do you define your "good" relationship? How do you define a "bad" relationship... this statement is too sweeping and arbitary... what sort of covenant are you under? OT covenant is by salvation by law, which you will never attain unless you can keep all the law without failing in one little aspect... not just the ten commandments, but the other "commandments" which are also found in the book of deuteronomy which number over 300.Originally posted by chronicles:To me it is a metaphorical expression, if you go to hell means you do not have an established relationship with god if you go to heaven means you had a good relationship with him.
NT covenant is salvation by grace through faith. It is a gift from God so that no man may boast.
The Bible says, no man shall come to the Father except through Me. Ie...through Jesus. Unless you are a jew, then what basis do you have to say that you will go to Heaven or hell based on the relationship you have with God? The Bible also does say that in the end times, many will call upon the name of God and say that they did this or that thing in His name, but God will say to them, away with you evil doers for I do not know you.
The statement you make presupposes that you believe in the God of the Jews, the God in the Bible... not some other "god".... do you believe in God? If you do, then do you believe in Jesus? If you do, then do you believe that He died to save you from your sins? Do you belive that all are sinners... yourself included and thus need a saviour? Is your name written in the book of life? This will determine whether you go to Heaven or hell. Ball is in your court, your choice, you choose your path. Time is ticking.... Jesus is coming back SOON!
As a gentile (anybody other than a jew is a gentile) your relationship with God does not determine whether you go to Heaven or hell... only the jews have a standard by which God can judge them... and only they can lay claim to this covenant which will last forever... -
Talk about 'socialisation'...?Originally posted by chronicles:To me it is a metaphorical expression, if you go to hell means you do not have an established relationship with god if you go to heaven means you had a good relationship with him.
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God does not demand full marks from the Jews. Cos when the covenant was given, man was already not perfect.Originally posted by breytonhartge:OT covenant is by salvation by law, which you will never attain unless you can keep all the law without failing in one little aspect... not just the ten commandments, but the other "commandments" which are also found in the book of deuteronomy which number over 300.
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God does not deman full marks from the Jews? are you sure? If that was the case, He would not demand sacrifice for the atonement of sin.Originally posted by Icemoon:God does not demand full marks from the Jews. Cos when the covenant was given, man was already not perfect.
But the bible also does say, be ye perfect as your Heavenly father is perfect. -
so now I ask you .. with the Temple razed to the ground and hence no sacrifice is performed today .. how should Jews atone for their sins? Cannnot atone then how?Originally posted by breytonhartge:God does not deman full marks from the Jews? are you sure? If that was the case, He would not demand sacrifice for the atonement of sin.
But the bible also does say, be ye perfect as your Heavenly father is perfect.
Perfect in what way? From your implication, perfect as in keep every commandments? -
for if you are not as perfect as ye heavenly father, you cant merge with him.Originally posted by breytonhartge:God does not deman full marks from the Jews? are you sure? If that was the case, He would not demand sacrifice for the atonement of sin.
But the bible also does say, be ye perfect as your Heavenly father is perfect.
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That is why Jesus had to die for us, as the atonement and sacrifice for our sins.Originally posted by shade343:for if you are not as perfect as ye heavenly father, you cant merge with him.
Rom 3:20-31
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Thus from here we see that the jews are justified by faith and the gentiles through faith. -
Jesus atoned for their sins already. That is why He had to die for us. We are seen perfect in Gods sight because of the redemptive blood of Christ who died for us once and for all so that all men may have eternal life and be judged righteous by God.Originally posted by Icemoon:so now I ask you .. with the Temple razed to the ground and hence no sacrifice is performed today .. how should Jews atone for their sins? Cannnot atone then how?
Perfect in what way? From your implication, perfect as in keep every commandments? -
This argument downplays justification and sanctification?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Jesus atoned for their sins already. That is why He had to die for us.
It is like .. if Jesus died for us .. then is there a need to accept salvation? Liddat no need to preach liao. Cos Jesus had washed away everyone's sins, past, present and future. -
I think when Jesus said "eternal life" he meant being able to merge with The Father. But If you are weighed down by your Karma, you would be unable to merge with the Light.Originally posted by Icemoon:This argument downplays justification and sanctification?
It is like .. if Jesus died for us .. then is there a need to accept salvation? Liddat no need to preach liao. Cos Jesus had washed away everyone's sins, past, present and future. -
From a Christian standpoint, Karma has nothing to do with it... you are either saved and therefore with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit or you are not saved and in hell...Originally posted by shade343:I think when Jesus said "eternal life" he meant being able to merge with The Father. But If you are weighed down by your Karma, you would be unable to merge with the Light. -
No it does not, Jesus himself is the reason for our justification and sanctification... Ephesians 1:7 In Him (Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace...Originally posted by Icemoon:This argument downplays justification and sanctification?
It is like .. if Jesus died for us .. then is there a need to accept salvation? Liddat no need to preach liao. Cos Jesus had washed away everyone's sins, past, present and future.It is like .. if Jesus died for us .. then is there a need to accept salvation? Liddat no need to preach liao. Cos Jesus had washed away everyone's sins, past, present and future.
Percisely! But this redemption comes through acceptance of Christ as our Lord and Saviour. No acceptance and confession... no salvation, no redemption and therefore no justification and sanctification.. therefore this is why we still "preach" (I prefer the term share the good news) -
Hi to Everyone! ~ I am new here.
Not quite sure how this board operates so will just submit this much before typing my comment. Thanks. -
hello back... and God Bless you.Originally posted by Kathyjoyful2day:Hi to Everyone! ~ I am new here.
Not quite sure how this board operates so will just submit this much before typing my comment. Thanks. -
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Anticipation of death is worse than death itself.>>
"Heaven and Hell," and interesting topic.
I have written songs about Heaven, and done some songs and poems in calligraphy too. ~ But not about Hell.
I believe what the Bible teaches about both places.
The problem is that we all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. And that includes spiritual death.
But the gift of Eternal life is though Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus tasted death for each of us to make it possible for each person to attain forgiveness of sins and be reconciled to God through faith in His shed Blood. But that is not automatic. It takes faith in Christ Jesus to appropriate what He did for us.
Sin cannot go into Heaven. And those who have unforgiven sins will not go to Heaven. So what is the solution for those who want to go to Heaven?
First of all, a person needs to recognize his/her need for Jesus Christ.
Those who do not acknowledge their sins are in a somewhat dangerous position because they do not see their need to be forgiven. Also,
they are usually quite prideful and do not want to acknowledge Christ.
Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the third day. We will be raised also someday. I look forward to Heaven. But, the peace with God now, through faith in Jesus Christ is something that I am very thankful for too.
Every day I feel thankful that Jesus dwells within my heart. The joy of the Lord is my strength. I am very thankful for everything that Jesus did for me.
And I hope that as you are reading this you will realize that God also loves you and wants to forgive your sins and get rid of that guilt and shame.
Also, blessings to those of you who already have Christ Jesus dwelling in your hearts through faith.
Sincerely,
Kathreen
P. S. I was a Grandma before ever hearing that Jesus wants to dwell in our hearts. So I really am thankful! -
breytonhartge,
Thanks for the welcome! Blessings to you and yours!
Sincerely,
Kathreen -
Heaven & Hell are the state of mind. It is not a place.
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About the Jews and salvation:
In this dispensation - salvation is the same for them as it is for anyone else.
That is to say, they can be saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
They also need their sins forgiven to get into Heaven.
But they stay stuck in the old Law it seems, at least those who do believe in God at all.
Many do not believe in God - just like the rest of humanity.
Jesus is the narrow way to God. The other ways lead to destruction.
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Pride caused Satan to get kicked out of Heaven.
And pride will keep many people from entering Heaven. -
SevenEleven
A state of mind?
Won't you be surprised? Yes - indeed! -
-Originally posted by shade343:You only go to hell if your soul is so incorrigible that it deserved eternal damnation. But all souls go to Heaven to be judged.
After judgement,depending on their actions on earth, some get rebirth, some goes to purgatory, some goes to hell ,some gets permission to stay in heaven for a period of time and a few selected people are allowed to merge with The Father.
Actually it is while we are on earth that we need the rebirth so that our spirit will be ready for Heaven.
For that to happen, it takes repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ.
Faith takes action. We believe in Christ Jesus - confess our sins to Him and receive His forgiveness and salvation.
The Bible tells us that we can know if we are living in faith.
"Examine yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Do you not know that Christ Jesus lives in you? Unless of course, you should fail the test."
(Please read 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Blessings,
Kathreen
http://Kathyjoyful2day.dotphoto.com -
Thanks, it's very edifying.Originally posted by Kathyjoyful2day:-
Actually it is while we are on earth that we need the rebirth so that our spirit will be ready for Heaven.
For that to happen, it takes repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ.
Faith takes action. We believe in Christ Jesus - confess our sins to Him and receive His forgiveness and salvation.
The Bible tells us that we can know if we are living in faith.
"Examine yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Do you not know that Christ Jesus lives in you? Unless of course, you should fail the test."
(Please read 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Blessings,
Kathreen
http://Kathyjoyful2day.dotphoto.com -
M©+square
Thank you - that was a surprise to see your post even before I could correct the post I was making.
I was trying to put a link in to click on
but guess I can't figure how to do that yet.
Blessings,
Kathreen -
WElcome.Originally posted by Kathyjoyful2day:M©+square
Thank you - that was a surprise to see your post even before I could correct the post I was making.
I was trying to put a link in to click on
but guess I can't figure how to do that yet.
Blessings,
Kathreen
Basic URL posting:
step 1 : Click twice on 'URL' button located on the extreme top right.
It should look like this >>> [url][/url ]
step 2 : Paste/type in the url address of the website you wish to present. E.g www.yahoo.com
>>> [url]www.yahoo.com[/url ]
step 3 : Submit post.