Why pple fled from the church...
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err.. the leviticus laws? the need to believe each and every word in the bible.. some of which are seriously outdated.. especially if you examine those paragraphs which seem to downplay women's role in the society..Originally posted by Icemoon:huh .. this is so funny .. the christian teachings are very attractive and I don't understand what you mean by outdated teachings.
and you sort of contradict yourself with your points. You said Islam is on the rise, but you ignore the fact the religion has more "outdated" teachings than Christianity.
the number of believers can be due to 2 factors: 1) whether the religion can attract new believers and 2) the birth rates of the region spreading these religious beliefs..
i've broken down my paragraph into 2 main points.. the first point simply argue that muslims are on the rise because of poor "birth" control.. =p christian countries on the other hand, are very effective in contraceptive.. in fact, in most european countries and US, the birth rates have become a major concern.. -
i did not..Originally posted by laoda99:do u seriously think Christianity is the only one holding on to values and teachings important 2000 yrs ago? are u saying pple of other faiths have discarded all their values and teachings that were important 2000 yrs back?
which writings do not have 'human' influence (recorded by men) ?
people nowadays can have more varieties.. especially atheism and universalism.. but it doesnt mean that atheism or universalism is in total contradiction when it comes to holding on to wholesome values.. whether a person is moral or not has nothing to do with whether he's a religious person or not..
and in buddhism, buddha spoke of general principles, not specific rules.. and Buddhists are well aware that the Dharma was not written by god.. but by buddha's disciples.. hence, the "human" aspect of the religion has always been central to Buddhists.. -
the sermons are terribly boring
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huh .. Chrisitians today still follow the leviticus laws? I thought laoda already argued the grace of Christ is sufficient for all?Originally posted by earthlings73:err.. the leviticus laws? the need to believe each and every word in the bible.. some of which are seriously outdated.. especially if you examine those paragraphs which seem to downplay women's role in the society..
I dunno leh .. you say those paragraphs downplay but some paragraphs up-play leh.
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x2Originally posted by earthlings73:whether a person is moral or not has nothing to do with whether he's a religious person or not.. -
you suay suay attended boring sermons lah.Originally posted by ceecookie:the sermons are terribly boring
btw what kind of person are you? intellectual type? what kind of sermon can attract you then? -
Religion is to help you in three things:-
a) overcome ghost and hauntings
b) know what punishment you gonna get for the crimes you committed when you are alive
c) Lets you write something on the forms you fill up when you see "Religion: _______________ "
Dun make it do wonders when we are lousy beings... -
WHy is Islam on the way up? BEcause of Al-Qaeda?
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higher birthrates in Middle East/South East Asia (specifically Malaysia/Indonesia) than Europe/North America..Originally posted by iveco:WHy is Islam on the way up? BEcause of Al-Qaeda?
ah.. but i must admit that this is a general perception.. i might be wrong.. please challenge me if you guys found evidences that suggest otherwise.. -
nah.. not all..Originally posted by Icemoon:huh .. Chrisitians today still follow the leviticus laws? I thought laoda already argued the grace of Christ is sufficient for all?
I dunno leh .. you say those paragraphs downplay but some paragraphs up-play leh.
1) there are some who believe that you must believe each and every word in the bible (hence practice).. just look ard at this forum..
2) there are some who believe that certain practices in Leviticus are outdated.. but certain practices should still remain.. (look at the threads on gays)..
3) there are some who try to understand the key lessons learnt behind all those bible stories (the more progressive christians)..
I do not know what's the breakdown like but for me at least, I'm pretty turned off by the first 2 categories..
btw, i'm not crticising christians or what.. especially when there's a wide spectrum of christians ard.. i'm just addressing why do someone like me never consider joining a church (thread topic).. well, being called a joker certainly doesnt help.. -
Which is a very good reason why the Catholic Church has always disapproved of birth control.Originally posted by earthlings73:i've broken down my paragraph into 2 main points.. the first point simply argue that muslims are on the rise because of poor "birth" control.. =p christian countries on the other hand, are very effective in contraceptive.. in fact, in most european countries and US, the birth rates have become a major concern.. -
I'd say that all Christians should believe in each and every word in the Bible in the context the words were written, otherwise don't be a Christian. Having said that understanding the context will mean that some portions are either relevant only at the point of writing, or that the passage was meant specifically to certain readers.
1) there are some who believe that you must believe each and every word in the bible (hence practice).. just look ard at this forum..
For most parts, whether practices in Leviticus are outdated or not needed some validation in the NT. Paul did write some about homosexuals and other sexual sins.
2) there are some who believe that certain practices in Leviticus are outdated.. but certain practices should still remain.. (look at the threads on gays)..
3) there are some who try to understand the key lessons learnt behind all those bible stories (the more progressive christians).. I hope I fall into this category.
I do not know what's the breakdown like but for me at least, I'm pretty turned off by the first 2 categories..
btw, i'm not crticising christians or what.. especially when there's a wide spectrum of christians ard.. i'm just addressing why do someone like me never consider joining a church (thread topic).. well, being called a joker certainly doesnt help.. don't blame you... some of these piss me off too..... I hope you'll meet some of the more progressive ones soon.
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What about in those poor nations? They have populations spiralling out of control.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Which is a very good reason why the Catholic Church has always disapproved of birth control. -
1) God has given us his grace; no more punishment for ALL sins when Christ died for us on the cross.
2) If u love God, follow his commandments: Love the lord ur god / love ur neighbour.
3) I will not judge anymore, any judging will be for GOD to judge....we will all do our part and follow Christ's example of love and forgiveness, and most importantly of all, do what god want u to do and not what u want to do urself.
4) If one truely loves god, he should run away from his sins for the cross. It is difficult no doubt, but easier and achievable if one pray to god at all times for direction. Acknowledge the lord always and not lean on own understanding, and he shall make ur path straight.
5) Christians: let's all pray for all the non-christians here.... -
Grace to u!Originally posted by earthlings73:higher birthrates in Middle East/South East Asia (specifically Malaysia/Indonesia) than Europe/North America..
ah.. but i must admit that this is a general perception.. i might be wrong.. please challenge me if you guys found evidences that suggest otherwise..
Wat i believe: pple are leaving churches becoz they cannot find recouncilation between scriptures and their lifestyles. Most see it as a religion, not a relationship between god and himself. They also fail to understand the most important part of the message in the bible: grace.
Unlike islam, they see it as a relationship between allah and themselves, and all the code of law given by the prophet are eternally binding and correct. The code of law is punishing also to those who want to leave the muslim faith. So once u believe as a muslim, u can never backslide. Seeing the deterioriation of values in the west make pple more convince that a code of law is needed to guide pple in these uneasy times, and Islam provided that answer for most pple.
The church is also partly to be blamed, emphasize on 'can-dos' and 'cannot-dos' too much until the grace message is diminished. Pple left church when they feel rejected (homosexuals/adulterers etc) and when they cannot recouncil the preachings to grace and to their own lifestyles. The ungrace present in the church will not help this situation. Men knew they are all sinners, so when they conform to the church, they leave the church. Hence a drop in the number of Christians.