extremist groups will always find a pretext to sow terror. The issue with the police already existed in UK in the 70s due to christian extremists on both catholic n protestant sides. if u believe that of the muslims, then u've certainly fallen into the extremists' trap. Go ask any decent muslim what they feel about terrorism. Over in UK we're so busy telling each other that we musn't allow ourselves to start pointing fingers at the muslim community as a whole because of a few depraved individuals and here u are doing EXACTLY what those terrorists hoped people would do. U can't say N.Ireland is a different issue. Terrorism is terrorism, nach. Wisen up.Originally posted by laoda99:slandering islam? look at the recent deeds done by the extreme fundamentalist groups...i dun think i need to elaborate more.....
N.Ireland is a far deeper issue u can imagine..dated back to Henry VIII's time...at least it is contain there....but look at the world around u now....police patrols everywhere...sheesh....
ha. the bible? the bible is tainted by human influence and written by human hands. it is in no way a 100% accurate reflection of what God says, can't all of you see? Its not even 100% representative of what Christ said or taught. Instead it was used to cover up whatever the human leaders of the church didn't want the public to know or used to mislead the masses into thinking something else. Why don't you fools wake up?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Yes, Christians have been too caught up with being politically correct that they have drifted far from the Scriptures. Trying hard to please the world, they have become so worldly that they have become salt that has lost its taste.
Christians should stand up for what they believe in. The teachings of Christ will arouse anger and opposition from the world. The Greek word for the church is to be 'called out' from the masses. If our teachings and beliefs are so pleasing to the world, there is no need to call us out from the world.
I say stick to the teachings in the Scriptures. As for the issue that was mentioned, ie. homosexuality...there is no question in my mind. The Bible condemns it and so Christianity does not condone it. Christians in positions of influence and authority (and there are quite a number in our society) must unite against any attempt to introduce an alternative gospel or a liberal version of christianity.
The Basque separatists, Irish Republicans and Tamil Tigers are all local outfits. Islamic terrorism goes everywhere. Osama bin Laden has agents all over the world.Originally posted by HENG@:extremist groups will always find a pretext to sow terror. The issue with the police already existed in UK in the 70s due to christian extremists on both catholic n protestant sides. if u believe that of the muslims, then u've certainly fallen into the extremists' trap. Go ask any decent muslim what they feel about terrorism. Over in UK we're so busy telling each other that we musn't allow ourselves to start pointing fingers at the muslim community as a whole because of a few depraved individuals and here u are doing EXACTLY what those terrorists hoped people would do. U can't say N.Ireland is a different issue. Terrorism is terrorism, nach. Wisen up.
in the past it was the communist terrorists. now they are muslim. but i suspect if u go take a look at the top people, many of them came from the era of communist terrorists. lets face it, global terrorists have existed for quite a while. Its their reason for fighting that differs. Its more of an excuse to fight than a true conviction. Very recently it has been revealed that support for osama bin laden has dropped in many countries, where places like indonesia, previously had about 50% of the muslim population supporting him, now it has decreased to about 20%. Very significantly, in Lebanon his support has dropped to 2% only. Terrorism is about idealogy, its about extremism. It has nothing to do with religion, other than it being an excuse for the existance of terrorism currrently. Like I said, this segregation and blaming of Islam is exactly what the terrorists wanted. Why are u playing yourself so easily into their hands? Only fools do that.Originally posted by iveco:The Basque separatists, Irish Republicans and Tamil Tigers are all local outfits. Islamic terrorism goes everywhere. Osama bin Laden has agents all over the world.
If you look at the WTC basement attacks in 1993, the attempt on JP2's life in Manila in 1995, the US embassy strikes in Africa in 1998, the events of 9/11, the Bali bombings a year later, the Madrid and London blasts, all point to the same brains. We have to face up to the fact that the West's meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has made them vulnerable to attacks from Islamic fundamentalists. Although the main Al-Qaeda group has been torn up, splinter cells still exist worldwide. What needs to be done is examine the reasons why these groups can't just disappear. It takes two to tango. The Al-Qaeda groups are around for a reason.Originally posted by HENG@:in the past it was the communist terrorists. now they are muslim. but i suspect if u go take a look at the top people, many of them came from the era of communist terrorists. lets face it, global terrorists have existed for quite a while. Its their reason for fighting that differs. Its more of an excuse to fight than a true conviction. Very recently it has been revealed that support for osama bin laden has dropped in many countries, where places like indonesia, previously had about 50% of the muslim population supporting him, now it has decreased to about 20%. Very significantly, in Lebanon his support has dropped to 2% only. Terrorism is about idealogy, its about extremism. It has nothing to do with religion, other than it being an excuse for the existance of terrorism currrently. Like I said, this segregation and blaming of Islam is exactly what the terrorists wanted. Why are u playing yourself so easily into their hands? Only fools do that.
m'dear, like it or not, even terrorism is a lucrative business. u don't carry out attacks, your sponsers n patrons ain't gonna give u the moolah no more. These attacks may be carried out in the name of Islam, but it sure as hell ain't representative of the religion. And honestly, they haven't killed as many or gone on as long as the Christian crusades(officially church sanctioned) did, so I would be careful b4 pointing a finger at Islam and crucifying them for it.Originally posted by iveco:If you look at the WTC basement attacks in 1993, the attempt on JP2's life in Manila in 1995, the US embassy strikes in Africa in 1998, the events of 9/11, the Bali bombings a year later, the Madrid and London blasts, all point to the same brains. We have to face up to the fact that the West's meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has made them vulnerable to attacks from Islamic fundamentalists. Although the main Al-Qaeda group has been torn up, splinter cells still exist worldwide. What needs to be done is examine the reasons why these groups can't just disappear. It takes two to tango. The Al-Qaeda groups are around for a reason.
So all the more we need to win over the support of moderate Muslims or else they will fall into the trap of extremism. The fact that many of them hail from the lower-income groups makes it all the more challenging. But I am confident we'll manage in the end.Originally posted by HENG@:m'dear, like it or not, even terrorism is a lucrative business. u don't carry out attacks, your sponsers n patrons ain't gonna give u the moolah no more. These attacks may be carried out in the name of Islam, but it sure as hell ain't representative of the religion. And honestly, they haven't killed as many or gone on as long as the Christian crusades(officially church sanctioned) did, so I would be careful b4 pointing a finger at Islam and crucifying them for it.
The fact is that moderate muslims ARE as horrified about most terrorist attacks as we are. I only flew back to sg on sat, I saw for myself the muslim community's reaction in UK, in London, and they were equally shocked, horrified and saddened as we were. In fact, they were even more shocked horrified n saddened then we were because someone had committed murder of innocents and then used the islam to justify their murderous acts. I think u're in danger of thinking all low income moderate muslims blame the west for their problems. the fact is that that is not true and muslims are tougher in mind than u think.Originally posted by iveco:So all the more we need to win over the support of moderate Muslims or else they will fall into the trap of extremism. The fact that many of them hail from the lower-income groups makes it all the more challenging. But I am confident we'll manage in the end.
Then I think moderate muslims should show support to the authorities by providing info on the terrorists, and not just cheap talk by condemning.Originally posted by HENG@:The fact is that moderate muslims ARE as horrified about most terrorist attacks as we are. I only flew back to sg on sat, I saw for myself the muslim community's reaction in UK, in London, and they were equally shocked, horrified and saddened as we were. In fact, they were even more shocked horrified n saddened then we were because someone had committed murder of innocents and then used the islam to justify their murderous acts. I think u're in danger of thinking all low income moderate muslims blame the west for their problems. the fact is that that is not true and muslims are tougher in mind than u think.
the fact is that they are. hey seriously condemning someone is not cheap talk. at least the condemned the terrorists. I wonder if the church has ever officially apologised for the crusades?Originally posted by laoda99:Then I think moderate muslims should show support to the authorities by providing info on the terrorists, and not just cheap talk by condemning.
Actions count. It will draw the line between moderate and extremism.
Originally posted by HENG@:if it is what u said, we should be seeing the recent case solved soon. If not, it will be just cheap talk.
the fact is that they are. hey seriously condemning someone is not cheap talk. at least the condemned the terrorists. I wonder if the church has ever officially apologised for the crusades?
maybe u, not having stayed in London in the aftermath, wouldn't know how much of its been solved. The 4 bombers have been identified, their homes have been raided and the person who recruited them and made the explosives has been picked up in a Muslim country: Egypt. Yes certainly I would say its more or less solved. So I guess you have to take your accusation of it being cheap talk back.Originally posted by laoda99:if it is what u said, we should be seeing the recent case solved soon. If not, it will be just cheap talk.
abt the part in bold, u know they have....
Pope John Paul II has. I am not even a catholic but i knew.Originally posted by HENG@:maybe u, not having stayed in London in the aftermath, wouldn't know how much of its been solved. The 4 bombers have been identified, their homes have been raided and the person who recruited them and made the explosives has been picked up in a Muslim country: Egypt. Yes certainly I would say its more or less solved. So I guess you have to take your accusation of it being cheap talk back.
As for the part in bold, I don't know they have, which is why I asked.
u're not catholic but u're christian all the same.Originally posted by laoda99:Pope John Paul II has. I am not even a catholic but i knew.
Is Egypt handing over the terrorists?
mebbe u can get the pope to call u personally at home...Originally posted by HENG@:u're not catholic but u're christian all the same.
and yes they're handing him over. look, whether they hand him over or not is irrelavent. u claimed that muslims were just talking cheap, but the fact is that most of the main perpetuators have been identified n those alive have been nabbed. That shows they did more than talk cheap. I think u have to take back your "they jus cheap talk" sentence.
Besides, if u feel thats cheap talk, then the church's official apology for the crusades are cheap talk too. u don't see them do anything else in remorse for it. personally i feel an apology or condemnation which comes from the heart is one of the biggest actions anyone could take.
well 1st they have to be absolutely sure that he was the one. right now, investigations are premature and it wouldn't be totally fair to say he was the one. Eygptian authorities are subject to conducting their own investigations are they not? They can't possibly risk implicating an innocent man in a haste to seek justice. The law states that one is innocent unless proven guilty.Originally posted by laoda99:mebbe u can get the pope to call u personally at home...
If Egypt have nabbed the perpetrators, then it is only fair that they be handed over to a international court of justice and be trialed for violence against humanity. If not, I take that as just NATO.
We shall see whether there are any more arrests/break-thrus....I hope there will.....Originally posted by HENG@:well 1st they have to be absolutely sure that he was the one. right now, investigations are premature and it wouldn't be totally fair to say he was the one. Eygptian authorities are subject to conducting their own investigations are they not? They can't possibly risk implicating an innocent man in a haste to seek justice. The law states that one is innocent unless proven guilty.
u seem almost insistant that not handing over suspects or having no more arrests is considered NATO... any major criminal investigations will always stretch months or sometimes even years. That it moved as fast as it did in the 1st week after the bombing already shows its more than NATO.Originally posted by laoda99:We shall see whether there are any more arrests/break-thrus....I hope there will.....
wat i am more interested in: information preventing further bombings, arresting people even b4 they commit the crime....not after the incident then just catch some small fries for show...Originally posted by HENG@:u seem almost insistant that not handing over suspects or having no more arrests is considered NATO... any major criminal investigations will always stretch months or sometimes even years. That it moved as fast as it did in the 1st week after the bombing already shows its more than NATO.
hmm, who knows whats next? but if the irish catholics weren't all willing to inform on the IRA, don't expect the muslim community to ve overly forthcoming. Betrayal can be a fatal business.Originally posted by laoda99:wat i am more interested in: information preventing further bombings, arresting people even b4 they commit the crime....not after the incident then just catch some small fries for show...
madrid, london....what next?
then the onus is really up to them...whether they want their faith to be portrayed as terrorism or otherwise...Originally posted by HENG@:hmm, who knows whats next? but if the irish catholics weren't all willing to inform on the IRA, don't expect the muslim community to ve overly forthcoming. Betrayal can be a fatal business.
u're missing the point again. betrayal is a deadly business. its really not totally up to them. besides, for all the plots which have been foiled by people who do inform, most of them don't even make it to the news. So are u very sure when u say nobody informs and prevents attacks from happening? For eg do u know, recently b4 the London attack, how many other attacks on London have been thwarted? if you can't answer this, then u really have no right to accuse the muslim community of NATO.Originally posted by laoda99:then the onus is really up to them...whether they want their faith to be portrayed as terrorism or otherwise...
it is difficult for pple not to generalize....even for pple who understand the faiths...
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."Originally posted by HENG@:ha. the bible? the bible is tainted by human influence and written by human hands. it is in no way a 100% accurate reflection of what God says, can't all of you see? Its not even 100% representative of what Christ said or taught. Instead it was used to cover up whatever the human leaders of the church didn't want the public to know or used to mislead the masses into thinking something else. Why don't you fools wake up?