Anton LaVey
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didn't know girls are not allowed to know about or like cars and guns. whats this? dinosaur era sexism?Originally posted by Icemoon:if heng@ is a girl .. then is definitely a power-girl.
you see "her" posts in the automobile and military forums .. almost like a charlie angel to me .. haha
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Didn't heng@ once talk about a spooky experience @ Stagmont Camp? What was 'it' doing at Stagmont Camp if not undergoing NS?
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haha. fyi i was NCC west, and during our NCC specialist course, we were required to walk from jalan bathera (dunno how to spell) to stagmont for a couple of "3S" lecturesOriginally posted by iveco:Didn't heng@ once talk about a spooky experience @ Stagmont Camp? What was 'it' doing at Stagmont Camp if not undergoing NS?
either way, en huai was my ex-schoolmate. that is the only relation i have with him. i've never served NS with him b4 -
Unless I'm mistaken, your spooky experience happened in 2003. You were still in sec school back then? How old are you?Originally posted by HENG@:haha. fyi i was NCC west, and during our NCC specialist course, we were required to walk from jalan bathera (dunno how to spell) to stagmont for a couple of "3S" lectures -
iveco .. how old was the 2nd sgt when he died?Originally posted by iveco:Unless I'm mistaken, your spooky experience happened in 2001. You were still in sec school back then? How old are you?
they should be the same age? -
never said that hor .. hey the 'charlie angel' part was a compliment.Originally posted by HENG@:didn't know girls are not allowed to know about or like cars and guns. whats this? dinosaur era sexism? -
I agree with para 1.Originally posted by dragg:a good christian follows the word of GOD and let people see the GOD in him.
most christians choose to think that they have received salvation by accepting christ. if it is that simple we will all be in heaven.
professing your believe in GOD alone dont lead to salvation.
For para 2/3, it is subjective. If a Christian do not believe he is under grace, then he will agree with u. If u still think u will be judged by what u do (which u can never reach perfection), then to each his own.
It is not wat u do, but wat GOD has freely given to u that assured ur salvation.
It is sad that Christians, even for those long in the faith and walk closely with GOD, still see themselves living under legalism/morality instead of GOD's grace. If one do not believe that his salvation is assured by faith thru Christ alone, then what Christ has done on the cross has been taken in vain.
The Church is not perfect, but if one is going to let the failures of men affect his decision concerning his own salvation, I can say unfortunately he has been misled. As Christians, our role is to preach and to plant the seed. The rest is up to GOD and the person. We cannot be blame for that particular individual losing his salvation, after all it is a relationship between GOD and himself which nobody can decide for him/her.
I reflected upon my own actions and I truely regretted my outburst of anger. It was most unchrist-like. I am sorry to Dragg and Heng@ for turning nasty and I apologize without any reservations. -
Life is full of Challenges isn't it ?
Such God's Grace to have faith , Its all part of growth to be involved in Bickering . Hope everybody can find growth in doing so, because many others have seen Atheism to get out of bickering.
It is much better to let people see the grace of God in you than provoking people to challenge your faith. -
I agree with u entirely.Originally posted by OH-FF:Life is full of Challenges isn't it ?
Such God's Grace to have faith , Its all part of growth to be involved in Bickering . Hope everybody can find growth in doing so, because many others have seen Atheism to get out of bickering.
It is much better to let people see the grace of God in you than provoking people to challenge your faith.
I hope they can see atheism is not the solution. To me, atheism may be the last nail for the coffin. -
Which is why we also shouldn't challenge why other's have chosen their Faiths ,
In doing so , we have not shown the grace , but by living in grace , we grow ourselves in the word. And the word can be seen in us, so that we spread the word kindly.
We're not the "Son of Man" who can command followers , we're just mortals who seek love and grace from god constantly. -
if one comes into a Christian forum, I presume he/she want to listen, not to challenge the faith...unfortunately this is not always the case...Originally posted by OH-FF:Which is why we also shouldn't challenge why other's have chosen their Faiths ,
In doing so , we have not shown the grace , but by living in grace , we grow ourselves in the word. And the word can be seen in us, so that we spread the word kindly.
We're not the "Son of Man" who can command followers , we're just mortals who seek love and grace from god constantly.
I believe love and grace from god is right here with us, so stop seeking, just claim it....Christ's parables e.g. the prodigal son told us GOD's love is unconidtional and always there...
We only need to go back to GOD. He always held out his open arms to us, it is us who are running away from him.
I would like to add on: we reciprocate GOD's love becoz we are first loved by him....amen -
Sometimes we're reminded to "Remove the planks from our eye" before we "point out the thorn in other people".
I dont want to go thru the cycles of quoting from the book , becoz it's very difficult to live very strictly , then again its all part of growth. Until we grow from the Grace and the Word .
I'm sure our love for God will be the same as how we love ourselves. For all spirits are one. We're commanded to love our enemies. Do you? -
One can try, but I am sure we can never remove every single plank from our eyes. We are not perfect like Christ, but I do agree with u that we must reflect upon ourselves constantly, only then we can be better persons.Originally posted by OH-FF:Sometimes we're reminded to "Remove the planks from our eye" before we "point out the thorn in other people".
I dont want to go thru the cycles of quoting from the book , becoz it's very difficult to live very strictly , then again its all part of growth. Until we grow from the Grace and the Word .
I'm sure our love for God will be the same as how we love ourselves. For all spirits are one. We're commanded to love our enemies. Do you?
Thank u for agreeing with me also that it is difficult to live very strictly, which I believe is not GOD's intention for us. GOD's intention is for us to live under grace, not legalism/morality.
We love GOD becoz he first loves us; We love ourselves becoz we know that GOD has forgiven us. If we are constantly living under the shadows of law and sin, we can never be truely free.
I agree with u that GOD has commanded to love our enemies, but what I do not understand is the statement:all spirits are one. That, I may not agree with u, if ur message is "All paths lead to one". -
And the Word has always been strict because he knows we're bound to be deviant, and hopefully we're still attached while deviant.Originally posted by laoda99:One can try, but I am sure we can never remove every single plank from our eyes. We are not perfect like Christ, but I do agree with u that we must reflect upon ourselves constantly.
Thank u for agreeing with me also that it is difficult to live very strictly, which I believe is not GOD's intention for us also.
We love GOD becoz he first loves us; We love ourselves becoz we know that GOD has forgiven us. If we are constantly living under the shadows of sin, we can never be truely free.
I agree with u that GOD has commanded to love our enemies, but what I do not understand is what u mean by all spirits are one. That, I may not agree with u, if ur message is "All Paths lead to one".
No ... just plainly all spirits are one . We're all from the same source and we deserve love from the same source. Its very difficult to interpret what's not humanly possible , until you are filled with the spirit then you can understand what it truly means by loving your enemies. -
If u are saying we are all GOD's children and thus should love each other, I agree with u with no reservations.Originally posted by OH-FF:No ... just plainly all spirits are one . We're all from the same source and we deserve love from the same source. Its very difficult to interpret what's not humanly possible , until you are filled with the spirit then you can understand what it truly means by loving your enemies.
what my opinion is: GOD gives us his grace thru Christ, not becoz we deserve it, but becoz he loves us. This unconditional love is not found in other faiths whom believed u must earn it. The muslims/Jews earn it by following the law. The Buddhists earn enlightenment by perfecting themselves. The taoists earn their divinity by being one with nature. But Christians earn it thru nothing.
Grace can never be earned. -
Do you believe after regeneration, you will have to work onto salvation proving?Originally posted by laoda99:I agree with para 1.
For para 2/3, it is subjective. If a Christian do not believe he is under grace, then he will agree with u. If u still think u will be judged by what u do (which u can never reach perfection), then to each his own. [/quote]
A christian should have recieved salvation thru the knowledge of God's love and grace[spoken or unspoken]. Recieving Christ is the decision of recieving grace from God.
We can never reach perfection in the first place. A Christian should know that they live under grace, otherwise there could only be a few possiblity.
1) They recieve salvation by a wrong condition of the heart.
2) The preacher have presented the wrong message(judgement of God, Hell, afterlife suffering)
3) The salvation recieved is by FEAR, not grace/love.
4) They do not understand the depth of Grace.
5) Emotional salvation
6) Not elected
It could be a different perspective between a christianlife which is bound - judgement centered and a life which is living under the knowledge of judgement.
It bears different results.[b]It is not wat u do, but wat GOD has freely given to u that assured ur salvation.
What comes before salvation and after is a different story, it all depends to individual to how he/she work onto proving salvation and grace is indeed present in his/her life.It is sad that Christians, even for those long in the faith and walk closely with GOD, still see themselves living under legalism/morality instead of GOD's grace.
Legalism, i interprete as codes of conduct in religion(christianity)
Eg. A Christian should dress appropriately and modestly during a service. Or a Christian should not misbehave in the public.
Morality, eg. A christian will not get involved with drugs, alcohol and fornication acts.
1) These terms are subjective and sensitive. It is good for you to define your stand.
2) If Christians were to live in God's grace instead of the said terms above. Will they have the license to live a life of careless conduct?
3) If grace is prevailing in Church. Then why the homosexual issue? Isn't it under legalism?If one do not believe that his salvation is assured by faith thru Christ alone, then what Christ has done on the cross has been taken in vain.
The Church is not perfect, but if one is going to let the failures of men affect his decision concerning his own salvation, I can say unfortunately he has been misled. A man could be misled by any other way concerning salvation. Since man is not perfect as well.
Anyway, misled by whom/what? One could not possiblity misled himself. It has to come under certain influence.As Christians, our role is to preach and to plant the seed. The rest is up to GOD and the person.
Simple truth, hard to swallow -
I personally believe that as christians, the very first subject is the Greatest Commandment and second to it. Knowledge of God's love will propel a christian to reach out to those lost sheep.
Not the other way round.
Understand your primary role on earth first. Then go to the second which is to be the salt and light.We cannot be blame for that particular individual losing his salvation, after all it is a relationship between GOD and himself which nobody can decide for him/her.
Indeed. You can only intercede for these people, showing them love of God, ...not preach to them.
I reflected upon my own actions and I truely regretted my outburst of anger. It was most unchrist-like. I am sorry to Dragg and Heng@ for turning nasty and I apologize without any reservations.
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Indeed indeed indeed!Originally posted by OH-FF:until you are filled with the spirit then you can understand what it truly means by loving your enemies.
The is the crux!
Cheers -
Some of us thinks we can help a lot of people by donating a lot of money? does this means we're trying to earn favor from Grace? Of coz not, it is not for us to judge what others have faith in.Originally posted by laoda99:If u are saying we are all GOD's children and thus should love each other, I agree with u with no reservations.
what my opinion is: GOD gives us his grace thru Christ, not becoz we deserve it, but becoz he loves us. This unconditional love is not found in other faiths whom believed u must earn it. The fact is, it can never be earned.
And most faiths have similar interpretations , if not used for political agendas or for economic agendas. Lets say if they're the Word of Man , what becomes our churches? -
[quoted by mcsquare]
1) What comes before salvation and after is a different story, it all depends to individual to how he/she work onto proving salvation and grace is indeed present in his/her life.
2) Legalism, i interprete as codes of conduct in religion(christianity)
A) These terms are subjective and sensitive. It is good for you to define your stand.
B) If Christians were to live in God's grace instead of the said terms above. Will they have the license to live a life of careless conduct?
C) If grace is prevailing in Church. Then why the homosexual issue? Isn't it under legalism?
3) Do you believe after regeneration, you will have to work onto salvation proving?
4) Anyway, misled by whom/what? One could not possiblity misled himself. It has to come under certain influence.
5) Simple truth, hard to swallow - I personally believe that as christians, the very first subject is the Greatest Commandment and second to it. Knowledge of God's love will propel a christian to reach out to those lost sheep. Not the other way round. Understand your primary role on earth first. Then go to the second which is to be the salt and light.[/quoted]
1) GOD works thru the believer to show his grace to others. The individual can never prove all these on his own without the power of GOD.
2) A) No. There is no excuse to live a life of careless conduct. But we know that when sin is abound, grace is much more abound.
B) Grace is prevailing in Church, no matter how big/small it is. Look at the works done by the missions, or a simple deed done by a Christian bro/sis which shows his/her grace to others. Only those who has truly received grace are able to show grace to others. If u cannot see this, then it is truly regrettable.
Homosexual issue is regrettable. These individuals are as much living under grace like everyone of us. If not, GOD would have punished them like in the olden times. GOD no longer held men's sins against us, including the sin of homosexuality.
However, this goes back to ur question: do pple have the license to live a life of careless conduct? This applies to everyone, including homosexuals.
3) Refer back to 1.
4) Misled by others and himself. It is possible if one choose to ignore the positive aspects of the faith and concentrate on being negative.
5) I agree with u entirely. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
1) So a Christian can still onto proving salvation.
MC:
1) What comes before salvation and after is a different story, it all depends to individual to how he/she work onto proving salvation and grace is indeed present in his/her life.
2) Legalism, i interprete as codes of conduct in religion(christianity)
A) These terms are subjective and sensitive. It is good for you to define your stand.
B) If Christians were to live in God's grace instead of the said terms above. Will they have the license to live a life of careless conduct?
C) If grace is prevailing in Church. Then why the homosexual issue? Isn't it under legalism?
3) Do you believe after regeneration, you will have to work onto salvation proving?
4) Anyway, misled by whom/what? One could not possiblity misled himself. It has to come under certain influence.
5) Simple truth, hard to swallow - I personally believe that as christians, the very first subject is the Greatest Commandment and second to it. Knowledge of God's love will propel a christian to reach out to those lost sheep. Not the other way round. Understand your primary role on earth first. Then go to the second which is to be the salt and light.[/quoted]
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1) GOD works thru the believer to show his grace to others. The individual can never prove all these on his own without the power of GOD.
2) A) No. There is no excuse to live a life of careless conduct. But we know that when sin is abound, grace is much more abound.
B) Grace is prevailing in Church, no matter how big/small it is. Look at the works done by the missions, or a simple deed done by a Christian bro/sis which shows his/her grace to others. Only those who has truly received grace are able to show grace to others. If u cannot see this, then it is truly regrettable.
Homosexual issue is regrettable. These individuals are as much living under grace as everyone of us. If not, GOD would have punished them like in the olden times.
3) Refer back to 1.
4) Misled by others and himself. It is possible if one choose to ignore the positive aspects of the faith and concentrate on being negative.
5) I agree with u entirely.
[/b]
Your claim is only when power of God is present in the person's life.
That is why, it is not God who will prove his/her salvation. He will have to prove his/her own salvation(together with Holy Spirit who resides within each believer, Ideally)
2a) You came from NCC bkground am i right? Can you eleborate on your interpretation of 'when sin is abound, grace is much more abound.'?
2b) Then you're talking about minority of Christians who have grace.
It is regrettable that you choose to see the micro value than the big picture.
Homosexual issue - God would have destroyed every single being. Or we would have been killed by Isrealites.
Talking about olden times. We could discuss this till the cows come home.
3) Refer to 1
4) It is possible for a person to have a sound mind. Viewing both postive and negetive, thru make a decision out of it.
If one is 'It is possible if one choose to ignore the positive aspects of the faith and concentrate on being negative.' He is not misled, he is deluded.
Misled is a strong word. One should not, cannot misled himself - it has got to be a external source.
Cheers -
Disbelieve is actually to ignore the existance of Holy Spirit which is already with you. Which is why there is a need for your "logic" to prove that it exists. I've already said it's not something that you can take and show people.Originally posted by M©+square:1) So a Christian can still onto proving salvation.
Your claim is only when power of God is present in the person's life.
That is why, it is not God who will prove his/her salvation. He will have to prove his/her own salvation(together with Holy Spirit who resides within each believer, Ideally)
But having Faith and Grace, your Holy Spirit shines within you thus accepting all other spirits . Who although in this body different, we're all the same with God's love. -
2a) I was from NCC. I am now a Presbyterian. I left NCC becoz there are issues which I cannot agree with. But, what I can agree with NCC is their message on Grace. My intepretation I already gave u in the thread about Homosexuality.Originally posted by M©+square:2a) You came from NCC bkground am i right? Can you eleborate on your interpretation of 'when sin is abound, grace is much more abound.'?
2b) Then you're talking about minority of Christians who have grace.
It is regrettable that you choose to see the micro value than the big picture.
Homosexual issue - God would have destroyed every single being. Or we would have been killed by Isrealites.
Talking about olden times. We could discuss this till the cows come home.
4) It is possible for a person to have a sound mind. Viewing both postive and negetive, thru make a decision out of it.
If one is 'It is possible if one choose to ignore the positive aspects of the faith and concentrate on being negative.' He is not misled, he is deluded.
Misled is a strong word. One should not, cannot misled himself - it has got to be a external source.
b) Similiarly, it is regrettable that u cannot see grace prevailed, regardless of how small it is. Your big pic is not my big pic. But I respect ur stand.
Yeah..the cows need to sleep...we will not discuss on that
4) Then i will use the word u prefer...deluded..thanks for pointing out the mistake. -
What i believe: GOD works thru individuals to show his grace, even non-christians. But my stand is clear: Salvation by faith thru Christ alone, not all paths lead to one.Originally posted by OH-FF:Disbelieve is actually to ignore the existance of Holy Spirit which is already with you. Which is why there is a need for your "logic" to prove that it exists. I've already said it's not something that you can take and show people.
But having Faith and Grace, your Holy Spirit shines within you thus accepting all other spirits . Who although in this body different, we're all the same with God's love.
There is nothing we can do to save ourselves/reach perfection, but to accept GOD's grace thru Christ. -
So long as you have faith and grace , non shall be your enemy unless you made them so.Originally posted by laoda99:What i believe: GOD works thru individuals to show his grace, even non-christians. But my stand is clear: Salvation by faith thru Christ alone, not all paths lead to one. -
i agree with u totally, thanks for taking time to reply to me...u have been most patient and kind....Originally posted by OH-FF:So long as you have faith and grace , non shall be your enemy unless you made them so.