READ THIS and reply.....
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its not the persistence, rather its some words that come out from their mouth from few people...
i must be more specific, lest someone pounce on the chance to say i pian jian, brush the whole lot with same brush yada yada... -
I think they are trying to make a small matter big.Originally posted by ben1xy:wah.......... i made a statement only ...............
i said 'debates nv win converts' ........ did i say that we shld not get into debates?
u r looking too much into my comments dude
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egging him on?Originally posted by jnwk:I think they are trying to make a small matter big.
are u good at office politics?
by the way, this is a question, not a suggestion, lest someone misread my posts again....
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it's getting hot in this forum!Originally posted by laurence82:egging him on?
are u good at office politics?
by the way, this is a question, not a suggestion, lest someone misread my posts again....
lol
come come all ... cool down -
i have to beg for ur forgiveness, but i cantOriginally posted by ben1xy:it's getting hot in this forum!
lol
come come all ... cool down
someone aim me for attacking christianity, when i am aiming at christians rather
worse thing is, they keep saying they have to defend the faith, when being attacked for evangelising and putting down other people faiths
between the Religious Harmony Act and christian need to spread the gospels, i choose the former..
for those who read widely, trying to guess my intentions, this is my intentions, they can find my exact post on religious harmony act within this forum... -
Ya, so hot. Does this occur in the past?Originally posted by ben1xy:it's getting hot in this forum!
lol
come come all ... cool down -
Many times, many places.....Originally posted by jnwk:Ya, so hot. Does this occur in the past? -
i can reassure its just misunderstandings.
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yep laurence .. i see where u r coming from ...Originally posted by laurence82:i have to beg for ur forgiveness, but i cant
someone aim me for attacking christianity, when i am aiming at christians rather
worse thing is, they keep saying they have to defend the faith, when being attacked for evangelising and putting down other people faiths
between the Religious Harmony Act and christian need to spread the gospels, i choose the former..
for those who read widely, trying to guess my intentions, this is my intentions, they can find my exact post on religious harmony act within this forum...
juz to make sure u understand our stance (i am sure u heard it b4.. juz to make sure) ...
we believe in Jesus who came down to die for our sins... and by believing in him we gain salvation (this is the general Christian view pt. - i think lah .. i am a Catholic .. if i stated this wrongly.. pray tell my Christian brethren .. correct me).
so we established the Jesus factor yah? and Jesus told us to spread the gospel. we can't say we believe in him and yet not listen right?
thats y Christians evagelise.
sometimes we go abt it the wrong way... (e.g. saying insensitive and dumb things to put down other religions) and on behalf of them .. i apologise for that..
and of course when somebody steps in and attacks our faith .. we will defend it. like any good Christian should.
so its not like.. Christians think we are high and mighty and stuff... but rather we are juz obeying our Lord -
look benx, i understand the stance u christian takeOriginally posted by ben1xy:yep laurence .. i see where u r coming from ...
juz to make sure u understand our stance (i am sure u heard it b4.. juz to make sure) ...
we believe in Jesus who came down to die for our sins... and by believing in him we gain salvation (this is the general Christian view pt. - i think lah .. i am a Catholic .. if i stated this wrongly.. pray tell my Christian brethren .. correct me).
so we established the Jesus factor yah? and Jesus told us to spread the gospel. we can't say we believe in him and yet not listen right?
thats y Christians evagelise.
sometimes we go abt it the wrong way... (e.g. saying insensitive and dumb things to put down other religions) and on behalf of them .. i apologise for that..
and of course when somebody steps in and attacks our faith .. we will defend it. like any good Christian should.
so its not like.. Christians think we are high and mighty and stuff... but rather we are juz obeying our Lord
in fact, chin eng, sorry to use his name for the nth time, was the first one to recognise i understand the stance fully, especially on the part of faith and belief
in fact, i have been glad many include u understand my point, and that u guys dont come around and accuse me of attacking christianity
what irks me is not just people who sput rubbish as u describe, its what consequences would those 'rubbish' cause..for example, a blight on inter faith harmony
i just added a second group of people to my aimlist, that is, people who dont see what i mean and want to twist words and stuff to suggest i am attacking christianity and so on....
i am sorry to say this, this being a public forum, words are best uttered wisely, i am attacking from this point of view
cheers.. -
as long as you understand the Christian viewpt... its cool. juz making sure
but yes... inter-faith harmony is important... dats wad the Catholic church advocates in its acumenism movements. With Pope John Paul II ... apologising to the jews and visiting a mosque
esp. in this day and time ... i reckon religious harmony is really crucial -
The truth is simple, but people are clouded so as not to see it. Many denominations and evil doings by a big group of people (the Nazis, the Crusaders) doesn't make truth relative.
There r many truth in the world tat is not simple. Your statement of people being clouded already highlight the fact tat truth is not a simple thing to grasp. If truth is simple, then we expect everyone to believe in the same religion. Many denomination and evil doings by a big group of people misled by a few really show tat they do not know wat is the truthLawyers are there to make the judge or jury sees the details and dig out the flaws in their opponent. Let's say Took really killed Huang Na and he wasn't insane at that time (meaning he is culpable for his actions). This is the truth - very simple .. Took murdered someone. And let's say the former air stewardess threw the girl down the block. This is the truth - very simple .. she murdered someone. These truths are what the court sought to establish. Why they take so long to establish you can imagine .. prosecution and defence summoning their own witnesses, attempts to discredit your opponent by digging into events few months back, etc.
If truth is so simple, then we wouldn't see Took able to escape police attention even after 2 interviews. If truth is simple there wouldn't even be a debate on whether is Took insane or not. If truth is simple, then we don't need lawyers nor jury since everything can be decided easily. U say tat court sought to establish the truth. Isn't tat already a sign tat the truth is hidden, obscure and hard to establish and requires the work of a team of people using a lot of time to only come out with a version of wat they preceive as the truth. The real truth may be something else and tat is why there r cases of people wrongly jailed of hanged. Shouldn't we also employ the same method of assessing truth by rigorously thinking and studying and after the studies, be ready to accept the viewpoints from the other side of the fence since all men err. -
You forget laurence that all of us Christians were once not? We counter everything or discuss everything from a Christian perspective because we believe in it very strongly.. (at least I do) and for me it is not a religion, like some of us here have stated, it is a personal relationship with GOD. I speak from a Christian stand point because it defines who I am in Christ and it is very much a part of me... you can say that it has become part of my life, I talk to God everyday and meditate on the bible everyday too... not to sound holy and preachy... but it means that much to me. I have lived the non-christian life for half my life and it never got me anywhere or gave me much contentment or fulfilment, that is why I don't ever want to go back to where I came from... my parents were buddhists and then became taoists... and I was made to go to temple with them all the time... now they are free thinkers and when you look at them, they have no peace... but I get to wake up every morning with this peace that I cannot describe. You want me to give up that kind of assurance and peace for something temporal? Being a christian is not all about theology... its bigger than that!Originally posted by laurence82:Not really. Unless you are an oldbie like sillyme or dennis, aka s|nned who is the mod here and my fren, in fact same school mate, who knew what is going on and the reason for me coming in here, pls dont second guess my intention or suggest anything.
I counter every view? If you observe hard enuff, there are specific topics i dont touch at all.
I for one believe in being a devil's advocate. Altho i come in with another intention, now that u mention it, for me, its really good to counter every christian view from a non christian perspective.
Why remain stagnant and in denial by just wanting to discuss things from a christian perspective, and label any non christian view that do counter your own view as negative or to be ignored?
Its like adding spices to the everyday fare. Thats what good argument and debates should be all abt.
What you are adding is not spice to everyday fare, but putting down another persons belief system... what we say here in EH stays here in EH...
You take out your "hurts" on the new christians here because of what others in the past have done... I think it is time to let it go. We newbies here do not go to other forums to preach and cause trouble... at least from what I can see.. so just back off on that point. Like I said before, if you want to have a civilised discussion, we can... but no more name calling either... you jump up and down when SIS gets called SISsy... and you call me a what?
You want to give a non-christian view point, you are welcome to... it is after all a public forum, but remember, there is a tone to this forum.. a DECIDEDLY CHRISTIAN ONE... live with it and move on... we believe strongly in what we believe in, and if people ask the question... don't ask us to sugar coat it. We are all adults.. if you don't like what we say, you are welcome to ignore it. You have a mind, you decide what you want to believe in or not. All of us have free will, we all choose to believe what we believe... in the same way you think that us Christians are pushing people to become Christians... some Christians here might think that you non-believers are trying to push your view points on us... keep a discussion to a discussion.. all of us have viewpoints so take your own advice and be more open minded... ok?
Also if your friend is a mod, then where is he? Have not seen him here at all... -
Why remain stagnant and in denial by just wanting to discuss things from a christian perspective, and label any non christian view that do counter your own view as negative or to be ignored?
You forget laurence that all of us Christians were once not? We counter everything or discuss everything from a Christian perspective because we believe in it very strongly.. (at least I do) and for me it is not a religion, like some of us here have stated, it is a personal relationship with GOD. I speak from a Christian stand point because it defines who I am in Christ and it is very much a part of me... you can say that it has become part of my life, I talk to God everyday and meditate on the bible everyday too... not to sound holy and preachy... but it means that much to me. I have lived the non-christian life for half my life and it never got me anywhere or gave me much contentment or fulfilment, that is why I don't ever want to go back to where I came from... my parents were buddhists and then became taoists... and I was made to go to temple with them all the time... now they are free thinkers and when you look at them, they have no peace... but I get to wake up every morning with this peace that I cannot describe. You want me to give up that kind of assurance and peace for something temporal? Being a christian is not all about theology... its bigger than that!
I think some of the problems of some christians is tat they view the bible and christians as the only reliable source of information and totally disregard wat the other part of the world is thinking or any new information found. And worse still tis form of cencorship is encouraged, and the knowledge and perceptions of millions is controlled by very few individuals. Tis is an unhealthy phenomenon as history from time to time shows tat it leads to fanatism and eventually leads to disaster. From the reply of laurence I do not find any fault when he asked why does they only see things from the christian viewpoint while ignoring the non-christian views. The answer to it is a bit surprising as to me, it sounds like laurence is right when he made these remarks and it is something to be proud of. Is it a proud and good thing to say tat because u r a christian, u r entitled and encouraged to ignore the viewpoints from people of other belief ? Is it healthy to think tat one is always right and other criticisms can be dismissed without second thoughts ? Tis really is disturbing and the manner which some christian believe in christainity is apalling... -
SIS, please read my post carefully, we are all humans, we have a mind... we are free to regard or disregard as we see fit for each of our lives. There is no encouragement to ignore the viewpoint of another belief, but YES I AM ENTITLED TO DISREGARD THE VIEWPOINT OF ANOTHER BELIEF should I find that it does not sit well with me. We all have the freedom to choose. Similarly, you are also entitled to disregard my viewpoint should it not sit well with you.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why remain stagnant and in denial by just wanting to discuss things from a christian perspective, and label any non christian view that do counter your own view as negative or to be ignored?
I think some of the problems of some christians is tat they view the bible and christians as the only reliable source of information and totally disregard wat the other part of the world is thinking or any new information found. And worse still tis form of cencorship is encouraged, and the knowledge and perceptions of millions is controlled by very few individuals. Tis is an unhealthy phenomenon as history from time to time shows tat it leads to fanatism and eventually leads to disaster. From the reply of laurence I do not find any fault when he asked why does they only see things from the christian viewpoint while ignoring the non-christian views. The answer to it is a bit surprising as to me, it sounds like laurence is right when he made these remarks and it is something to be proud of. Is it a proud and good thing to say tat because u r a christian, u r entitled and encouraged to ignore the viewpoints from people of other belief ? Is it healthy to think tat one is always right and other criticisms can be dismissed without second thoughts ? Tis really is disturbing and the manner which some christian believe in christainity is apalling...
If I as a christian or other christians choose to disregard the viewpoint of another person or belief, how is that being proud? How do you know that we have not evaluated the other belief system and have decided that it does not sit well with us.
All of us believe in something or nothing. To accuse a person of being proud just because they don't accept your viewpoint is also pride. If a person thinks that a certain belief system is right for him and chooses to follow it, I do not think that there is anything wrong with that. You have your viewpoint and you make it known here in a Christian forum, we have read it, but we are under no obligation to accept it. The reverse is true as well, you listen to our view point, but you do not have to follow it.
SIS It is a free world, you choose what you want to believe in, but don't expect others to believe that you have the right viewpoint as well. Like I said, it is a viewpoint, how or which view point you choose is up to you again. I have given examples of my own life.. I have been to the buddhist ceremonies and the taoist temples... and they do not sit well with me, so I chose a different path, one that I believe in (and know that is the right one)... not that I am saying that buddhism etc is wrong, but it is not for me and the other Christians here as well otherwise we would not believe in Jesus and God would we?
To Christians, the BIBLE is the living WORD of GOD. It is right and true and it is the very basis of our faith, if we did not believe in it fully, then why become a Christian? Similarly, if muslims or buddhists did not believe fully in what they did, then why become muslim or buddhist or any other religion for that matter... As Christians we are called to be hot for God all the time, we cannot and will not fence sit. We believe in what we believe, you can choose your own path, we don't condemn you for it. Your choice. -
Originally posted by Townlink 268:
If it is a supposed family day and your parents choose to go to Chruch to listen to the preaching... then I think that they have certainly have the right to do as the please with their life, don't forget, it is still their house and you live there by their grace. They brought you up and you should at least show them some respect.
now the last thing i want over the next few months is my parents "convert", due to super heavy influence by the church, its activity, and the guy who lured them there.. heard this influential guy (working for my dad now) is super anti-buddhist (will get angry when he see ppl burning joss-sticks)and i can sense his "intentions".
the weekly visits are making me very very upset. like my family splitting up.. some more its EVERY sunday.. family day le!!
[b]!!!!!HELP!!!!![/b]
Perhaps, if the family is so important to you.. go with them and have a listen yourself. Then if what they are saying is wrong, then you can have an informed discussion with them about it.
I do not think that it is very respectful for you to throw away their things as well. You certainly would not want them to do that to you right? -
I think maybe I go recce the place. See issit the normal kind of preaching.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Perhaps, if the family is so important to you.. go with them and have a listen yourself. Then if what they are saying is wrong, then you can have an informed discussion with them about it. -
Presbytarian chruch should be pretty normal...Originally posted by Icemoon:I think maybe I go recce the place. See issit the normal kind of preaching. -
that's what I think also. Actually I'm glad it is Presbytarian and not some mega church.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Presbytarian chruch should be pretty normal... -
u were the first one to laff at him rem? i was pointing out this in a thread, while mcsquare were pointing out what he doesnt like to see in ur points at another thread, it was on what books christians read...Originally posted by breytonhartge:You forget laurence that all of us Christians were once not? We counter everything or discuss everything from a Christian perspective because we believe in it very strongly.. (at least I do) and for me it is not a religion, like some of us here have stated, it is a personal relationship with GOD. I speak from a Christian stand point because it defines who I am in Christ and it is very much a part of me... you can say that it has become part of my life, I talk to God everyday and meditate on the bible everyday too... not to sound holy and preachy... but it means that much to me. I have lived the non-christian life for half my life and it never got me anywhere or gave me much contentment or fulfilment, that is why I don't ever want to go back to where I came from... my parents were buddhists and then became taoists... and I was made to go to temple with them all the time... now they are free thinkers and when you look at them, they have no peace... but I get to wake up every morning with this peace that I cannot describe. You want me to give up that kind of assurance and peace for something temporal? Being a christian is not all about theology... its bigger than that!
What you are adding is not spice to everyday fare, but putting down another persons belief system... what we say here in EH stays here in EH...
You take out your "hurts" on the new christians here because of what others in the past have done... I think it is time to let it go. We newbies here do not go to other forums to preach and cause trouble... at least from what I can see.. so just back off on that point. Like I said before, if you want to have a civilised discussion, we can... but no more name calling either... you jump up and down when SIS gets called SISsy... and you call me a what?
You want to give a non-christian view point, you are welcome to... it is after all a public forum, but remember, there is a tone to this forum.. a DECIDEDLY CHRISTIAN ONE... live with it and move on... we believe strongly in what we believe in, and if people ask the question... don't ask us to sugar coat it. We are all adults.. if you don't like what we say, you are welcome to ignore it. You have a mind, you decide what you want to believe in or not. All of us have free will, we all choose to believe what we believe... in the same way you think that us Christians are pushing people to become Christians... some Christians here might think that you non-believers are trying to push your view points on us... keep a discussion to a discussion.. all of us have viewpoints so take your own advice and be more open minded... ok?
Also if your friend is a mod, then where is he? Have not seen him here at all...
sheesh, i rem pointing out this to u, but u choose to ignore, then u come ard and pretend not to know..sheesh
breying donkey stays
and no, too bad, contrary to what u want me to do, i cant accept that, having christians views doesnt give u space and authority to do what u want as u like, again, i will as a non believer push my views, not on everything u want to practise, but what i can see as having consequential effect, and really when it come to this, i dont budge...
i wish there will reach a time christians like u watch the stuff that come out from ur mouth, rather than showing people how bright u are before u open ur mouth...
this post of urs confirm my fear what kind of modding will take place in this forum, and i believe my misgivings are true... -
not forgetting the part u condemn people to hell and damnation, elevate urself a a good candidate for heaven, then deny, then ignore the facts, then justify it...
i had hard time finding a pail large enuff to barf in.... -
like telling a Vegetarian meat is good, telling Muslims Pork gives you invincuble power..Originally posted by laurence82:for me, i am not irritated if a christian share the gospels
guess again what really irritates non believers...
still, if christians are telling me something bout christians as a general topic, without the "bugging and pestering" attitude, and if the person saying them to me is a friend, i can accept it.. -
mega church.. would u believe it.. my fren went to City Harvest once, and describe the scene as "disco-themed".Originally posted by Icemoon:that's what I think also. Actually I'm glad it is Presbytarian and not some mega church.
and yeah.. the church i mentioned is a small one, not those high0tech big n mega ones.. tho small ones tend to be more focused? -
hope this isnt a bias view.. still, this may be a sensitive issue.. guess just leave things as they are for now..Originally posted by breytonhartge:If it is a supposed family day and your parents choose to go to Chruch to listen to the preaching... then I think that they have certainly have the right to do as the please with their life, don't forget, it is still their house and you live there by their grace. They brought you up and you should at least show them some respect.
Perhaps, if the family is so important to you.. go with them and have a listen yourself. Then if what they are saying is wrong, then you can have an informed discussion with them about it.
I do not think that it is very respectful for you to throw away their things as well. You certainly would not want them to do that to you right? -
the building size doesnt matter, its what is inside that matterOriginally posted by Townlink 268:mega church.. would u believe it.. my fren went to City Harvest once, and describe the scene as "disco-themed".
and yeah.. the church i mentioned is a small one, not those high0tech big n mega ones.. tho small ones tend to be more focused?
once my Lit teacher, a Christian, went inside a service that resembles an assembly of the Shakers, freaked out and leave immediately..