GOD desires all men to be saved...
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As shown in:
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:3-6)
My comment: GOD's grace works both ways. He gives freely, but the individual must make a personal effort to receive it. This relationship works both ways. Only by acknowledging Christ as our savior can we be given everlasting life and spared from eternal condemnation. -
true.for all men are his children.
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Laoda: define grace?
We seemed to have differing views.
cheers -
GOD's unmerited favour to men.Originally posted by M©+square:Laoda: define grace?
We seemed to have differing views.
cheers
I am still a young christian. I maybe wrong.
What is ur view? -
There are many paths to reach God. Many ways to be saved.
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what do u think these 'paths' and 'ways' are?Originally posted by shade343:There are many paths to reach God. Many ways to be saved.
For myself, I believe it is Christ only.
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Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me. (John 14:6) -
There is no such thing as 1 religion is the only true way to God. The many different religions that are established on this earth represents a different aspect of God. Christianity isnt the only religion that allows you to reach God. The other religion also provides you such grace.Originally posted by laoda99:what do u think these 'paths' and 'ways' are?
Let me give you an analogy. Supposedly you want to reach Changi Airport. How do you reach there? There are many ways for you to get there. You can take the MRT, you can take the BUs, or you can reach there through the PIE. -
Ok, i know ur stand already.Originally posted by shade343:There is no such thing as 1 religion is the only true way to God. The many different religions that are established on this earth represents a different aspect of God. Christianity isnt the only religion that allows you to reach God. The other religion also provides you such grace.
Let me give you an analogy. Supposedly you want to reach Changi Airport. How do you reach there? There are many ways for you to get there. You can take the MRT, you can take the BUs, or you can reach there through the PIE.
For me, my stand is based on what i read from the bible. I am a Christian so I definitely must believe the word of GOD.
I am curious how u come to your conclusion that all paths lead to GOD? Is it based on your knowledge of all the religions in the world that u concluded this is so?
My concept of grace is GOD's unmerited favour to men, something GOD decided to give to us, not based on our merits. What is your definition? What is the other religion that u believe also provide u with such grace?
Just a side question: So you think all religions/faiths in the world represent/worship the same GOD? Abt the MRT/Buses, I respect your opinion, but to Christians, faith dun work the same way as in travelling to Changi Airport. -
I was just giving you an example to illustrate my point. As for my conclusion..its is based on my observation and some deep reading of certain books(yes, the bible is one of them). I believe all religion provides you with such grace not only christianity.Originally posted by laoda99:Ok, i know ur stand already.
For me, my stand is based on what i read from the bible. I am a Christian so I definitely must believe the word of GOD.
I am curious how u come to your conclusion that all paths lead to GOD? Is it based on your knowledge of all the religions in the world that u concluded this is so?
My concept of grace is GOD's unmerited favour to men, something GOD decided to give to us, not based on our merits. What is your definition? What is the other religion that u believe also provide u with such grace?
Just a side question: So you think all religions/faiths in the world represent/worship the same GOD? Abt the MRT/Buses, I respect your opinion, but to Christians, faith dun work the same way as in travelling to Changi Airport. -
Ok....Originally posted by shade343:I was just giving you an example to illustrate my point. As for my conclusion..its is based on my observation and some deep reading of certain books(yes, the bible is one of them). I believe all religion provides you with such grace not only christianity.
just a side note: wonder if u have read the quran/sayings of their prophets (hadith).
Even muslims believed theirs is the only way. They believe most of the jews/christians are going to hell, only muslims and some christians/jews who believe in Allah will be saved.
In the judgement days, it was said that all the jews/christians/non-muslims would be very thirsty. They want to drink, but the angel will not give them, instead create a mirage and lead them all fall to hell.
So far, I have heard of minor religious groups such as Tian Dao, Hare Krishna advocating all paths lead to one....some catholics also believe in this I think, due to the ecumenical movement...
i maybe wrong...what are the catholics' stand on this? Anyone can share? -
Im not sure about Tian Dao or Hare Krishna as I have never read anything about them. Have you read things by Sai Baba?Originally posted by laoda99:Ok....
just a side note: wonder if u have read the quran/sayings of their prophets (hadith).
Even muslims believed theirs is the only way. They believe most of the jews/christians are going to hell, only muslims and some christians/jews who believe in Allah will be saved.
In the judgement days, it was said that all the jews/christians/non-muslims would be very thirsty. They want to drink, but the angel will not give them, instead create a mirage and lead them all fall to hell.
So far, I have heard of minor religious groups such as Tian Dao, Hare Krishna advocating all paths lead to one.... -
yeah...sai baba is one also. Read it briefly somewhere.Originally posted by shade343:Im not sure about Tian Dao or Hare Krishna as I have never read anything about them. Have you read things by Sai Baba?
What does he advocated? Care to share? How he concluded all paths lead to one? -
you are just like many young christians. very enthusiatic. i used to be like you too.Originally posted by laoda99:GOD's unmerited favour to men.
I am still a young christian. I maybe wrong.
What is ur view?
like i said many times dont read the bible literally. everybody can do that. what you read literally is actually not the real truth. -
Are u a christian too? Glad to see ur opinion here...Originally posted by dragg:you are just like many young christians. very enthusiatic. i used to be like you too.
like i said many times dont read the bible literally. everybody can do that. what you read literally is actually not the real truth.
wat is your opinion of the real truth really?
For me, I nearly believe in the concept of all paths lead to one as well....but in life....i believe we must somehow state our beliefs.....cannot be 'not here, not there'.....i believe by having a stand would make one more clear-headed and not miserable...what do u think? -
Pls check out his website hereOriginally posted by laoda99:yeah...sai baba is one also. Read it briefly somewhere.
What does he advocated? Care to share? How he concluded all paths lead to one?
He advocates a lot of goodwill
http://www.sathyasai.org/ -
I dont mean i know the real truth.Originally posted by laoda99:Are u a christian too? Glad to see ur opinion here...
wat is your opinion of the real truth really?
Only scholars/pastors/people who really understand the history/culture of christianity can clearly explain to you the essence of what is written in the bible.
take for example the commandment 'thou shall not steal'
what does it mean? literally everybody will tell you keeping something that does not belong to you without asking is considered stealing.
but what i learned from trinity college was more than that.
if you do your personal things during office hour you are stealing from your employer.
this is just an example of why we shouldnt just 'read the bible'.
to understand better one needs guidance. and guidance must come from people who really understand the history/culture of christianity.
the bible was written over different periods and under differing circumstances thus the statement over different period can be different in meaning. -
I know what u mean. Even my BS teacher says in the book of Corinthians the command for women to wear scarves and to keep silent in church is for the Corinthians at that period of time only. We have to take into consideration why Paul gave that command in that context, and not just say all women are to do that now.Originally posted by dragg:I dont mean i know the real truth.
Only scholars/pastors/people who really understand the history/culture of christianity can clearly explain to you the essence of what is written in the bible.
take for example the commandment 'thou shall not steal'
what does it mean? literally everybody will tell you keeping something that does not belong to you without asking is considered stealing.
but what i learned from trinity college was more than that.
if you do your personal things during office hour you are stealing from your employer.
this is just an example of why we shouldnt just 'read the bible'.
to understand better one needs guidance. and guidance must come from people who really understand the history/culture of christianity.
the bible was written over different periods and under differing circumstances thus the statement over different period can be different in meaning.
Which is why I believed we shouldnt 'read the bible' literally also.
But then, what is unchanging is: Salvation thru faith by GOD's grace. Christ is the way, the life and the truth. As Christians, our focus should always be on Christ. If we lose focus, we may lose faith and backslide, not knowing what is true/false anymore. When the situation becomes 'anything goes', then all the false teachings will come out. -
Hmm...funny. Why not you go thru each thread which you quote verses and those you gave your comment to,Originally posted by laoda99:I know what u mean. Even my BS teacher says in the book of Corinthians the command for women to wear scarves and to keep silent in church is for the Corinthians at that period of time only. We have to take into consideration why Paul gave that command in that context, and not just say all women are to do that now.
Which is why I believed we shouldnt 'read the bible' literally also.
But then, what is unchanging is: Salvation thru faith by GOD's grace. Christ is the way, the life and the truth. As Christians, our focus should always be on Christ. If we lose focus, we may lose faith and backslide, not knowing what is true/false anymore. When the situation becomes 'anything goes', then all the false teachings will come out.
and tell me which one of your thread, you did not read and interprete literally?
On your claims about false teachings, there were too much to name. So to streamline our discussion.
Why not tell me which teachings should be mantained as true teachings? These teachings should not be - anything goes category?
Cheers -
hMz...u all actualli believe in what you read from the books ( bibles, etc)????
All are written by humans wat....i'll not believe in any...unless "he" approached me.... -
Sorry this may seem a cliche,Originally posted by laoda99:Are u a christian too? Glad to see ur opinion here...
wat is your opinion of the real truth really?
For me, I nearly believe in the concept of all paths lead to one as well....but in life....i believe we must somehow state our beliefs.....cannot be 'not here, not there'.....i believe by having a stand would make one more clear-headed and not miserable...what do u think?
young christians tend to have straightforward views on Christianity.
this progress just seemed so common. Maybe i've seen too much.
Cheers -
You wait on mount Sinai Lo.Originally posted by dcx:hMz...u all actualli believe in what you read from the books ( bibles, etc)????
All are written by humans wat....i'll not believe in any...unless "he" approached me....
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huh?Originally posted by M©+square:You wait on mount Sinai Lo. -
Hmm....what are the parts which u believe that I read and interprete literally? Care to share with me here as I already lost track of my replies.Originally posted by M©+square:Hmm...funny. Why not you go thru each thread which you quote verses and those you gave your comment to,
and tell me which one of your thread, you did not read and interprete literally?
On your claims about false teachings, there were too much to name. So to streamline our discussion.
Why not tell me which teachings should be mantained as true teachings? These teachings should not be - anything goes category?
Cheers
Mcsquare, the comments I made is based on the faith I believe. If u are referring to my opinion why I think Christ is the only way (taken literally from John 14:6), it is becoz I have to believe that if I am to call myself a Christian. What is your stand on this verse then as a fellow Christian?
What I believe are true teachings: Love your GOD and your neighbour. The ten commandments are summarised into these two by the lord Jesus. In my opinion, true teachings are those which focus on Christ and bring us closer to him. Anything that brings a christian away from christ/focus on the human self and not GOD is false teaching, but that is only my opinion.
Why I believe anything goes category is dangerous: We would be mixing trues and half trues, and even false teachings until we do not know what is the truth anymore.
When the serpent tempts Eve, it says:" Does GOD really say that u will die?", thus bringing Eve to doubt GOD and away from GOD. In my opinion, this is the same when anyone says:"Did the bible really says Christ is THE ONLY WAY?".
I am only speaking for myself as a individual. I can never represent all the opinions of all the Christian bros and sis here. But salvation thru Christ is the only way that I would believe as a Christian, not anything else. If I choose to believe otherwise, then I would not call myself a Christian anymore.
Sames goes for our muslim friends. One can never call himself a muslim if he does not believe Allah is GOD and mohammad is his prophet. As Christians, I believe we need to stand fast to our beliefs, and not doubt Christ.
Cheers! -
Why I disagree with anything-goes theory:
In the book of matthew:
Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Remember the luke-warm church in the book of Revelations? GOD will spit them out....(I know all about you: how you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were one or the other, but since you are neither, but only lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth. You say to yourself, 'I am rich, I have made a fortune, and have everything I want', never realizing that you are wretchedly and pitiably poor, and blind and naked too).
and
1 Corinthians 21: Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. -
Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm....what are the parts which u believe that I read and interprete literally? Care to share with me here as I already lost track of my replies.
Mcsquare, the comments I made is based on the faith I believe. If u are referring to my opinion why I think Christ is the only way (taken literally from John 14:6), it is becoz I have to believe that if I am to call myself a Christian. What is your stand on this verse then as a fellow Christian?
I did not question on your opinion about the way to salvation on John 14v6.
If you call yourself a christian, you do not [have] to believe. You will believe with all your heart.
To me, John 14v6 does not only talk about salvation. There is more to it.
What I believe are true teachings: Love your GOD and your neighbour. The ten commandments are summarised into these two by the lord Jesus. In my opinion, true teachings are those which focus on Christ and bring us closer to him.
>>>Anything that brings a christian away from christ/focus on the human self and not GOD is false teaching, but that is only my opinion.
Agreed on your first half portion.
>>>Interesting what kind of Christian teachings would draw Christians away from God? Do i interprete the word 'anything' some teachings other than church/bible teachings itself?
I can teach about 'tithing onto God'(true teaching)
Blessing God so to recieve multiple folds of blessings(True teaching)
every sunday, does it bring anyone closer to God and focus onto God?
In my opinion. There is always two sides of the coin. It all depends on the speaker and the interpretation of listener.
Why I believe anything goes category is dangerous: We would be mixing trues and half trues, and even false teachings until we do not know what is the truth anymore.
23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are beneficial. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Cor10v23 NRSV
In contextwise. I don't know about you. But it is open to various interpretation. Which is the truth?
I see this context as half truth.
When the serpent tempts Eve, it says:" Does GOD really say that u will die?", thus bringing Eve to doubt GOD and away from GOD. In my opinion, this is the same when anyone says:"Did the bible really says Christ is THE ONLY WAY?".
IMO, How could anyone be like the serpent? Agenda differences.
Let this matter rest. It's a matter of opinions.
I am only speaking for myself as a individual. I can never represent all the opinions of all the Christian bros and sis here. [But salvation thru Christ is the only way that I would believe as a Christian, not anything else.] If I choose to believe otherwise, then I would not call myself a Christian anymore.
Agreed to the bracketed. The rest are all opinions.
Let it go.
Sames goes for our muslim friends. One can never call himself a muslim if he does not believe Allah is GOD and mohammad is his prophet. As Christians, I believe we need to stand fast to our beliefs, and not doubt Christ.
Not asking you to doubt Christ.
Just telling you that in Christ, there are many perspective to seeing God.
Salvation is one way. Process of Christianhood is many.
Do not put yourself/belief/Bible/God in box. Lest you may not see Him moving in new ways.
Cheers.
Cheers!