An open letter to anyone who can listen here....
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It is not wat u do, but wat GOD has freely given to u that assured ur salvation.
No other faith in the world have this grace freely given to u unconditionally, except thru Christ.
It is sad that Christians, even those long in the faith and who once walked closely with GOD, still see themselves living under legalism/morality instead of GOD's grace. If one do not believe that his salvation is assured by faith thru Christ alone, then what Christ has done on the cross has been taken in vain.
A Christian who is not assured of his own salvation is incapable of preaching effectively to non-believers. How can he preach that others are saved when he himself is not?
The Church is not perfect, but if one is going to let the failures of men affect his decision concerning his own salvation, I can say unfortunately he has been misled. As Christians, our role is to preach and to plant the seed of faith. The rest is up to GOD and the person. We cannot be blamed for that particular individual losing his salvation, after all it is a relationship between GOD and that individual; Nobody can decide for him/her whether they want to receive Christ in their lives. -
are you sure it is unconditional?
there are plenty of rules to follow.
by the grace of GOD salvation is guaranteed? please take a look around you, at the behaviour or all your brothers and sisters in christ.
are you saying by the grace of GOD believers, regardless of behaviour, will go to heaven? -
By the grace of GOD, salvation is guaranteed. If not, how u think we can keep these laws/rules perfectly? It is by GOD's grace that we are spared from eternal condemnation.Originally posted by dragg:are you sure it is unconditional?
there are plenty of rules to follow.
by the grace of GOD salvation is guaranteed? please take a look around you, at the behaviour or all your brothers and sisters in christ.
are you saying by the grace of GOD believers, regardless of behaviour, will go to heaven?
Christians who do not believe in their own salvation are incapable of convincing others of their salvation. How non-believers would believe u if u urself is in doubt? When GOD gives us his grace, it is a definite "YES"...not "Mebbe"...
Do not judge Christ by judging Christians, u should know this very well too....
By the grace of GOD, believers will go heaven. When I say believers, u should know what i mean....not lukewarm ones....but those who stand fast to Christ... -
if you choose to believe that by the grace of GOD, salvation is guaranteed then by all means enjoy your time in heaven.Originally posted by laoda99:By the grace of GOD, salvation is guaranteed. If not, how u think we can keep these laws/rules perfectly? It is by GOD's grace that we are spared from eternal condemnation.
Do not judge Christ by judging Christians, u should know this very well too....
By the grace of GOD, believers will go heaven. When I say believers, u should know what i mean.... -
Salvation is guaranteed - John 3:16Originally posted by dragg:are you sure it is unconditional?
there are plenty of rules to follow.
by the grace of GOD salvation is guaranteed? please take a look around you, at the behaviour or all your brothers and sisters in christ.
are you saying by the grace of GOD believers, regardless of behaviour, will go to heaven?
Salvation is personal - no need to look beyond oneself.
Rewards are not guaranteed - we got to work at it, according to various letters by Paul and the other writers.
There are varying degree of what is acceptable behaviour of a Christian. At the end of the day, it should not matter to the individual. Having said that, genuine acceptance of Christ will lead to good behaviour - may not happen overnight, but the desire to improve one's behaviour should always there. -
i will. But not now. Thank u very much. I will pray for u also.Originally posted by dragg:if you choose to believe that by the grace of GOD, salvation is guaranteed then by all means enjoy your time in heaven.
Hope u can also enjoy your time in heaven in time to come. -
salvation is conditional. you dont go to heaven just by accepting christ into you. it is true there are varying degree of what is acceptable behaviour of a christian. but whether one will eventually go to heaven depends on GOD. after all tell me who actually follows the word of GOD.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Salvation is guaranteed - John 3:16
Salvation is personal - no need to look beyond oneself.
Rewards are not guaranteed - we got to work at it, according to various letters by Paul and the other writers.
There are varying degree of what is acceptable behaviour of a Christian. At the end of the day, it should not matter to the individual. Having said that, genuine acceptance of Christ will lead to good behaviour - may not happen overnight, but the desire to improve one's behaviour should always there.
i have seen plenty of christians telling me they have salvation and are going to heaven. but unfortunately their behaviour tell me otherwise. -
Agree with u esp on the last para, i also believe genuine acceptance of Christ will lead to good behaviour. One may not see it immediately, but it will happen. The testimonies of those drug addicts/criminals turned christians are shining examples.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Salvation is guaranteed - John 3:16
Salvation is personal - no need to look beyond oneself.
Rewards are not guaranteed - we got to work at it, according to various letters by Paul and the other writers.
There are varying degree of what is acceptable behaviour of a Christian. At the end of the day, it should not matter to the individual. Having said that, genuine acceptance of Christ will lead to good behaviour - may not happen overnight, but the desire to improve one's behaviour should always there. -
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Christ told the thief crucified with him:"Surely today u will be with me in paradise." It is a definite "YES" not a "MEBBE". We know that GOD can be trusted in his promises with us.
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Agreed for that particular case.Originally posted by laoda99:Christ told the thief crucified with him:"Surely today u will be with me in paradise." It is a definite "YES" not a "MEBBE". We know that GOD can be trusted in his promises with us.
The rest.
I only have problems which NCC's grace sermon. The rest are ok. -
Agreed for that particular case.Originally posted by laoda99:Christ told the thief crucified with him:"Surely today u will be with me in paradise." It is a definite "YES" not a "MEBBE". We know that GOD can be trusted in his promises with us.
The rest.
I only have problems with NCC's grace sermon. The rest are ok. -
Haha....in NCC, I think the grace message is clear. Just that I do not approve of other issues in the church. One must be happy in the church he is worshipping. That's why I went to another.Originally posted by M©+square:Agreed for that particular case.
The rest.
I only have problems with NCC's grace sermon. The rest are ok. -
Do all the evilOriginally posted by Chin Eng:Salvation is guaranteed - John 3:16
Salvation is personal - no need to look beyond oneself.
I want for the rest of my life and spend my last day of my life believe in Christ and I will go to heaven 
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sure... on the assumption that your believing in Christ at the LAST MINUTE is genuine a-la the thief on one side of Christ as given by Laoda....Originally posted by maggot:Do all the evil I want for the rest of my life and spend my last day of my life believe in Christ and I will go to heaven
Who are we to argue with God as to what's fair and what's not? Read verse below or scroll lower for a summary:
Matt 20
1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
to summarise the above passage: some workers boi song that other workers are paid the same for working less, so boss is unfair. Boss said (v15): my farm my rules, as long as I pay as I had agreed upon.Originally posted by dragg:salvation is conditional. you dont go to heaven just by accepting christ into you. it is true there are varying degree of what is acceptable behaviour of a christian. but whether one will eventually go to heaven depends on GOD. after all tell me who actually follows the word of GOD.
i have seen plenty of christians telling me they have salvation and are going to heaven. but unfortunately their behaviour tell me otherwise.
Where did you get that salvation is conditional, unless, of course, you are writing from a perspective of another religion, than that's ok with me....
However I think the view expressed in EH Christians are from the Christian perspective - and that of: salvation is unconditional. Having said that, if you are a leader of another religion, you can define salvation any way you want....
Again I like to reiterate that salvation and behaviour do not necessary go hand in hand, as much as it should. We do not change overnight. Many of us try very very hard to be exemplery in our behaviour, we win sometimes, we lose sometimes. Sometimes we don't even know we behave badly and has to be told off. Of course, it does not mean that every Christian is trying to leave a life of good behaviour, some are still rotten to the core....
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well...if it pleases u to do evil and u can bear the conscience, and provided u know when is ur last day...probably u can take the risk....Originally posted by maggot:Do all the evil I want for the rest of my life and spend my last day of my life believe in Christ and I will go to heaven
if not, i would suggest u do evil no more and start believing now....
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Are you telling me that backsliders are still going to be saved? Where did you get that salvation is conditional, unless, of course, you are writing from a perspective of another religion, than that's ok with me....
However I think the view expressed in EH Christians are from the Christian perspective - and that of: salvation is unconditional. Having said that, if you are a leader of another religion, you can define salvation any way you want....
Again I like to reiterate that salvation and behaviour do not necessary go hand in hand, as much as it should. We do not change overnight. Many of us try very very hard to be exemplery in our behaviour, we win sometimes, we lose sometimes. Sometimes we don't even know we behave badly and has to be told off. Of course, it does not mean that every Christian is [b]trying to leave a life of good behaviour, some are still rotten to the core.... [/b] Those who believed Christ for a period however they changed Master to worship will go heaven in the end?
Those Christians who have the knowledge of sins and it's effects yet DELIBRATELY sin anyway. Will they still mantain their salvation?
I agree that Salvation - Grace is unconditionally given only with the condition only to accept and recieve. -
my views:Originally posted by M©+square:Are you telling me that backsliders are still going to be saved? Those who believed Christ for a period however they changed Master to worship will go heaven in the end?
Those Christians who have the knowledge of sins and it's effects yet DELIBRATELY sin anyway. Will they still mantain their salvation?
I agree that Salvation - Grace is unconditionally given only with the condition only to accept and recieve.
backsliders are still going to be saved by the lord, as he still loves them. The thing in question now is like what u mention...changed master to worship....
i truely believe if the backslider can recouncil with god again...he can be saved....after all....it is he who backslided....but GOD never gives up on us...
As for those Christians who deliberately sin, they may suffer their own consequences...e.g. if one commit adultery...he/she will already have a heavy conscience here on earth....when they die they will have to face GOD themselves for their own consequences...
read the parable of the prodigal son.... are u a lost son too? -
I wish I knew the answer....Originally posted by M©+square:Are you telling me that backsliders are still going to be saved? Those who believed Christ for a period however they changed Master to worship will go heaven in the end?
Those Christians who have the knowledge of sins and it's effects yet DELIBRATELY sin anyway. Will they still mantain their salvation?
I agree that Salvation - Grace is unconditionally given only with the condition only to accept and recieve.
My gut feeling is: as long as these backsliders did not REJECT Christ, I don't see why can't they be saved.
I am not sure if there are Christians who have NO knowledge of at least some their sins. I sure as hell know what mine are (notice the plural form). But hey, I am working on it. So if I croak tomorrow, do I believe that I go to heaven? Sure, why not.
If salvation is based on a perfect life at the point of death, I think heaven is a very empty place. -
OOkieOriginally posted by Chin Eng:I wish I knew the answer....
My gut feeling is: as long as these backsliders did not REJECT Christ, I don't see why can't they be saved.
I am not sure if there are Christians who have NO knowledge of at least some their sins. I sure as hell know what mine are (notice the plural form). But hey, I am working on it. So if I croak tomorrow, do I believe that I go to heaven? Sure, why not.
If salvation is based on a perfect life at the point of death, I think heaven is a very empty place. -
I give this question a pass.Originally posted by laoda99:my views:
backsliders are still going to be saved by the lord, as he still loves them. The thing in question now is like what u mention...changed master to worship....
i truely believe if the backslider can recouncil with god again...he can be saved....after all....it is he who backslided....but GOD never gives up on us...
As for those Christians who deliberately sin, they may suffer their own consequences...e.g. if one commit adultery...he/she will already have a heavy conscience here on earth....when they die they will have to face GOD themselves for their own consequences...
read the parable of the prodigal son.... are u a lost son too? -
It is by His grace that we are able to keep the rules. It is by His grace that we gain eternal life with Him. However, one can lose this grace.Originally posted by laoda99:By the grace of GOD, salvation is guaranteed. If not, how u think we can keep these laws/rules perfectly? It is by GOD's grace that we are spared from eternal condemnation. -
I agree with u totally.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:It is by His grace that we are able to keep the rules. It is by His grace that we gain eternal life with Him. However, one can lose this grace.