Interesting talk btw Athiest Prof & Christian Student
-
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.
He asks one of his new students to stand and..
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student: Absolutely, sir!
Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student: Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
Student: (Student is silent.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student: Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student: No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student: From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student: Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student: Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
Student: (Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
Student: (Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
To be continued....... -
oh i've heard this one from one of my philosophy lectures last year...the student questions the prof abt heat and light i think...and goes on to say smth abt how it can't be proven that the prof has a brain...can't really remember the whole thing though
-
Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student: And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student: No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold.
We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat.
We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. �(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) �
Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?
In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor.
Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
Prof: (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)
Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir?
Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
Prof: (The class is in uproar.)
Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
Prof: (The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
Prof: (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. �
Student: That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive. � �
NB: I believe you have enjoyed the conversation...and if so...you'll �probably want your friends/colleagues to enjoy the same...won't �you?...forward them to increase their knowledge... �� -
double
-
post leh post lehOriginally posted by F Bunta:I can post the professor's retort to the student's amateurish attempt to prove god's existence.
-
is this true or somebody just cook it up?
-
Read this b4, just a clever way to swamp atheists
Wait for SIS reply...
-
nay .. i've kept him busy in another topic ..Originally posted by laurence82:Wait for SIS reply... -
my problem is not that i don't believe that god exists, but that whether christianity's beliefs about what they think god thinks are 100% accurate
-
Agnostic?
-
Originally posted by HENG@:my problem is not that i don't believe that god exists, but that whether christianity's beliefs about what they think god thinks are 100% accurate this is good, at least it is better than people who keep insisting that there is no god. Point is, every single religion will claim that their god is the true god, otherwise why would there be followers? On the same note, no religion can prove without a shadow of a doubt that such claims can be proven - hence the existence of faith. at the end of the day, there is really no point in arguing on whether one religion's doctrinal claims are accurate, true or otherwise. If one believes, one believes. If one don't, no need to turn hostile. On the same note, Christians should not be insistent on such claims.
1 Peter's 3:15 tells us to "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.", it is not a blank cheque for us to enter into an argument when the discussion turns ugly. Hopefully non-Christians can understand that once such answers are given, even if you do not agree with it, no need to fight over it. -
i am waiting for the last part of the talk.
-
I thought I have actually answer tis before ?
On heat and cold, it is true tat cold is an absense of heat. But there r other quantities tat has 2 sides, such as negatively charged or positively charged. An absence of both means neutrality. An object with more positively charge ions than negative one have an overall positive charge and vice versa. The same thign can be said to magnetic forces as well. So question is, is evil and good the same as heat or same as charge ? Obviously he made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If it is just an absence of goodness, then just call it the tree of the knowledge of good is sufficient. In Genesis 8:21, bible mention
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
Deuteronomy 13:5
That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
If u search the bible, u will find tat throughout it mention evil as a quantity of its own, not because of the absence of good. So the analogy of evil being created by god is true.Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
There r strong evidence tat states tat evolution exists. On the other hand there r really weak evidence tat states your religion is true. There is a difference between believing in something tat there is actually no reason to believe in and believing in something where the evidence is strong. U never see your brain, tat is true, but surely after cutting up a few hundred people head, u can see they all have brain. If u r not convinced u can go for an ultrasound or magnetic resonance to prove your brain exist. For religion, there is nothing for u to fall back. People believe because they believe, and they can't come out with other answer other than tis.
The argument is really based on evidence versus no evidence -
The argument is really based on what is being defined as admissible evidence, not whether there is or is no evidence.
The argument is really based on evidence versus no evidence -
Cannot lah .. liddat we only have negative charges when we study static electricity and magnetism.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Obviously he made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If it is just an absence of goodness, then just call it the tree of the knowledge of good is sufficient.
If u search the bible, u will find tat throughout it mention evil as a quantity of its own, not because of the absence of good. So the analogy of evil being created by god is true.
Even postive charge is mentioned as a quantity of its own. Like you can use induction to separate the charges on two insulated metal spheres. Then one sphere will always have positive charges and the other one negative. In your discussion, you always refer to one as the positive charged metal sphere.
U never see your brain, tat is true, but surely after cutting up a few hundred people head, u can see they all have brain.
Hmm .. is the story about the professor having grey matter or whether the prof can think? -
Originally posted by Honeybunz:
Suddenly a lamp dropped on the Student's head...
[b]An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.
He asks one of his new students to stand and..
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student: Absolutely, sir!
Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student: Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
Student: (Student is silent.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student: Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student: No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student: From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student: Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student: Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
Student: (Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
Student: (Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
To be continued.......[/b]
The student was bleeding badly...
As fellow students trying to help him, the Prof stops them.
Prof: GOD will help him, we don't need to help him.
After a few minutes the student collapse and stopped breathing... -
Originally posted by maggot:Suddenly a lamp dropped on the Student's head...
The student was bleeding badly...
As fellow students trying to help him, the Prof stops them.
Prof: GOD will help him, we don't need to help him.
After a few minutes the student collapse and stopped breathing...
good riddance to bad rubbish! -
Jesus was executed on the cross by the Romans...killed by spear stabbing
How can some people change the fact and say he died for our sins, he died for us???
Maybe if he tell me Jesus changes himself into a fireball and flew up and explodes himself together with the comet coming to crash against earth...like that maybe got people believe that he died for us...
So he died on the cross say died on the cross...please don't add extra things...
Note: Maybe some of you come preaching to me may have heard this before -
Originally posted by F Bunta:There are many agnostics out there, me inclusive. It's just that we are unable to accept the claim that the mighty god would send a mortal to save the world. In my opinion, Jesus is but a charlatan. Hope you're not offended. not at all. I have always maintained that everyone is entitled to their opinions. My two best friends at work is a Hindu and a Muslim.... As long as one does not launch a rude tirade over something that can be potentially emotive and controversial, it is fine.
One observation about your comments. To acknowledge that Jesus is a charlatan is better than not believing in his existence.....
It is one thing to state that a Jesus existed in history but was either a charlatan or made into a charlatan by his overzealous followers or people in conspiracy.
It is another to totally disbelieve the Christian heritage in terms of it's history through Judaism.
At the end of the day, we are either a bunch of misguided folks believing an in age-old lie, or maybe a twisted truth, or even possibly the gospel truth.
Everything that matters at a later point for us, as individuals, remain a personal experience. If we die, do we meet God? do we meet another God? or maybe there is nothing but a big oblivion? At that moment, all these debate in EH as well as other religious debates, do not matter at all.
The thing that is important NOW, religion is a force or a philosophy that galvanise and help focus our inner self. It should help us be a better person to our fellow men.
Of course the negative side exist too....
I cannot stand Christians who shoves the gospel down peoples throat,
I cannot understand why a peaceful message of Mohammed becomes a life-destroying force,
I cannot comprehend why there are so many fake monks who beg?
I also don't know why people spend their time to come into EH to whack us? One common reason given is that Christians do that all the time, going into other forums and preach..... ok, so two wrongs make a right?
Somebody here once said: it is a mean person that criticises another religion.
But, hey, thanks for your comments, Bunta.... again, no issue with me... -
Cannot lah .. liddat we only have negative charges when we study static electricity and magnetism.
Wat is the charge of a proton ? Don't tell me u r stuck before going to the atomic structure of an atomEven postive charge is mentioned as a quantity of its own. Like you can use induction to separate the charges on two insulated metal spheres. Then one sphere will always have positive charges and the other one negative. In your discussion, you always refer to one as the positive charged metal sphere.
And so ? there r duality isn't it ?Hmm .. is the story about the professor having grey matter or whether the prof can think?
The story tells people why do they believe the prof had a brain when they never see it. It is really about the prof having grey matter, and simultaneously criticise the ability of the prof to think. -
Positive bah.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Wat is the charge of a proton ? Don't tell me u r stuck before going to the atomic structure of an atom
And so ? there r duality isn't it ?
duality? you mean like wave-particle duality?
The story tells people why do they believe the prof had a brain when they never see it. It is really about the prof having grey matter, and simultaneously criticise the ability of the prof to think.
Come to think of it .. even I agree that the student is quite dumb to use such an example .. haha -
[quote]Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Of course the negative side exist too....
I cannot stand Christians who shoves the gospel down peoples throat,
I cannot understand why a peaceful message of Mohammed becomes a life-destroying force,
I cannot comprehend why there are so many fake monks who beg?
I also don't know why people spend their time to come into EH to whack us? One common reason given is that Christians do that all the time, going into other forums and preach..... ok, so two wrongs make a right?
Somebody here once said: it is a mean person that criticises another religion.
[b]I agree with what you're trying to say Chin Eng.
So I do believe in Jesus's existence and He being our lord and savior. And if somewhat doesn't believe? Be in peace. No point forcing the gospel into someone's mind. Likewise, for the people who doesn't share my belief, be in peace, too. If we argue with each other, it'll be like ... mei2 wan2 mei2 liao3 ..
So, just respect what others believe in, so long as it is not a bad thing. Even if you don't like it deep down in your heart, don't try to offend others. Seeking answers are most welcomed, but there's always a difference between "seeking answers" and "criticizing".
Just my two cents worth
-
It would help if Christians do not use Eternal Hope to thrash others I guess. If you look ard, there are many many threads which questioned atheism, buddhists, gays, etc etc..Originally posted by Chin Eng:I also don't know why people spend their time to come into EH to whack us? One common reason given is that Christians do that all the time, going into other forums and preach..... ok, so two wrongs make a right?
Somebody here once said: it is a mean person that criticises another religion.
If Eternal Hope is used to help Christians to understand the bible to perform good, most people will not come to disturb this forum lor . -
but then the bible does make a stand in issues like homosexuals and atheism. if it is like what SIS proclaims - the bible is wrong - then it follows that their correct interpretation will be wrong too.Originally posted by earthlings73:If you look ard, there are many many threads which questioned atheism, buddhists, gays, etc etc.. -
You are quite right here..... however, we need to define what bashing means.Originally posted by earthlings73:It would help if Christians do not use Eternal Hope to thrash others I guess. If you look ard, there are many many threads which questioned atheism, buddhists, gays, etc etc..
If Eternal Hope is used to help Christians to understand the bible to perform good, most people will not come to disturb this forum lor . Obviously, any religion and organisations will have agendas and stands contrary to other popular beliefs. It is quite natural for a proponent of such stands to voice their concerns, and if it is done within the confines of a predetermined parameter, ie one within a forum created for these proponents, then I suppose it should be tolerated. The folks at the other religious and philosophical forums within SGforums, too have their slant over what they'd considered as their stands. It would be extremely rude and also wrong for Christians to go into these forums and bash their philosophies. It should be understood that EH remains predominantly a Christian forum and would be natural to assume that topics posted will be in accordance with the general Christian doctrine, which may include speaking out, for example, against homosexuals. Then there are some of us who are young in the faith and are still extreme zealous to declare what we believe in - these, I sometimes address at a personal level, encouraging them to moderate a little. What should not be done is for any thread to evolve to a flame war. Both Christians and non-Christians are responsible in preventing this from happening. For example, as what you'd stated, EH is actually being used, sometimes, "to help Christians to understand the Bible to perform good". But for some unknown reason, it will eventually evolved into: "the Bible is a lie, Jesus did not die for your sins, blah blah blah" When that happens, can we expect less from an adverse reaction from some of us who are a little more zealous in defending what we believe in. Note that I am not giving such Christians with such reactions an excuse in any way.... .... which leads me to state that I have tried very hard to avoid confrontation because it is pointless. I'd used EH to answer any queries I possibly can, sometimes using PMs. I'd still see myself being able to defend the faith in a less confrontational stance to people who are willing to have an open mind. Anyone else who has already formed an opinion of Christian - these I'd just stay on the level of casual communication.