Are Christians too liberal that we usually got bashed?
-
Originally posted by laurence82:I think its because of the persistence, by massive number of Christians, that have provoked such reactions. You have to spread the word, some got pushy, the other side got annoyed, then they'll come in to question, you say its allright, u doing for god, the other side got more annoyed, because thats not a logical answer..the cycle goes on.
Seriously, my advice is, for the nth time, change oneself to influence others. No one gonna get any work done, if he is shown to be NATO only.
actually some of the most annoying people I have met are Christians....
1. One OC of the neighbouring company of my reservist unit. On the ball, show no mercy attitude. P-iss his men off. My own OC - bad mouth individual who runs, digs, serves the men. Guess who the men will go to war with?
2. Cab driver who tries to convert me even though I've told him umpteen times that I am a Christian.
3. Door-to-door Christian tract distributor who refuse to take no for an answer even though I told her this family is a Christian family - still persistently inviting us to her church.
Learn the example of Jesus - told the disciples to dust the dirt off the sandals when people refuse to listen.... just go away! No need to get pushy.... -
haha...true!!! Some of the most annoying pple I met are Christians also...Originally posted by Chin Eng: actually some of the most annoying people I have met are Christians....
1. One OC of the neighbouring company of my reservist unit. On the ball, show no mercy attitude. P-iss his men off. My own OC - bad mouth individual who runs, digs, serves the men. Guess who the men will go to war with?
2. Cab driver who tries to convert me even though I've told him umpteen times that I am a Christian.
3. Door-to-door Christian tract distributor who refuse to take no for an answer even though I told her this family is a Christian family - still persistently inviting us to her church.
Learn the example of Jesus - told the disciples to dust the dirt off the sandals when people refuse to listen.... just go away! No need to get pushy....
Last para is good advice
-
nah. the fools are those who accept and believe the will and intentions of humans which has been written down in a book and then claim THAT is the will and intentions of god himself, totally disregarding god's possible true will.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." -
But seriously ah, if you don't want to follow what the book teaches, or what the leaders teach, then who are you going to follow?Originally posted by HENG@:nah. the fools are those who accept and believe the will and intentions of humans which has been written down in a book and then claim THAT is the will and intentions of god himself, totally disregarding god's possible true will. -
simple. u follow what God speaks to you in your heart. not some book which has been so badly influenced by human prejudices that who knows if it is as it was meant to be anymore.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:But seriously ah, if you don't want to follow what the book teaches, or what the leaders teach, then who are you going to follow? -
why do u believe god should speak to u in ur heart and not in a book?Originally posted by HENG@:simple. u follow what God speaks to you in your heart. not some book which has been so badly influenced by human prejudices that who knows if it is as it was meant to be anymore. -
Ah Heng, like that also no totally true. There is no point of reference and that is a dangerous thing. We cannot just simply listen to any whispers to our heart and assume it's from some god. That is how "holy wars" got started.Originally posted by HENG@:simple. u follow what God speaks to you in your heart. not some book which has been so badly influenced by human prejudices that who knows if it is as it was meant to be anymore.
If there is any "divine advice", then it must be pondered upon. There must be some confirmation(s). We are to seek more opinions. Also, there must be judgments made about the advice based on the character of the source. If we hear advice from friends or relatives, are we not to decide if we should agree based on their "credibility" or character?
That is why it is important to understand the nature of the source of advice, in this case we must understand God and His character. And studying the bible is the way to understand God. But we must be careful to read in rationally. -
Originally posted by HENG@:
ha. the bible? the bible is tainted by human influence and written by human hands. it is in no way a 100% accurate reflection of what God says, can't all of you see? Its not even 100% representative of what Christ said or taught. Instead it was used to cover up whatever the human leaders of the church didn't want the public to know or used to mislead the masses into thinking something else. Why don't you fools wake up?
1) U said u have never touch the bible b4, how do u know what Christ taught?
2) May I know what is 100% representative of what Christ said or taught then, and where did u learn abt it? -
but we know all too often the bible has been written by men with their own human thoughts and prejudices, and more men have throughout the course of history altered, deleted and added to the bible according to their own interests and whims and fancy. So how can we trust it?Originally posted by sillyme:Ah Heng, like that also no totally true. There is no point of reference and that is a dangerous thing. We cannot just simply listen to any whispers to our heart and assume it's from some god. That is how "holy wars" got started.
If there is any "divine advice", then it must be pondered upon. There must be some confirmation(s). We are to seek more opinions. Also, there must be judgments made about the advice based on the character of the source. If we hear advice from friends or relatives, are we not to decide if we should agree based on their "credibility" or character?
That is why it is important to understand the nature of the source of advice, in this case we must understand God and His character. And studying the bible is the way to understand God. But we must be careful to read in rationally. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
1) I never said I've never touched a bible b4.
[b]Originally posted by HENG@:
ha. the bible? the bible is tainted by human influence and written by human hands. it is in no way a 100% accurate reflection of what God says, can't all of you see? Its not even 100% representative of what Christ said or taught. Instead it was used to cover up whatever the human leaders of the church didn't want the public to know or used to mislead the masses into thinking something else. Why don't you fools wake up?
1) U said u have never touch the bible b4, how do u know what Christ taught?
2) May I know what is 100% representative of what Christ said or taught then, and where did u learn abt it?
[/b]
2) Perhaps u might want to try asking God in your heart, instead of clutching to a book which has encouraged so many injustices in our history, and continues to do so. -
and why do u believe god should speak to u in a book and not in your heart? just because some other humans say so? God is speaking to our heart all the time, its up to one whether he wants to quieten down and listen. When u find a lost wallet and turn it in intact, that is God speaking to you. When u help a stranded motorist on the road, that is God speaking to you. U may not realise it because u're so fixated that God only speaks to us thru a book, but u're missing out on so many wonderful messages that God is passing on to you thru your heart.Originally posted by laoda99:why do u believe god should speak to u in ur heart and not in a book? -
True. But I must stress that what the bible provide is a guideline for Christians. I support Sillyme's views that there should be a basis for the faith e.g. bible. If not, anything in ur heart goes (and what if it is wrong? how do u countercheck?)Originally posted by HENG@:and why do u believe god should speak to u in a book and not in your heart? just because some other humans say so? God is speaking to our heart all the time, its up to one whether he wants to quieten down and listen. When u find a lost wallet and turn it in intact, that is God speaking to you. When u help a stranded motorist on the road, that is God speaking to you. U may not realise it because u're so fixated that God only speaks to us thru a book, but u're missing out on so many wonderful messages that God is passing on to you thru your heart.
Do u think ur experiences with god is different from others? -
hmm .. i sense the fallacy of false dilemma here.Originally posted by HENG@:and why do u believe god should speak to u in a book and not in your heart? just because some other humans say so?
are you saying the two are mutually exclusive? -
so u agree that its JUST a guideline? a guideline, which like any other guideline, has mistakes and inaccuracies, which are continously revised as these mistakes and inaccuracies are slowly challenged revealed as we move on in time? so u agree that it IS a guideline.Originally posted by laoda99:True. But I must stress that what the bible provide is a guideline for Christians. I support Sillyme's views that there should be a basis for the faith e.g. bible. If not, anything in ur heart goes (and what if it is wrong? how do u countercheck?)
Do u think ur experiences with god is different from others? -
well u should ask the person who 1st posed the question because thats where your so-called fallacy of false dilemma arose.Originally posted by Icemoon:hmm .. i sense the fallacy of false dilemma here.
are you saying the two are mutually exclusive? -
laoda .. is that you?Originally posted by HENG@:well u should ask the person who 1st posed the question because thats where your so-called fallacy of false dilemma arose.
-
yup.Originally posted by Icemoon:laoda .. is that you? -
And of course.. you do get to see far too many christians trying to hard-sell christianity, talk about theology beyond EH..
Just look at the Pope bash Homosexuals thread.. The majority of the last 100-150 posts are not related to topic..
Even within EH, the Christians are bad-mouthing the atheist, the Myanmar Buddhist monk..
Also, you need to define "bashing".. I haven't see Christians kanna mugged (other than 1st-2nd centuries), I haven't seen Christians kanna discriminated by law (except JH or maybe mormons, if you guys wanna classify them as Christian community).. If Christians are taking a more active and forceful approach to denounce other people's beliefs, and these other people defend against such on-slaught, I will not see it as bashing.. -
another way to look at it is: the present society that Christianity has found it's foundation has developed so much that religion and politics are divorced.. religion itself cannot address most of the societal problems.. however, a few centuries ago when religion is politics, the Christians are the aggressors.. Just look at the wars started in the name of Christians in the past..Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Yes, Christians have been too caught up with being politically correct that they have drifted far from the Scriptures. Trying hard to please the world, they have become so worldly that they have become salt that has lost its taste.
Christians should stand up for what they believe in. The teachings of Christ will arouse anger and opposition from the world. The Greek word for the church is to be 'called out' from the masses. If our teachings and beliefs are so pleasing to the world, there is no need to call us out from the world.
I say stick to the teachings in the Scriptures. As for the issue that was mentioned, ie. homosexuality...there is no question in my mind. The Bible condemns it and so Christianity does not condone it. Christians in positions of influence and authority (and there are quite a number in our society) must unite against any attempt to introduce an alternative gospel or a liberal version of christianity.
For muslim countries (specifically the middle east) The religion and politics are still very much intertwined.. But then, these are the countries that were not as developed as the Europeans or US.
so your stand is "Traditional Christians" are never liberal..
As for the issue about homosexuals.. It will be OOT if we talk about it here. Hence, will not debate against this point.. -
no...i would say as the guideline is a perfect one given by god to let us see how much we fall short, men can never keep all of it. However, it does not mean we have a free license to sin since we cannot keep all the laws. Rather, we follow becoz we love god, not out of fear.Originally posted by HENG@:so u agree that its JUST a guideline? a guideline, which like any other guideline, has mistakes and inaccuracies, which are continously revised as these mistakes and inaccuracies are slowly challenged revealed as we move on in time? so u agree that it IS a guideline.
no...i do not believe it is continuously revised...once god given it to us, like what I told SIS, it is eternally binding, just that we are no longer punished for the sins.
yes i agree it is a guideline given by god...not just any other guideline which u said full of mistakes and inaccuracies...
if u understand the message of grace, then everything in the bible will be clear to u....if u only understand the bible by morality/legalism, then everything will not make sense to u becoz u will think it is full of contradictions. -
I beg to differ...u should see how christians are being persecuted in China...and predominantly buddhist dominated countries like myanmar, vietnam, laos etc.Originally posted by earthlings73:Also, you need to define "bashing".. I haven't see Christians kanna mugged (other than 1st-2nd centuries), I haven't seen Christians kanna discriminated by law (except JH or maybe mormons, if you guys wanna classify them as Christian community).. If Christians are taking a more active and forceful approach to denounce other people's beliefs, and these other people defend against such on-slaught, I will not see it as bashing.. -
there are 10 millions Catholics and 15 millions Protestants in China.. are they persecuted?Originally posted by laoda99:I beg to differ...u should see how christians are being persecuted in China...and predominantly buddhist dominated countries like myanmar, vietnam, laos etc.
and in Asia, it's more common for politics and religions to intertwined.. it has nothing to do with whether Christians are more liberal or not..
for the other more "developed" countries, like Singapore, Japan, etc.. do you see such religions/politics linkage?
And many Asian countries like China/Vietnam has a communist baggage.. They do not persecute just Christians.. They have the tendency to downplay religious figures and up-play Communists figures..
In essence, the statement you had raised "liberal => bashed" does not stand.. -
you want to play by numbers issit?Originally posted by earthlings73:there are 10 millions Catholics and 15 millions Protestants in China.. are they persecuted?
i throw the question back to you - are not one of the 10 and 15 millions christians being persecuted? -
Originally posted by earthlings73:
haah .. you are really a joker.
And many Asian countries like China/Vietnam has a communist baggage.. They do not persecute just Christians.. They have the tendency to downplay religious figures and up-play Communists figures..
you asked whether christians are being persecuted .. but you admitted they are being persecuted? -
If some folks are intent on bashing Christianity, the time will come to bring the Maintenance of Regious Harmony Act to bear on them:
'...where the Minister is satisfied that that person has committed or is attempting to commit any of the following acts:
(a) causing feelings of enmity, hatred, ill-will or hostility between different religious groups...
...he may make a restraining order against him.'
'..an order made under this section may restrain the person named therein from addressing or advising any religious group or religious institution or any member thereof or making any statement or causing any statement to be made, whether orally or in writing, concerning or affecting the relations between that religious group or religious institution and the Government or any other religious group or religious institution.'
' Any person who contravenes any provision of an order made under this Part shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to both and, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding $20,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to both. '
Chap167A Sect. 8, 9, 16
So be careful of what you say even on the net. You can be identified and brought to account.