My thoughts these few days....

• laoda99

  25 Jul 05, 10:51

  1) Realise the ungrace in our church, our society and the cycle of ungrace which is continuing when we cannot forgive others e.g. radical muslims bombing cities, homosexuals are condemned and left church etc. All these will continue until one party start to forgive/ask for forgiveness of others. I realise this works, even for my relationship.
  
  2) We are all oddballs, like what Philip Yancey says. It does not make one a lesser sinner in god's eyes despite the difference in sins. Homosexuals, adulterers, theives, heterosexuals who visit prostitutes etc, everyone of us are all sinners/oddballs. When god forgives us, he forgave ALL the sinners/oddballs, not just the heterosexuals.
  
  3) Christ came to forgive not to condemn. One should constantly reflect upon oneself and take the initiative to forgive/ask for forgiveness and love others becoz god has love us so. "Forgive us for our trespasses, as we forgive others who trespasses against us." shows that forgiveness need to start from us, then god will forgive us.
  
  4) The church should be more forgiving towards homosexuals. When Christ came, he reached out his hands to the unclean, the desperate, the adulterers, all the oddballs in society etc. The Church should be more christ-like and accept those whom they deem as 'oddballs'. We are all oddballs. Who is to say a homosexual is more of an oddball than a heterosexual? We are all sinners who have fell short of glory.
  
  5) What the church could do: forgive the homosexuals/ask for their forgiveness....accept them back into church, treat them as equals who also love by god, counsel them, pray for them, give them the support they need. Guide them on the straight path, as god guides us on our paths. This may not be possible over a single night, but if all of us pray and ask for forgiveness, breaking the chains of ungrace, god will make all things possible for us.
• dragg

  25 Jul 05, 10:55

  christians really spend their time doing nothing but think about GOD?
  
  
• laoda99

  25 Jul 05, 11:03

  Originally posted by dragg:

  christians really spend their time doing nothing but think about GOD?
  
  

  dragg, frankly...real christians think abt god always, whether eating, sleeping etc.
  
  when we become christians, we give up our will to do the things we want to do. It is not wrong to say all we give up all our own rights when we acknowledge god, pray that he guide us to do his will and not ours.
• dragg

  25 Jul 05, 11:07

  used to be like you when i first accepted christ.
  
  hope you can last till the kingdom comes.
  
  
• laoda99

  25 Jul 05, 11:09

  Originally posted by dragg:

  used to be like you when i first accepted christ.
  
  hope you can last till the kingdom comes.
  
  

  I will pray for god's strength. It is easy to lose faith, not easy to build up though. Even my devoted friends say 10 yrs down the road who knows whether we are still christians or not.
  
  I will pray for his guidance and understanding, acknowledge him always and not lean on my own understanding.
  
  I will pray for u too.
• M©+square

  25 Jul 05, 22:12

  Originally posted by dragg:

  used to be like you when i first accepted christ.
  
  hope you can last till the kingdom comes.
  
  

  I hope for him too.
  
  Such fervency.
• vitabrevistham

  28 Jul 05, 11:48

  Halo laoda99
  
  Do you mind if you elaborate on Point Number One? I will like to know more about what you mean by "forgiveness" and its implications.
  
  I think the challenge for all Christians is to abide by the moral rule of "Love the sinner but hate the sin". When Jesus Christ commanded us to "love thy neighbour", essentially He meant that we should wish for the good of that person. However we tend to overlap the sinner and the sin - sometimes condemnation of the sin may unintentionally lead to discrimination against the sinner.
  
  When we fail to forgive, we are myopic and forgetful that God has first forgiven us.
  
  At the end of the day, personally for myself, I think it is always prudent and wise to not judge lest we overlook the plank in our own eyes.
• laoda99

  28 Jul 05, 11:55

  Originally posted by vitabrevistham:

  Halo laoda99
  
  Do you mind if you elaborate on Point Number One? I will like to know more about what you mean by "forgiveness" and its implications.
  
  I think the challenge for all Christians is to abide by the moral rule of "Love the sinner but hate the sin". When Jesus Christ commanded us to "love thy neighbour", essentially He meant that we should wish for the good of that person. However we tend to overlap the sinner and the sin - sometimes condemnation of the sin may unintentionally lead to discrimination against the sinner.
  
  When we fail to forgive, we are myopic and forgetful that God has first forgiven us.
  
  At the end of the day, personally for myself, I think it is always prudent and wise to not judge lest we overlook the plank in our own eyes.

  Sure vita,
  
  "Forgiveness" means we forgive sinners of all sorts etc and bring them back to church. My view is: the church emphasizes too much on morality/legalism, so much so that these pple are rejected and thrown out of church. I find that the right thing to do is to accept them back into the church, guide them on the straight path as god guides us, so that their spiritual life will grow and not sink deeper outside of church.
  
  Agreed with u totally. I share the same views as u too.
  
  
• Ironside

  21 Aug 05, 10:22

  Originally posted by dragg:

  used to be like you when i first accepted christ.
  
  hope you can last till the kingdom comes.
  
  

  Christian's burn out as a result of trying to make it through their own in the grind of spiritual life. Our duty is to rely and walk in step with the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature will not take the upper hand.
  
  Another thing that comforts me in this journey of faith is God's promised preservation to those who are truly His. Many inumerable verses come to mind:
  
  Jer 32:38 'They shall be My people, and I will be their God;
  
  39 'then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.
  
  40 'And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.
  
  Now, I am a dispensationalist, i believe that the Church of God is a distinct entity from Israel. And certainly this verses refer primarily to Israel when they will be regenerated before the coming Mellinium.
  
  Some may argue that this promise does not refer to the Church but to Israel. But, however it must be noted that this refers to the New Covenant enacted by the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross, and the Church is a partaker of that covenant at least in spiritual blessings. And the promises above refer to the spiritual blessing of the New Covenant. God will put into the hearts of those who are truly His His fear that we may not depart from Him completely and finally.
  
  another verse will do if one is incredulous about this:
  
  Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
  
  God is the one who preserves His saints. He elected them, then He preserves them to the end. God is Nissi [a warrior, the One who fights for us],
  God not only fights with us, but He also fights for us against the world, against temptations and against ourselves.
  
  Another set of verses that speak of God's preservation
  
  1Cor. 1:8 "who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
  
  1Pe 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
  
  4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
  5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
  
  Again the verses speaks of the preservation of God."
  
  Question: "Since God preserves us to the end, shall we then sit back and be spectators in the battle?" Of course not!!!! The question is simillar to Paul's question in Romans 6: "shall we continue to sin since we are not under law but under grace'? Paul answers: Certainly not!!!!
  
  Rather, this should give us the incentive to press on, for the battle is winnable though seemingly hard, tedious and wearying. Now it is wrong to be over-confident and not take precautionary measures against ourselves and temptation for that is presumptousness and pride, but it is also wrong to have this defeatist attitude rob us of sane and God-given confidence that we can win the battle and make it through.
  
  One of Satan's tricks is to convince us that we can't make it. Discouragement undermines our strength. So let's be wary and be vigilant about this.
  
  To conclude:
  
  The one whom God has preserved, perseveres because he knows that the battle is winnable for the war was already won at the cross.
  
  
• breytonhartge

  21 Aug 05, 10:36

  Originally posted by dragg:

  used to be like you when i first accepted christ.
  
  hope you can last till the kingdom comes.
  
  

  so dragg, what's happened to your walk with Christ?