Continue from Speaker's Corner
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So it is ok for homo not to procreate simply because it is a burden?Originally posted by stupidissmart:As said before, perfectly normal parents can give birth to homo. According to some experts, all men have a spectrum of preference to the same or opposite sex. For homo they have a higher preference to same sex, much like there r some people who r taller or shorter.
About procreation, is it their burden to procreate ? They choose not to, much like people who r single. If u felt tat procreation is a duty of the people then the church should condemn people from beng single, such as being a priest. Who knows if these priest can get married and have children, he may come out with nobel prize winning children or politican tat solved a conflict or musician tat make brand new music
Isn't it a burden to take care of old parents? So how? Can we choose not to have parents?
Procreation is a duty of ppl who decide to come together in a marriage. It is only natural that a couple want to have a child or children together if they are married and ARE IN LOVE. They want to produce something from their love for each other.
The choice of being single is allowed in every church, because the singlehood is nothing unnatural. They choose not to get married. It is different from choosing to do something that is against the law of nature. -
So it is ok for homo not to procreate simply because it is a burden?
I don;t think u r treating both issues fairly. GAys r wrong because they can't procreate while single r correct even when they too can't procreate ? If it is a burden then everyone share it equally, not just gays. Taking care of parents seems to be out of point since gays have an equal liklihood of taking care of their parents as hetero. Talking about natural, isn't there lot of evidence tat gays is largely natural in it ? Animals r gays and they r natural. Since u felt being natural is right, then gays r right as well.
Isn't it a burden to take care of old parents? So how? Can we choose not to have parents?Procreation is a duty of ppl who decide to come together in a marriage. It is only natural that a couple want to have a child or children together if they are married and ARE IN LOVE. They want to produce something from their love for each other.
They r in love ? God love us so he must produce something with us ? Who states tat those in love must procreate a child ? Who say tat people who had marriage must give birth ? -
I didn't say that they are wrong because they can't procreate. They are not allowed to get married because it is against nature.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don;t think u r treating both issues fairly. GAys r wrong because they can't procreate while single r correct even when they too can't procreate ? If it is a burden then everyone share it equally, not just gays. Taking care of parents seems to be out of point since gays have an equal liklihood of taking care of their parents as hetero. Talking about natural, isn't there lot of evidence tat gays is largely natural in it ? Animals r gays and they r natural. Since u felt being natural is right, then gays r right as well.
I bring out the parents on burden because you mentioned it and you asked "Isn't it a burden for them?" So the talk about parents is relevant.
I am happy to see you talking about animals, since I have "worked with" them for some years. So I see more relevance in the discussion for me. Name me a species that I can find whereby the males only want to be males (since you say animals are gays), and reject the female species. I don't see them in the Primates and I don't see them in the Cats. When mating season comes (which is usually after the winter), the male will automatically look for female or vice versa (in some species). I don't see any male animal that, during a mating season, look for another male. Maybe I am less knowledgable than you or maybe you are the animal expert while I am not. Can you enlighten me on that by giving me examples? -
God's love for us is a parent-child kind of love.Originally posted by stupidissmart:They r in love ? God love us so he must produce something with us ?Who states tat those in love must procreate a child ?
Not must. The word is "will". They will have it because they want it, not because any law says they must. They want it because they love.
Who say tat people who had marriage must give birth ?
When you reach the stage and you fully understand the fundamental of marriage , you will know what I mean. -
I didn't say that they are wrong because they can't procreate. They are not allowed to get married because it is against nature.
So u r a naturalist and beleiev tat being natural means god ? I can give u many examples of animals tat do find same sex partners.
I bring out the parents on burden because you mentioned it and you asked "Isn't it a burden for them?" So the talk about parents is relevant.
I am happy to see you talking about animals, since I have "worked with" them for some years. So I see more relevance in the discussion for me. Name me a species that I can find whereby the males only want to be males (since you say animals are gays), and reject the female species. I don't see them in the Primates and I don't see them in the Cats. When mating season comes (which is usually after the winter), the male will automatically look for female or vice versa (in some species). I don't see any male animal that, during a mating season, look for another male. Maybe I am less knowledgable than you or maybe you are the animal expert while I am not. Can you enlighten me on that by giving me examples?
Penguins can be gay
http://www.rockhawk.com/Gay%20Animals.htm
vultures can be gay
chimpanzees can be gay
rats can be gay
geese can be gay
http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/Science3.html
sheeps can be gay
http://www.narth.com/docs/sheep.html
western gulls r gay
Up to 15 percent of Western gull pairs are females. The birds woo each other with gifts of food and form bonds that last for years. They build joint nests and tend clutches of unfertilized eggs. Occasionally, one or both females will mate with males, but they always raise their young together.
Male giraffes spend most of their time in bachelor groups, where they entwine necks and rub against each other for up to an hour at a time. These "necking" sessions often culminate in mounting, and can outnumber heterosexual encounters 9 to 1.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002340835_gaycritter19m.html
U see, these animals r natural as obviously they aren't manmade. And they r gays. So gays r really natural -
Not must. The word is "will". They will have it because they want it, not because any law says they must. They want it because they love.
If they don't want it, it is nothing wrong isn't it ? U can't force a couple to have children because of your beliefWhen you reach the stage and you fully understand the fundamental of marriage , you will know what I mean.
Trust me, i have reach and gone beyond tat stage -
I suspect those individuals are the pawn of the game, to be weeded out according to Darwinian evolution.Originally posted by HENG@:really? then u have to explain to me why it is so rampant in so many species in the wild. My point is that there are enough heterosexuals to ensure the species's survival thru procreation, so whats "not quite right" about the existance of homosexuality alongside heterosexuality? -
to be able to quote is not enough.Originally posted by HENG@:And if u want to quote from the bible, I can too.
"Give thought to the work of God. Who will make straight what he has made bent?"
Ecclesiastes 7:13
Can you tell us the context of your quote? Who said that and why, in what circumstances? -
Nobody denies that perfectly normal parents can have homo offsprings (but the existence of the homo genes is still very much contentious heh?).Originally posted by stupidissmart:As said before, perfectly normal parents can give birth to homo. According to some experts, all men have a spectrum of preference to the same or opposite sex. For homo they have a higher preference to same sex, much like there r some people who r taller or shorter.
Come on lah, face it, more yandao guys are more likely to [be able to] fuck around and leave their sperms in more girls hence increase their chance of survivial.
It is all about Darwinian evolution. Can you deny that? -
I have a question..
1) If it is natural for some animals to kill other animals....and if being natural is 'right'....is it ok for humans to kill other humans also? -
Singles can procreate. If they have ONS without protection every night or two, very high chance something good will come out.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don;t think u r treating both issues fairly. GAys r wrong because they can't procreate while single r correct even when they too can't procreate ?
It is just they chose not to do it, or they did it with protection.
So God's admonition against homosexuality in the OT was not exactly unfair. The Jewish tradition places high regards for the family and marriage. This is one reason why they could survive in the diaspora. They are unlike Christian priests and nuns who value celibacy. All the sages in the Jewish Talmud are married. There was one guy who didnt and was criticised by his fellow rabbis .. lol
So you see, God's intention was good. He wanted us to enjoy good family life. No wonder his first postive commandment was "be fruitful and multiply".
oh yah, in case anyone of you are not familiar, Jewish couples are supposed to .. erm .. make love every Sabbath night. It is almost like a commandment to them.
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We kill animals anyway. Its not common, even thou there are cases, to see animals killing their own kind.Originally posted by laoda99:I have a question..
1) If it is natural for some animals to kill other animals....and if being natural is 'right'....is it ok for humans to kill other humans also? -
1) If it's a natural instinct for animals/humans to kill, shouldn't humans be allowed to kill others without any punishment, since it is a "naturally right" thing to do?
My view is: we all live in a fallen world....what seems natural may not be 'naturally right'.....pride/ego....lust....greed all these comes naturally for men but it is not right..... -
Nobody denies that perfectly normal parents can have homo offsprings (but the existence of the homo genes is still very much contentious heh?).
Com'on, u know a perfect species cannot exists at the current moment. Taller guys can have a higher chance of leaving their offsprings, but yet in tis world there r such people who r shorter. Preety men/women have a higher chance of having offspring too, but then there r still ugly people around. People with cancer genes also live shorter and have lower chance of having offsprings. Yet cancer is still largely genetic in human race. It is all darwin evolution, and evolution need time and it never promise perfect species can be achieved
Come on lah, face it, more yandao guys are more likely to [be able to] $^#* around and leave their sperms in more girls hence increase their chance of survivial.
It is all about Darwinian evolution. Can you deny that? -
Singles can procreate. If they have ONS without protection every night or two, very high chance something good will come out. It is just they chose not to do it, or they did it with protection.
Can priest procreate ? Catholic support priest not to get married yet do nto supprot homo. Why ?So God's admonition against homosexuality in the OT was not exactly unfair. The Jewish tradition places high regards for the family and marriage. This is one reason why they could survive in the diaspora. They are unlike Christian priests and nuns who value celibacy. All the sages in the Jewish Talmud are married. There was one guy who didnt and was criticised by his fellow rabbis .. lol
So the christian and catholic r wrong to have priest and nuns tat value calibracy ? They should follow god commandement and make love every sabbath night ?
So you see, God's intention was good. He wanted us to enjoy good family life. No wonder his first postive commandment was "be fruitful and multiply".
oh yah, in case anyone of you are not familiar, Jewish couples are supposed to .. erm .. make love every Sabbath night. It is almost like a commandment to them.If it's a natural instinct for animals/humans to kill, shouldn't humans be allowed to kill others without any punishment, since it is a "naturally right" thing to do?
Killing affects other people and it is a decision made by the individual. Homo do not affect other people and in many scientific papers, it is consider natural. When it is natural, it means god create these peopel to be homo. Then he blame them for being homo and discriminate them ? -
When did I argue for a perfect species?
but if you are short or ugly still not so bad. but sexual preference has to do with the spreading of genes, it is one trait that kills all other good traits. -
You are not obliged, but you should.Originally posted by Icemoon:You are mixing personal preference with discrimination.
I mean, are we all obliged to like every single human on earth? -
How does homo not affect other people around him? e.g. his family, his wife (if he is a closet gay), his friends etc....Originally posted by stupidissmart:Killing affects other people and it is a decision made by the individual. Homo do not affect other people and in many scientific papers, it is consider natural. When it is natural, it means god create these peopel to be homo. Then he blame them for being homo and discriminate them ?
I have come across a case of a husband, who admitted he is gay, was blackmailed by his gay lover. The husband and wife are both teachers and have two lovely kids. The whole family is deeply distressed by the incident. So how can it not affect others? -
well, i can't agree on the idea of celibacy. Even the Jewish sages get to enjoy sexual intimacy every Sabbath night .. haha .. why deny priests this entitlement from God?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Can priest procreate ? Catholic support priest not to get married yet do nto supprot homo. Why ?
So the christian and catholic r wrong to have priest and nuns tat value calibracy ? They should follow god commandement and make love every sabbath night ?
Well, let's just say they violated God's first commandment given to mankind when Adam and Eve were created. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Agreed with esp 2nd and 3rd paragraph...
Singles can procreate. If they have ONS without protection every night or two, very high chance something good will come out. It is just they chose not to do it, or they did it with protection.
[b]So God's admonition against homosexuality in the OT was not exactly unfair. The Jewish tradition places high regards for the family and marriage. This is one reason why they could survive in the diaspora. They are unlike Christian priests and nuns who value celibacy. All the sages in the Jewish Talmud are married. There was one guy who didnt and was criticised by his fellow rabbis .. lol
So you see, God's intention was good. He wanted us to enjoy good family life. No wonder his first postive commandment was "be fruitful and multiply".
oh yah, in case anyone of you are not familiar, Jewish couples are supposed to .. erm .. make love every Sabbath night. It is almost like a commandment to them. [/b]
Christian workers remain celibate as a choice (according to paul) so tat they can devote their time to god. -
For SIS:
Some animals such as giraffes practice necking, but that's still different from having sex. Male giraffes show affection by necking. -
Then its the guy fault for not being open with his wife. But if they guy loves a man and a woman, isnt he a Bisexual? And the reason why the wife is distressed is because she isnt open minded either.Originally posted by laoda99:How does homo not affect other people around him? e.g. his family, his wife (if he is a closet gay), his friends etc....
I have come across a case of a husband, who admitted he is gay, was blackmailed by his gay lover. The husband and wife are both teachers and have two lovely kids. The whole family is deeply distressed by the incident. So how can it not affect others? -
hmm .. devote their time to god to do what?Originally posted by laoda99:Christian workers remain celibate as a choice (according to paul) so tat they can devote their time to god.
Mother Theresa can open orphanage. Protestants also open orphanage. If you mean studying the bible whole heartedly .. hello .. our Jewish rabbis studied their Scripture even more heartedly.
Actually if you think of it hor .. Paul got reason for saying that one. Maybe he couldn't get a wife (I suspect he wasn't married) and was jealous of those who could. Paul wasn't exactly yandao - he was bald and short.
Hmm .. if we look at Priscilla and Aquilla in the NT, one very successful couple, we see they could still devote their time to god? -
He is a closet gay...Originally posted by shade343:Then its the guy fault for not being open with his wife. But if they guy loves a man and a woman, isnt he a Bisexual? And the reason why the wife is distressed is because she isnt open minded either.
If u are the wife, will u not be distressed too? Will u be able to keep an open mind after ur husband secretly indulge in sex with other men and then got blackmail?
Luckily, the wife forgave the man....I didn't know what happened after it though.... -
It is written in the bible according to Paul.Originally posted by Icemoon:hmm .. devote their time to god to do what?
Mother Theresa can open orphanage. Protestants also open orphanage. If you mean studying the bible whole heartedly .. hello .. our Jewish rabbis studied their Scripture even more heartedly.
Actually if you think of it hor .. Paul got reason for saying that one. Maybe he couldn't get a wife (I suspect he wasn't married) and was jealous of those who could. Paul wasn't exactly yandao - he was bald and short.
It is said that in the bible that Paul really wants to live a normal life and have a wife, he said it himself in the epistles. But he chose not to. Imagine him running around churches distances away....where to have the time to start a family?
But Paul also say it is better for one to get married so tat he is not consumed by fires...something like tat.....so it is actually up to the individual....
For my view, it is obviously better for persons to get married....