Anton LaVey
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I've also learnt "Catholic Grace" from a late elderly friend of mine. He's all smiles and very willing to accept that non-of us younger ones are all perfect. Somehow the spirit is with him all the time when he's always encouraging us to learn and grow .Originally posted by laoda99:i agree with u totally, thanks for taking time to reply to me...u have been most patient and kind....
Although I'm more an Atheist when I met him , i've become charmed by grace and faith , and willing to accept other's imperfection from other faiths as well. Its always good to accept new friends from other faiths , our real shine comes from deeper within our spirits we never know.
God makes use of us in times we didn't know it happens , sometimes we're filled with the spirit to learn , and other times our spirit gives without telling us we're already giving.
We're more delusioned to think that ourselves have all the answers. Then why do we need to seek answers?
Obi-Wan-Kenobi: "May the force be with you."
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May the force be with u
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What i'm saying is the deeds which a Christian does SHOULD be inspired by faith and grace, which these are ultimately from God.Originally posted by OH-FF:Disbelieve is actually to ignore the existance of Holy Spirit which is already with you. Which is why there is a need for your "logic" to prove that it exists. I've already said it's not something that you can take and show people.
But having Faith and Grace, your Holy Spirit shines within you thus accepting all other spirits . Who although in this body different, we're all the same with God's love.
I'm not sure about your 2nd para, maybe i'm looking too much into it.
Cheers -
just so u know, im only saying in my post why i've been to stagmont b4, im not saying how many times i've been there. i've not made or denied any claims. so perhaps u would like to stop inferring things on your own and putting words into my mouth? besides mr Troll, i think its time u and your clones either shut up or come into the open. don't try to act innocent. everyone knows u're guilty.Originally posted by iveco:Unless I'm mistaken, your spooky experience happened in 2001. You were still in sec school back then? How old are you?
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I dont really have any answer to what you're not sure about but you can seek inspiration from understanding why your spirit exists within you and why it also exists within others.Originally posted by M©+square:What i'm saying is the deeds which a Christian does SHOULD be inspired by faith and grace, which these are ultimately from God.
I'm not sure about your 2nd para, maybe i'm looking too much into it.
Cheers
Why you think you are so different and unique from others? That God should love you more or less because of what you do or who you pray to? I'm do not have answers to these questions i've asked . And i asked them many times before. But have faith and know that all spirits are one that we're all from God. -
Out of topic again.
This guy.. is an idiot. Even if I'm not a Christian, I still feel he is a moron. Watch too much Dracula movies liao.
And to think I actually wanted to get a membership card for the fun of it.. once upon a stupid young time. -
I thought your question is cool.Originally posted by OH-FF:I dont really have any answer to what you're not sure about but you can seek inspiration from understanding why your spirit exists within you and why it also exists within others.
Why you think you are so different and unique from others? That God should love you more or less because of what you do or who you pray to? I'm do not have answers to these questions i've asked . And i asked them many times before. But have faith and know that all spirits are one that we're all from God.
So i'll conclude with this verse which i held on for years.
[Amplified version] Philippians Chapter 3
15So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and hold these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also.
16Only let us hold true to what we have already attained and walk and order our lives by that.
(read Chapter 3 for contextual interpretation.)
Cheers -
OH-FF,Originally posted by OH-FF:Why you think you are so different and unique from others? That God should love you more or less because of what you do or who you pray to? I'm do not have answers to these questions i've asked . And i asked them many times before. But have faith and know that all spirits are one that we're all from God.
As Christians, what we believe are strictly from the bible. If Jesus had said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes unto the father but by me." in the bible, it must be correct: Christ is The Way.
If Christ is simply "a way", then there is no need for the apostles to spread his word and make disciples in the world, coz all faiths are one. Simple as that.
Mebbe ur faith in Sai Baba subscribe to that Christ is "a way", but for Christians, there can not be any ambiguity about it. I respect that u have a different faith, but Christ being "the way" is what we Christians stand fast to. Otherwise, we cannot call ourselves Christians, but new age believers who believe in a different Christ.
Cheers! -
Originally posted by laoda99:
honestly i need to point out a glaringly obvious point here: Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life"
OH-FF,
As Christians, what we believe are strictly from the bible. If Jesus had said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes unto the father but by me." in the bible, it must be correct: [b]Christ is The Way.
If Christ is simply "a way", then there is no need for the apostles to spread his word and make disciples in the world, coz all faiths are one. Simple as that.
Cheers![/b]
At no point did he say "The bible is the way"
Perhaps Christianity should be renamed Biblenity to reflect the true nature of the religion? -
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oi... *points at subject title*
talk about him lah... -
Nothing to talk about liao.Originally posted by sillyme:oi... *points at subject title*
talk about him lah...
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ah... then takumi... i close ah?Originally posted by M©+square:Nothing to talk about liao. -
Originally posted by sillyme:ah... then takumi... i close ah? Don't close la. Wait for Neon to come back. He might have something to say.
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wrote tis while waiting for someone...
From wat I see in the few threads, it seems tat all people talk about now is "grace", "grace" and more "grace". In fact they believe tat all the laws can be forgotten altogether and just dwell on god having grace or love etc. They don't care on the fact tat god said the laws r eternal or tat people who broke the laws r least favourable in his eyes and more likely to be sent to hell. In tat case, why do u become a believer ? Serious crimes tat was awarded the death penalty was forgotten isn't it ? Why should a petty thing such as not believing in god matters ?
I mean, he made men inperfect and fallible, he warns people to be wary of devil, he made a bible full of contradicitons and scientific errors, he show no sign, he hid, he made many other religions then why should he blame people for not believing blindly to christainity ? In fact in common terms now, not believing in christainity is not an error, crime, wrong or mistake. If u believe in islam or christainity, both of u r not any better off or worse off in terms of wrongful deed. If god is full of grace as some mentioned, then why penalise such a small deed heavily while neglecting all the other more serious crimes and sins ?
Just think logically and don't be biased. If god is full of grace and love, who according to some forgive almost any terrible crimes, why should he punish small things such as do not believe when there is ample and good reasons not to. -
1) The laws are not forgotten. It is just that GOD will not held these sins against us anymore.Originally posted by stupidissmart:wrote tis while waiting for someone...
From wat I see in the few threads, it seems tat all people talk about now is "grace", "grace" and more "grace". In fact they believe tat all the laws can be forgotten altogether and just dwell on god having grace or love etc. They don't care on the fact tat god said the laws r eternal or tat people who broke the laws r least favourable in his eyes and more likely to be sent to hell. In tat case, why do u become a believer ? Serious crimes tat was awarded the death penalty was forgotten isn't it ? Why should a petty thing such as not believing in god matters ?
2) The laws are eternal like what u said. Though we have GOD's grace doesn't mean u have a free licence to sin. U will still go to hell if u do evil.
3) It is not a petty thing by not believing in god. It is to be taken very seriously, becoz men are made to worship the Lord and to enjoy him.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I mean, he made men inperfect and fallible, he warns people to be wary of devil, he made a bible full of contradicitons and scientific errors, he show no sign, he hid, he made many other religions then why should he blame people for not believing blindly to christainity ? In fact in common terms now, not believing in christainity is not an error, crime, wrong or mistake. If u believe in islam or christainity, both of u r not any better off or worse off in terms of wrongful deed. If god is full of grace as some mentioned, then why penalise such a small deed heavily while neglecting all the other more serious crimes and sins ?
1) He made men perfect, but men chose their downfall.
Just think logically and don't be biased. If god is full of grace and love, who according to some forgive almost any terrible crimes, why should he punish small things such as do not believe when there is ample and good reasons not to.
2) He didn't make religions. Pple invented them.
3) If u believe in serious crimes and sins, obviously u believe in punishment (by someone). Unbelief is one of the sins, not less than any serious crimes and sins u mentioned. God is the one who define what is sin, and who to say which sin is greater than the other? U can't take a god who is full of grace and love for granted. Even in human relationships, it have to work both ways - giving and taking. U can't expect god to keep loving but ignore ur sins. -
The laws are not forgotten. It is just that GOD will not held these sins against us anymore
wat is the diff ? It is like saying murder is a crime but u will not be caught, punished or blacklisted for it. Isn't tat the same as allowing murder to take place ?The laws are eternal like what u said. Though we have GOD's grace doesn't mean u have a free licence to sin. U will still go to hell if u do evil.
U contradict the statement u write above. If it means tat all the laws have to be followed such as not eating prawns etc. Why r u not following them ?It is not a petty thing by not believing in god. It is to be taken very seriously, becoz men are made to worship the Lord and to enjoy him.
Tat is something really puzzling. We r made to be his worshippers ? If tat is so why hide ? If he appears without any concealment everyone including me will worship himHe made men perfect, but men chose their downfall
If men is perfect, he becomes god.He didn't make religions. Pple invented them
Including christainity ? If u think tat men invented the other religion, why not believe tat christainity is invented by men themselvesIf u believe in serious crimes and sins, obviously u believe in punishment (by someone). Unbelief is one of the sins, not less than any serious crimes and sins u mentioned. God is the one who define what is sin, and who to say which sin is greater than the other? U can't take a god who is full of grace and love for granted. Even in human relationships, it have to work both ways - giving and taking. U can't expect god to keep loving but ignore ur sins.
As said before, not believing is probably not a sin because frankly, there seems to be literally nothing wrong in not doing it. In fact as said before, god made the environment such tat not believing in christainity is perfectly understandable. Compared with sins such as murder or theft where according to some people, r forgiven as long as u believe, wat is the magnitude of problems for not believing ? If god is full of grace and love, he shouldn't be a being tat expects thing in return. I don't see tat as a love or grace. I see tat as an exchange by serving him as a slave instead. -
1. wat is the diff ? It is like saying murder is a crime but u will not be caught, punished or blacklisted for it. Isn't tat the same as allowing murder to take place ?
ans: U will definitely be caught, punished or blacklisted. The punishment may not be now, but u will never escape. God will judge u accordingly when ur life ends. I do not think someone who has done anything evil will not be troubled by his own conscience. This is already punishment when he is still alive.
2. U contradict the statement u write above. If it means tat all the laws have to be followed such as not eating prawns etc. Why r u not following them ?
ans: There is no contradiction. If u think eating prawns will make u worship the lord better, by all means. If not, it does not matter becoz "it is not the food that defiles u, but words that comes out from ur mouth."
3. Tat is something really puzzling. We r made to be his worshippers ? If tat is so why hide ? If he appears without any concealment everyone including me will worship him
ans: He will SIS. It is said in the bible all will know him and worship him.
4. If men is perfect, he becomes god.
ans: Yes. Perfect means sinless. But man can never be without sin coz all have fallen short of glory, so he can never be like god, who is without sin. There is a difference between 'become god' and 'be like god'. Men, who are GOD's creations, can never become gods.
5. Including christainity ? If u think tat men invented the other religion, why not believe tat christainity is invented by men themselves
ans: Becoz the bible is the true word of god, i say it by faith and conviction.
6. As said before, not believing is probably not a sin because frankly, there seems to be literally nothing wrong in not doing it. In fact as said before, god made the environment such tat not believing in christainity is perfectly understandable. Compared with sins such as murder or theft where according to some people, r forgiven as long as u believe, wat is the magnitude of problems for not believing ? If god is full of grace and love, he shouldn't be a being tat expects thing in return. I don't see tat as a love or grace. I see tat as an exchange by serving him as a slave instead.
ans: Chin Eng gave a very good comparison by using a parable of the owner and his workers. God set the rules, who are we to say he is fair/unfair? If u or someone u know make a serious crime/sin, would u not like GOD to forgive u too? Or do u prefer god to send u to hell immediately, giving u no chance of repentance.
In the bible, before GOD demands something, he gives more to the pple in abundance. If god wants u to be his slave, Christ wouldn't have humbled himself e.g wash his apostles' feet. He should have make the apostles wash his feet instead. This shows that Christ wants to serve, and not make slaves out of men.
It is sad that u see it as an exchange. GOD loves, and just want u to love him, regardless of ur level of faith. GOD is faithful, even when u reject him. GOD always open his arms to u, u r the one who is running away. Hope u one day see that he loves u.
Cheers!!! -
U will definitely be caught, punished or blacklisted. The punishment may not be now, but u will never escape. God will judge u accordingly when ur life ends. I do not think someone who has done anything evil will not be troubled by his own conscience. This is already punishment when he is still alive.
Then why aren't u following the OT laws now ? Or r u going to tell me u follow them ?There is no contradiction. If u think eating prawns will make u worship the lord better, by all means. If not, it does not matter becoz "it is not the food that defiles u, but words that comes out from ur mouth."
Sounds silly but your god says it is a sin. If u obey him then u should folow them by the word. If the food do not defile u as u say, then why does god even mention about prawn eating ? He mention it for fun ?He will SIS. It is said in the bible all will know him and worship him.
It is said in the bible tat bats r bird and rabbit chew the cud. If we talk about the present, and probably for these past 2000 years. There is no sign of god. he is really hidingPerfect means sin-less. Man can never be without sin coz all have fallen short of glory.
I check the dictionary and perfect means no room for further improvement, withotu any flaws or defect. If men is without flaws and defect, he wouldn't be guilible and eat a fruitBecoz the bible is the true word of god, i say it by faith and conviction
says who ? If talking about faith, muslim and buddhist have faith in their scripture and indirectly claim the bible is not true. As said before, faith is blind and leads to wrong conclusions. Why do u think your faith is right ?Chin Eng gave a very good comparison by using a parable of the owner and his workers. God set the rules, who are we to say he is fair/unfair? If u or someone u know make a serious crime/sin, would u not like GOD to forgive u too? Or do u prefer god to send u to hell immediately, giving u no chance of repentance.
So u agree tat in your mind and probably most people mind, god do perform unreasonable deeds so much so tat u can't explain them. Talking about forgiving people sin, why aren't god forgiving a small deed such as not believign in him and send them to hell without a chance of repentance ?It is sad that u see it as an exchange. GOD loves, and just want u to love him, regardless of ur level of faith. GOD is faithful, even when u reject him. GOD always open his arms to u, u r the one who is running away. Hope u one day see that he loves u.
frankly I am puzzled tat u keep mentioning god loves u etc etc etc when there really isn't anything u can see tat shows people of his love. U r still avoiding the question why does god, who forgives many terrible sins yet do nto forgive the very small problem of not believing in him. Talk about running away an opening his arsm, he probably should show himself and 100% convince people tat he exists. Why hide ?
Cheers!!! -
1. Then why aren't u following the OT laws now ? Or r u going to tell me u follow them ?
Ans: I am following, though not perfect, and I can never be perfect.
My salvation is not given by how perfect i can follow god's laws, but my faith in Christ.
2. Sounds silly but your god says it is a sin. If u obey him then u should folow them by the word. If the food do not defile u as u say, then why does god even mention about prawn eating ? He mention it for fun ?
Ans: Jesus also says: “Do not say anything I have made is unclean.” If God has say so, who are u to say it is a sin?
The law is a guideline for us to follow. Grace is the final solution.
Following godÂ’s laws should never be based on fear/legalism, it should be from oneÂ’s heart. He wants u to obey him out of love, not out of fear.
3. It is said in the bible tat bats r bird and rabbit chew the cud. If we talk about the present, and probably for these past 2000 years. There is no sign of god. he is really hiding
Ans: You will see him. Probably not within your life time, but u will.
4. check the dictionary and perfect means no room for further improvement, withotu any flaws or defect. If men is without flaws and defect, he wouldn't be guilible and eat a fruit
Ans: Men is not stupid and gullible when he ate the fruit. He ate it becoz he is tempted and doubted god.
5. says who ? If talking about faith, muslim and buddhist have faith in their scripture and indirectly claim the bible is not true. As said before, faith is blind and leads to wrong conclusions. Why do u think your faith is right ?
Ans: I say it again: I say it right out of my faith and conviction, and my personal experiences with god. U can also say urs is right, base on your own conviction.
6. So u agree tat in your mind and probably most people mind, god do perform unreasonable deeds so much so tat u can't explain them. Talking about forgiving people sin, why aren't god forgiving a small deed such as not believign in him and send them to hell without a chance of repentance ?
Ans: He is forgiving. If not, he wouldnÂ’t have given us so many chances to believe in him.
7. frankly I am puzzled tat u keep mentioning god loves u etc etc etc when there really isn't anything u can see tat shows people of his love. U r still avoiding the question why does god, who forgives many terrible sins yet do nto forgive the very small problem of not believing in him. Talk about running away an opening his arsm, he probably should show himself and 100% convince people tat he exists. Why hide ?
Ans: It is small to u but not small to GOD. He is not hiding. Pray, ask him and he will reveal his ways to u. If u never do that, u will never be convinced. -
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I am following, though not perfect, and I can never be perfect.
The OT tell u to kill people who r not virgins on their marriage day. Do u follow tat ? OT tell u not to eat any seafood at do nto have fins, r u following tat ? OT tell u to kill people who preach of other gods, r u doing tat ? It is not about perfection, it is the laws r impossible to followJesus also says: “Do not say anything I have made is unclean.” If God has say so, who are u to say it is a sin?
Then follow the OT laws and not eat prawns, mussles, oystel, lobster, crabs, pigs etc. God say they r sins, who r u to say they r not ? The law is laws. If u say they r just guidelines and can be forgotten by grace, then u r really just telling people not to follow the OT laws If one follow the law out of love, then why does god threathen people by keep claiming those who do not follow go to hell ? He himself is employing fear tactics
The law is a guideline for us to follow. Grace is the final solution.
Following godÂ’s laws should never be based on fear/legalism, it should be from oneÂ’s heart. He wants u to obey him out of love, not out of fear.You will see him. Probably not within your life time, but u will
U r not answering the question. IS HE HIDING OR NOT HIDING IN THE PRESENT AND THE PAST 2000 YEARS. I am explicitly saying tis time period only.Men is not stupid and gullible when he ate the fruit. He ate it becoz he is tempted and doubted god
If he doubt god, then god doesn't make him perfect as wat u claim. He is designed to eat the fruit after a specific timeI say it again: I say it right out of my faith and conviction, and my personal experiences with god
In short, u r saying u can't give a real answer to why is the bible true, u can only say u believe it to be true. Tat means u can be wrong, and IMO very likely to be so. I mean some crazy people believe he is superman or wonder woman. Just because u believe in it doesn't make it a factHe is forgiving. If not, he wouldnÂ’t have given us so many chances to believe in him
How much chances do u think he has given to lets say a born muslim living in a predominantly muslim society ? I don't really not hm not giving good reasons to believe in him yet expect us to do so as forgiving.It is small to u but not small to GOD. He is not hiding. Pray, ask him and he will reveal his ways to u. If u never do that, u will never be convinced
I think it should work the other way. Come out before I believe he is true. Otherwise I will find myself terible busy having to pray to muslim god, buddhist god, cult god, taoist god or hindu god to see who answer first -
Ans: GODÂ’s commandments is summarized into two: Love the LORD ur god and love ur neighbour. No need to follow so many laws which u canÂ’t keep perfectly, if u can follow this two already very good.
Law is indeed just a guideline. Like what SgMacross said, it is GODÂ’s grace that we can even keep some of the laws. One indeed follow the law out of love, but if one choose to deliberately ignore GODÂ’s commands, then GOD will judge him and he will have to bear with his own consequences.
Even in human law, it is never an excuse for us to not know the law. Try arguing with the judge in court and u will know it is futile. -
I'm not a Sai BaBa , shastra or Tantras believer, i'm a person who have been brought about reading bible to understand spirituality.
I dont claim to understand about religon, as i strongly believe in the existance of God and Spirituality.
Although one thing i'm so not certain, is most "learned" people from religons quickly find faults in others beliefs which is not in the Commandmant of Christ or any other religon's teaching.
I wonder is loving your enemies "Making enemies" or loving your enemies
"Making friends of them". I find this very spiritually disturbing to see arguments based on the words people speak, not the actions people lived out to be. -
GODÂ’s commandments is summarized into two: Love the LORD ur god and love ur neighbour. No need to follow so many laws which u canÂ’t keep perfectly, if u can follow this two already very good.
God doesn't say tat when he made the laws. He said tat all those who do not follow go to hell. So he change his mind from time to time ?
Law is indeed just a guideline. Like what SgMacross said, it is GODÂ’s grace that we can even keep some of the laws. One indeed follow the law out of love, but if one choose to deliberately ignore GODÂ’s commands, then GOD will judge him and he will have to bear with his own consequences.
Even in human law, it is never an excuse for us to not know the law. Try arguing with the judge in court and u will know it is futile.
If u say tat the law is only a guideline tat nobody follows even christians, then u r just simply saying men shouldn't follow the old laws and he lied about people going to hell over it etc. Talking about human laws, how much do u know about the old laws ? U don't even know them properly and u literally break them almost every day. How r u gonna answer to god in his court in judgement day ?