Anton LaVey
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dragg,Originally posted by dragg:but GOD is indeed cruel.
the old testament shows how often He kills.
u have been a christian b4, u should know why he kills = becoz of sin...heng@ is right when he said all of us are screwed....
which is why we need to have Christ, if not all of us will never be spared becoz of our sins...only Christ can make us righteous in GOD's eyes again... -
1 word again: arrogance. if u believe everyone is responsible for their own choices, then no need to keep flaunting that your religion is the only true path.Originally posted by laoda99:pple can believe in what they want, like dragg says...even wicca...u can treat it like a religion....u can even dabble in the occult/witchcraft..
but at the end of the road...we are all responsible for our own choices...so one shld never say "GOD is cruel"...becoz all of us have choices... -
of course He has His reasons.Originally posted by laoda99:dragg,
u have been a christian b4, u should know why he kills = becoz of sin...
which is why we need to have Christ, if not all of us will never be spared becoz of our sins...only Christ can make us righteous in GOD's eyes again...
He has reasons for everything. we are suppose to understand. we arent even suppose to argue.
after all He has the right to take back what He gives. -
i find this overdependence on Christ disturbing. Its almost like u're absolving yourself of any responsibility after choosing to be christian.Originally posted by laoda99:dragg,
u have been a christian b4, u should know why he kills = becoz of sin...
which is why we need to have Christ, if not all of us will never be spared becoz of our sins...only Christ can make us righteous in GOD's eyes again... -
nobody is flaunting...already said u believe what u want to believe....only u r using the word 'arrogance' now......so who is really arrogant? if having no faith is what is true to u, then u shld continue....nobody's asking u to convert....Originally posted by HENG@:1 word again: arrogance. if u believe everyone is responsible for their own choices, then no need to keep flaunting that your religion is the only true path. -
i find men's overdependence on themselves is disturbing.....if u think u can control ur own destiny...go ahead....we have different views...Originally posted by HENG@:i find this overdependence on Christ disturbing. Its almost like u're absolving yourself of any responsibility after choosing to be christian. -
you are of course. everytime we keep talking about all religion believe that they are right, u come out n talk about needing christ and only christianity having christ, and that when the rest goes to hell, its because they didn't choose christianity and thus are responsible for their own demise. u're still indirectly flaunting the "one and only trueness" of christianity in our faces. if that is not arrogance, i don't know what isOriginally posted by laoda99:nobody is flaunting...already said u believe what u want to believe....only u r using the word 'arrogance' now......so who is really arrogant? -
At least I have my stand. U dun even have a faith...only believe in urself....if that's not arrogance...i dun know what it is...Originally posted by HENG@:you are of course. everytime we keep talking about all religion believe that they are right, u come out n talk about needing christ and only christianity having christ, and that when the rest goes to hell, its because they didn't choose christianity and thus are responsible for their own demise. u're still indirectly flaunting the "one and only trueness" of christianity in our faces. if that is not arrogance, i don't know what is
nobody is asking u to convert....if u think it is arrogant and wrong, dun convert...tat's all... -
ah but thats where u are wrong AGAIN. my view is that you have a large part to play. God rewards not those who do not put in any effort. It is not overdependence on themselves. It is acknowledging the responsibility that God has given us and not throwing all responsibility onto God and christ themselves. It seems like christians are saying as long as i have christ i can ignore the resonsibility god has placed on the individual.Originally posted by laoda99:i find men's overdependence on themselves is disturbing.....if u think u can control ur own destiny...go ahead....we have different views...
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u r judging again while others not judge u....arrogance...wrong...what next...did i tell u that u r wrong?Originally posted by HENG@:ah but thats where u are wrong AGAIN. my view is that you have a large part to play. God rewards not those who do not put in any effort. It is not overdependence on themselves. It is acknowledging the responsibility that God has given us and not throwing all responsibility onto God and christ themselves. It seems like christians are saying as long as i have christ i can ignore the resonsibility god has placed on the individual.
now u sound like u have a faith....let's talk abt effort....men do need to put in effort...but the fruits of goodness is becoz of belief in Christ...not becoz u do good to win merit!!!!
u need personal effort to know him no doubt....but...since u already decided it is wrong....then probably u won't...becoz to u....anything u do not believe/understand is ARROGANT/WRONG. -
and you're wrong again! u just refuse to understand. i do have a faith. that faith is a believe in God. your faith is in christianity. my faith is in God. Thats what I believe in. not myself, but God. so yes, your accusation that i am arrogant doesn't stand. You believe in a HUMAN belief of what they THINK is a belief in God, and u flaunt it in people's faces relentlessly. Yes u have a stand, so what? That is still arrogance. Adolf Hitler had a stand too. Doesn't mean he wasn't arrogant.Originally posted by laoda99:At least I have my stand. U dun even have a faith...only believe in urself....if that's not arrogance...i dun know what it is...
nobody is asking u to convert....if u think it is wrong, dun convert...tat's all... -
now u say u believe in god while just now u say u have no faith...u dun even have a stand....so there is no ground for discussionOriginally posted by HENG@:it is true. that is why i don't subscribe to any faith.
think u better decide b4 u post next....u can always fit poison to urself by saying others are arrogant/wrong....and u can believe in it...what u want to believe is up to u.... -
you keep misunderstanding. when i say u are wrong, i say u are wrong about what i think and say. i say u are wrong in your interpretation of what my words are. i feel im very qualified to judge if u have gotten my meanings do i not? now tell me if that is arrogance. once again, i did not say it is wrong that one requires personal efforts to know him. indeed i would appreciate it if u would stop putting words into my mouth. also, i say one does good because good should be done, at no point in anytime have i said good is done for merit. if u keep misunderstanding what i say, its unfair then that u judge me in any way at all.Originally posted by laoda99:u r judging again while others not judge u....arrogance...wrong...what next...did i tell u that u r wrong?
now u sound like u have a faith....let's talk abt effort....men do need to put in effort...but the fruits of goodness is becoz of belief in Christ...not becoz u do good to win merit!!!!
u need personal effort to know him no doubt....but...since u already decided it is wrong....then probably u won't...becoz to u....anything u do not believe/understand is ARROGANT/WRONG. -
getting all holier than thou n righteous are u? picking play on words now? when i say i don't subscribe to any faith, that means i don't subscribe to any human faith. my only faith is that there IS a god. having no faith aka religion is not the same as not believing in God. if u really choose not to understand the proper meanings behind it, then u can say im poisoning myself all u want. i don't believe in the islam or judaism faith, but why am i not saying they are arrogant? you christians only have yourselves to examine why others say that of uOriginally posted by laoda99:now u say u believe in god while just now u say u have no faith...u dun even have a stand....so there is no ground for discussion
think u better decide b4 u post next....u can always fit poison to urself by saying others are arrogant/wrong....and u can believe in it...what u want to believe is up to u.... -
hmmm...so u mean i misunderstand u and strangely....now u appear to be the victim of unfair judgement by me...since when did i say your faith (if u have a faith in the first place) is wrong? I already said u are free to believe what u want to believe...Originally posted by HENG@:you keep misunderstanding. when i say u are wrong, i say u are wrong about what i think and say. i say u are wrong in your interpretation of what my words are. i feel im very qualified to judge if u have gotten my meanings do i not? now tell me if that is arrogance. once again, i did not say it is wrong that one requires personal efforts to know him. indeed i would appreciate it if u would stop putting words into my mouth. also, i say one does good because good should be done, at no point in anytime have i said good is done for merit. if u keep misunderstanding what i say, its unfair then that u judge me in any way at all.
b4 u say i put words in ur mouth, do consider what u have said to make others misunderstood u. if u think it is unfair that i misunderstood u, on your part it is only fair for u to stop judging others as arrogant.
u r free to believe in ur own beliefs...regardless of what it is...u are even free to ignore what I have wrote here abt Christ, if u dun believe....but pls do not say others are arrogant when their beliefs are different from u... -
i will examine myself...hope u examine urs too....bash pple's faith not...and nobody will bash urs (if u have one)....i have had enuff of pple here bashing Christianity, even though they may not have even touched a bible b4...Originally posted by HENG@:getting all holier than thou n righteous are u? picking play on words now? when i say i don't subscribe to any faith, that means i don't subscribe to any human faith. my only faith is that there IS a god. having no faith aka religion is not the same as not believing in God. if u really choose not to understand the proper meanings behind it, then u can say im poisoning myself all u want. i don't believe in the islam or judaism faith, but why am i not saying they are arrogant? you christians only have yourselves to examine why others say that of u
b4 i become a believer, i have pple telling me to go to hell....tat's why i have reasons to be angry with them....
but now...i did not even say u are going to anywhere...why are u worked up? -
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when u say things like "most important=faith in the right thing... " u're clearly indirectly stating that Christanity is the one and only way n everyone is going to hell. doesn't matter if u actually say it directly or not, just mentioning something like that already smacks of arrogance.Originally posted by laoda99:i will examine myself...hope u examine urs too....bash pple's faith not...and nobody will bash u....
b4 i become a believer, i have pple telling me to go to hell....tat's why i am angry..
but now...i did not even say u are going to anywhere...why are u worked up?
2ndly, when i said you are wrong in understand what i said, u took it as me making a judgement on your religion being wrong and saying that i am making judgements. i didn't say that u said my faith is wrong. indeed i said that u were wrong in saying that i didn't have a faith. i do have a faith, but not one born of humans. that was where u misunderstood.
and finally perhaps its not about whether any faith is being bashed or not. its about christians examining why they are facing a backlash now. have they strayed so far from true believe in God and his son that now people perceive them as hypocrites? -
that statement wasn't even meant for u...u can choose not to read it anytime....and did i say what the right thing is? it can be what u believe in...think u r the sensitive person here, not me...Originally posted by HENG@:when u say things like "most important=faith in the right thing... " u're clearly indirectly stating that Christanity is the one and only way n everyone is going to hell. doesn't matter if u actually say it directly or not, just mentioning something like that already smacks of arrogance.
2ndly, when i said you are wrong in understand what i said, u took it as me making a judgement on your religion being wrong and saying that i am making judgements. i didn't say that u said my faith is wrong. indeed i said that u were wrong in saying that i didn't have a faith. i do have a faith, but not one born of humans. that was where u misunderstood.
and finally perhaps its not about whether any faith is being bashed or not. its about christians examining why they are facing a backlash now. have they strayed so far from true believe in God and his son that now people perceive them as hypocrites?
everyone are hypocrites...dun tell me u have not been hypocritical b4?
Christians are no different from u....we breath the same air, eat the same food, watch the same tv.....only u r portraying christians as a different breed....so who's discriminating who? just becoz of some Pope XXXXXVVVVIII started the crusades, the inquisitions, does that give u every right to say all Christianity/Christians are cruel? U generalize too much also...and during the inquisition, it is christians who are been burned as heretics...are u now fighting the christian cause for the christians? -
Hey , Cool the bickering , non of us can say we've been Nice people since we're born , anybody learn from the pictures i posted ?
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if a statement is posted in a public forum, even if its not intended to be meant for me, it can be read by all and thus intended to be for everyone. As such, if i find it arrogant, do I not have the right to say so? While u may not be representative of your religion, your statement is a similar one so often utter by christians while trying to convert others.Originally posted by laoda99:that statement wasn't even meant for u...u can choose not to read it anytime....think u r the sensitive person here, not me...
everyone are hypocrites...dun tell me u have not been hypocritical b4?
Christians are no different from u....we breath the same air, eat the same food, watch the same tv.....only u r portraying christians as a different breed....so who's discriminating who?
As for the discrimination, it stems from christians making it sound like once they've converted, they are holier than thou. consequently, how can others not point n say "look" when u see christians doing wrong? Even then I am trying to keep an open mind that its the human who are at fault, but sometimes when Christians themselves make it seem like they're bettter than mere humans, don't u agree its hard not to see them as just humans capable of wrong like the rest of us?
and don't forget who burnt the christians. fellow christians. so who the blame lies with? the christians, for allowing themselves to believe tainted human ideas under the disguise of the word of God. -
Did i try to convert u?Originally posted by HENG@:if a statement is posted in a public forum, even if its not intended to be meant for me, it can be read by all and thus intended to be for everyone. As such, if i find it arrogant, do I not have the right to say so? While u may not be representative of your religion, your statement is a similar one so often utter by christians while trying to convert others.
As for the discrimination, it stems from christians making it sound like once they've converted, they are holier than thou. consequently, how can others not point n say "look" when u see christians doing wrong? Even then I am trying to keep an open mind that its the human who are at fault, but sometimes when Christians themselves make it seem like they're bettter than mere humans, don't u agree its hard not to see them as just humans capable of wrong like the rest of us?
For ur 2nd para, u can point, but please...point politely....this is a Christian Forum....I am not like some retards who go into Light of Atlantis or Buddhism Wisdom and say:U R ARROGANT/WRONG! U can do a check if u want.
To each his own, I was a non-believer b4 and I also dun like the way I was being preached. Like u, I also find many faults abt the faith, bringing out the gore and cruelty of crusades/inquisitions to every christian i know. But...is this the right way to tell Christians off?
I dun believe being a Christian automatically makes one a better person. It is hard for u no doubt, becoz u already have the impression that all christians are arrogant. I would say I am super stubborn, but arrogant...no....i won't force the gospel down on any non-believer's throat.... -
anyway my stand is firm. i believe in an ultimate god who, while he may be cruel, is still just, and will reward or punish as they deserve, those who have put in more or less personal effort in being as close to being pure of heart as possible, irregardless of whether they actually believe that christ died on the cross for them. because even if u believe that, and don't put in any personal effort into being as good as u can, so what? when we die, we will all have the answer.
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good for u. let's have peaceOriginally posted by HENG@:anyway my stand is firm. i believe in an ultimate god who, while he may be cruel, is still just, and will reward or punish as they deserve, those who have put in more or less personal effort in being as close to being pure of heart as possible, irregardless of whether they actually believe that christ died on the cross for them. because even if u believe that, and don't put in any personal effort into being as good as u can, so what? when we die, we will all have the answer.
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did i say u were trying to convert me? no. i am saying that the statement u made sounds in the same vein as that utter by many other christians often. we're not talking about u as a christian here alone. we're talking about christianity as a whole. just bear in mind, its not personal. its in generalOriginally posted by laoda99:Did i try to convert u?
For ur 2nd para, u can point, but please...point politely....this is a Christian Forum....I am not like some retards who go into Light of Atlantis or Buddhism Wisdom and say:"U R ARROGANT/WRONG!" U can do a check if u want.
To each his own, I was a non-believer b4 and I also dun like the way I was being preached. I dun believe being a Christian automatically makes one a better person. It is hard for u no doubt, becoz u already have the impression that all christians are arrogant. I would say I am super stubborn, but arrogant...no....i won't force the gospel down on any non-believer's throat....