Continue from Speaker's Corner
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I don't know why am I still talking about such a stupid topic
Can't you see it? If mankind is created in the image of God, then the holy breath part is not essential liao (but still important). This is supporting evidence to show why man behaves differently from animals. So what if mankind is just moulded from clay and so are animals? We don't care about physicial differences.
And the point tat animals remains the state they r created remains the same. God make animals gay. Whether is it different or same the fact still remain tat god made animals gay.Prove to me god made these animals gay?
God created animals. If he doesn't make them gay, who did ? Tis is especially true since god is suppose to hate homosexual acts, christian believe everything has a cause, animals remains the state they r in from the moment they r created.
If you see a child with Down's Syndrome, does it mean the symptom existed in Adam or Eve?
A child with down's syndrome may means tat god created some bacteria tat can onyl live by attacking the nerve of men.They made the wrong statement cos they werent supposed to make those statements. If SIS made a wrong statement in science, ok let's say he keep on making wrong statements in science, do we automatically dismiss his views on religion? ah ha ..
They made those statement and frankly most of them r popes or bishop etc. They fact remains tat they made many wrong statements before, officially broadcast it and worse still they r not wrong from their interpretation from the bible. The problem lies with the bible. Is tat wat u wanna conclude ?Where is the bible wrong with regards to those issues?
If u think it is right, then u should start slavery system again and prosecute left handers now
Slavery and prosecuting lefthanders .. what's wrong with them?I repeat the bible is still primarily a literature and not presented as a rigorous proof manuscript. As such, the way they present the information should be subjected to literature analysis rather than [strict] logicial analysis. I maintain the holy breath verse is there cos it is to tell us there is a spiritual creation in us as well, compared to the "created from dust" - a physical creation.
The bible itself try to play the role of a science textbook by explaining how certain phenomenons come about. But nevertheless, if u wanna compare by "literature", then in it there never states anything about the breath being important. They just casually mention it briefly. U r putting words into tat statement by saying it is very important and tat animals don't have itJesus is often compared with Adam. I'm sure you know this is Christian theology. The temptation of Jesus is to show the triumph over the devil, which Adam had failed.
Trivial point. This does not means the snake is satanGod never promised you fairness. This is a misconception. If God is considered as "fair", then beautitudes lines like "blessed are the poor .." would not exist
Good. tell tat to people who claim he is a just god. -
cos you are stupid, that's why.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don't know why am I still talking about such a stupid topic
you shouldn't have argued in the first place. why don't you accept mankind has a spiritual creation while animals don't? -
Animals don't remain .. they can evolve .. use your brain dudeOriginally posted by stupidissmart:And the point tat animals remains the state they r created remains the same. God make animals gay. Whether is it different or same the fact still remain tat god made animals gay.
Prove to me from scripture God made them gay? Ok, try to prove to me from science also.
God created animals. If he doesn't make them gay, who did ? Tis is especially true since god is suppose to hate homosexual acts, christian believe everything has a cause, animals remains the state they r in from the moment they r created.
You are self contradicting. If God hates homosexual acts, why did He made animals gay?
A child with down's syndrome may means tat god created some bacteria tat can onyl live by attacking the nerve of men.
what is down's syndrome caused by?
Are you going to tell us God created radiation to cause mutation sickness in mankind?
They made those statement and frankly most of them r popes or bishop etc.
Yah .. they are not darwins or newtons, just popes and bishops.
They fact remains tat they made many wrong statements before, officially broadcast it and worse still they r not wrong from their interpretation from the bible. The problem lies with the bible.
Huh .. are you saying WE are all wrong with our interpretation of Scripture now? Since virtually everyone believe in heliocentricity now.
The bible itself try to play the role of a science textbook by explaining how certain phenomenons come about.
You are mistaken. Did God say how He created animals? You maintained there is no description on the process right?
Similarly if God created Adam from dust, doesn't mean He did that after a pottery lesson. Bible is literature. Created from dust can mean created from elements in nature, from organic elements etc. the point is to show mankind has a physical creation. But the holy breath obviously doesnt come from nature - it came from God. God brought something out of nothing, so to speak, only in the beginning. This agrees with the big bang theory. After that everything is formed from the initial elements (hydrogen?) present.
But nevertheless, if u wanna compare by "literature", then in it there never states anything about the breath being important. They just casually mention it briefly. U r putting words into tat statement by saying it is very important and tat animals don't have it
Mankind is special. The author told us we are so 'cos we had the holy breath in us. You have to read it from the author/bible's perspective, and not your own theory. The point is we had a spiritual creation (we had something personal from God, so to speak) while animals don't.
Trivial point. This does not means the snake is satan
Jesus is often labelled as the second Adam, correct me if i'm wrong? The NT likes to parallel events in the OT, to boost their claim that Jesus is the Messiah.
I suppose most Christians agree that the snake is Satan.
Good. tell tat to people who claim he is a just god.
Bingo .. I was driving at that precisely! Christians always say God is just .. when do you hear them say God is fair?
There is a difference. In chinese, "just" is gong1 yi4, whereas "fair" is gong1 ping2. We always say God is a "gong1 yi4 de shen2". -
Animals don't remain .. they can evolve .. use your brain dude
Com'on man ! If u believe in evolution u wouldn't believe adam is created from dust
Prove to me from scripture God made them gay? Ok, try to prove to me from science also.
I say the bible neevr states any changes with animals. They never rebel them they never really change according to wat bible states. So they r really in the original form tat god intended them to beYou are self contradicting. If God hates homosexual acts, why did He made animals gay?
U can come out with 2 conclusion. The bible is wrong or god doesn't really hate homosexual act as u thinkwhat is down's syndrome caused by?
Com'on, u know the bulk of sickness is created by bacteria and viruses
Are you going to tell us God created radiation to cause mutation sickness in mankind If u believe god created all life than he also created these bacteria and started sicknessYah .. they are not darwins or newtons, just popes and bishops.
Yup, they r all just human and they can err, smoke and guess.Huh .. are you saying WE are all wrong with our interpretation of Scripture now? Since virtually everyone believe in heliocentricity now
I am saying they r all guessing and so just take their words like a pinch of salt. U don't need to cap it u know. THEY R ALL WRONG when they say earth is flat. THEY R ALL WRONG when they say sun revolves aroudn earthSimilarly if God created Adam from dust, doesn't mean He did that after a pottery lesson. Bible is literature. Created from dust can mean created from elements in nature, from organic elements etc. the point is to show mankind has a physical creation. But the holy breath obviously doesnt come from nature - it came from God. God brought something out of nothing, so to speak, only in the beginning. This agrees with the big bang theory. After that everything is formed from the initial elements (hydrogen?) present.
I think u r getting a bit off point. U still can't say tat the breath does not coem to animals and tat the breath is so important. Whether got big bang or no big bang, it seems off point and obviously I don't see any link between big bang and hydrogen with godMankind is special. The author told us we are so 'cos we had the holy breath in us. You have to read it from the author/bible's perspective, and not your own theory. The point is we had a spiritual creation (we had something personal from God, so to speak) while animals don't.
The point is, as said many times before, u can't say the breath is unique to men only. The bible itself never say it is unique as well. The only conclusion is no conclusion. Reading it from the author perspective I can only see it is mention so breifly it doesn't seems to be important.Jesus is often labelled as the second Adam, correct me if i'm wrong? The NT likes to parallel events in the OT, to boost their claim that Jesus is the Messiah.
So in the end u still can't prove satan is the snake, much like adam isn't jesus. If u say satan is snake then I can use the same reasoning to say adam is jesus.
I suppose most Christians agree that the snake is Satan.Bingo .. I was driving at that precisely! Christians always say God is just .. when do you hear them say God is fair?
Lets put it tis way. How can an unfair god be just ? If someone is not fair, tat is he side with his friends and family, how can he be just ?
from oxford dictionary: morally right and fair
dictionary .com: Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions -
well if i remember correctly, the specific quote in the bible would be "man should not lay with man as he does with woman" or something like that.
Apparently exclusive homosexuals dont lay with women at all, so i guess that point is moot. -
I believe god made everything. Its stated in the bible.
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before SIS tries to attack you .. let me remind him that you are only stating your belief, you aren't trying to convince anyone here.Originally posted by ahpeh:I believe god made everything. Its stated in the bible.
Must pre-empt his strike. So if he goes into a long tirade again, we know who is the xiao3 ren2. Heh. -
icemoon, lets say i just take ur statement alone, so if i were to argue on the theology and doctrines of the faith, i must at least have the faith first? or that i must do so on the ground of belief?
u are a rational person urself, u noe many times, but not all the times, belief can be blind faith or even defy logic... -
huh?Originally posted by laurence82:icemoon, lets say i just take ur statement alone, so if i were to argue on the theology and doctrines of the faith, i must at least have the faith first? or that i must do so on the ground of belief? -
I'm wondering if logic can explain everything. If not, how they gonna explain those unexplainable. Would be enlighted if good answers are posted.
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but if u explain unexplainables, u must use logic wad...
i rather term these as 'hidden truth and logic'
it take men centuries to discover things ard him, and even now we are learning
its never too old to learn.. -
nvm that post, i think i got my ans somewhere...Originally posted by Icemoon:huh? -
How do you use logic to explain the existence of man, earth, universe and most importantly ELEMENTS?Originally posted by laurence82:but if u explain unexplainables, u must use logic wad...
i rather term these as 'hidden truth and logic'
it take men centuries to discover things ard him, and even now we are learning
its never too old to learn..
Anticipating a good answer from your worldview.
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Originally posted by jnwk:
The answers already lies in the post u quoted
How do you use logic to explain the existence of man, earth, universe and most importantly [b]ELEMENTS?
Anticipating a good answer from your worldview.[/b]
Over the past centuries, man has come up with new theories and debunk the old ones, just like what happened to Vatican's view the earth is the centre of the universe ..sad for the victims of the Inquisition
Thats why i use the term hidden truth and logic. I dont think man will ever absorb all the knowledge in this world and the universe
Which lead me to one topic in the Shredded Brain forum
its abt people using one aspect of psychology to explain for the existence of god or to support the doctrines of their religion
by the way, from what i know, its illegal in Australia and possibly other places where psychological research is well developed
it says that if you cant explain for the existence or cause of sumething, doesnt mean it isnt there..similarly, if i cant explain it, doesnt mean conclusively there is god who is behind those things
there is a reason why most of the christians in this forum argue on basis on faith, not logic
i hope this answer ur question -
You answers shows that you are inclined towards Gnostic belief. Oh dear.....Originally posted by laurence82:The answers already lies in the post u quoted
Over the past centuries, man has come up with new theories and debunk the old ones, just like what happened to Vatican's view the earth is the centre of the universe ..sad for the victims of the Inquisition
Thats why i use the term hidden truth and logic. I dont think man will ever absorb all the knowledge in this world and the universe
Which lead me to one topic in the Shredded Brain forum
its abt people using one aspect of psychology to explain for the existence of god or to support the doctrines of their religion
by the way, from what i know, its illegal in Australia and possibly other places where psychological research is well developed
it says that if you cant explain for the existence or cause of sumething, doesnt mean it isnt there..similarly, if i cant explain it, doesnt mean conclusively there is god who is behind those things
there is a reason why most of the christians in this forum argue on basis on faith, not logic
i hope this answer ur question
Just to confirm...... So you think all the elements exist by itself in the beginning? Or just because you dunno the answers, you think there are something hidden from you as you did not exist long long in the past?
Pls do not be offended. I think you provide answers which are illogical unacceptable because you seem to be going round the questions and avoiding a stand and you defend it by jumping to a conclusion that any answers are possible. Tell me your stand: Have you concluded if there is/are God/gods?
I leave it to the rest of the forumers to comment le.
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actually i already said it long time ago
i dont believe the bibles thats all
besides, my post isnt jumping around the point
many christians prey on non believers, most who arent learned or read enuff to provide their own conclusions, to convert them into chirstians, thats why i state such uses in pyschology is banned
by the way, my stance are taken from arguments or from discussion of those how dwell on it, if u are too shallow to comprehend, i dont mind..
i can see it from the the moment u dont seems to understand perspectives, truth and the everchanging world... -
gnostic? knowledge?
thats what i believe in, knowledge -
No, I say your answers to my questions. Not your posts................Originally posted by laurence82:actually i already said it long time ago
i dont believe the bibles thats all
besides, my post isnt jumping around the point
many christians prey on non believers, most who arent learned or read enuff to provide their own conclusions, to convert them into chirstians, thats why i state such uses in pyschology is banned
by the way, my stance are taken from arguments or from discussion of those how dwell on it, if u are too shallow to comprehend, i dont mind..
i can see it from the the moment u dont seems to understand perspectives, truth and the everchanging world...
And the arguement and discussion are taken from?
Ya, ya, you are really a wonderful knowledgeable laurence82. Me you yan bu jian tian shan lar.... Forumers will comment on it.
Fullstop. -
I tot i say The Shredded Brain forum, or shall i highlight in red?
I dont many people hanging ard to comment anyway...
mods busy, people who should be mod also busy, people who stray in from time to time... -
That is both a steryotype(can't spell) and true.Originally posted by laurence82:there is a reason why most of the christians in this forum argue on basis on faith, not logic
i hope this answer ur question
Lets suppose for a moment that faith works on a higher level of logic. Now as I've mentioned earlier somewhere, man does not posses the adequate tools(or doesn't even know the type of tools he needs) or skills to study this higher level of logic.
So what are we left with; even if the faithful would debate using secular reasoning it simply is not possible.Why?
Secular reasoning does not have the adequate tools(or doesn't even have the type of tools needed) or skills to study this higher level of logic. Nor does it intend to have.Simply because some aspects of religion goes against concepts fixed in stone.
Finally the methods of secular reasoning is meant eventually to abolish religion, so if by the defintion of logic (secular reasoning) stated in this case would make it very difficult. -
If assuming people agree this logic you state is beyond secular reasoning, or far superior...
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I did not state it is beyond secular resoning, I merely said its difficult to use a tool not meant for a certain purpose.Originally posted by laurence82:If assuming people agree this logic you state is beyond secular reasoning, or far superior...
Lets us put it this way:
You have a plastic knife to cut warm butter with. The plastic knife would represent the tool you use to gauge(measure) your logic(the butter).
Now in this situation, you give me this plastic butter knife and tell me to cut a well-done steak...
And finally, there is the question of who defines what 'logic' is, its boundaries and the tools used to gauge it? -
Like you said, and i quote, if faith works on a higher level of logicOriginally posted by plo30360:I did not state it is beyond secular resoning, I merely said its difficult to use a tool not meant for a certain purpose.
Lets us put it this way:
You have a plastic knife to cut warm butter with. The plastic knife would represent the tool you use to gauge(measure) your logic.
Now in this situation, you give me this plastic butter knife and tell me to cut a well-done steak...
And finally, there is the question of who defines what 'logic' is, its boundaries and the tools used to gauge it?
I believe, as to the first post i wrote that you quoted, that these two use different logic, or reasoning, whatever u like..which you have exemplified in this post i quote
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Then, I guess it is my bad for using the word 'higher'. I could not find a better word and to use the concept 'different logic' does not convey the full intended meaning.Originally posted by laurence82:Like you said, and i quote, if faith works on a higher level of logic
I believe, as to the first post i wrote that you quoted, that these two use different logic, or reasoning, whatever u like..which you have exemplified in this post i quote