Something to share....
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this is right 'cos God knows we are not perfect.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I guess this answers the question on the importance of the laws? -
You are right .. it is a way of life for them. They have oral tradition and commandments like the Jews.
Unlike Christians who have no hard and fast rules, so if you slacken you just backslide. Like if you play truant the dm never call you .. you will soon be out of school. Cos you have no commandments or rules you sought to follow.
So allow me to summarise
By RIGHT, all the old laws HAVE to be followed strictly. But now it is just tat u all r wilfully not following it or even knowing it. Since many examples tat warrant the death penalty is already commited in our everyday life, u guys r really free to commit any autrocities, such as killing and robbing, as much as u like since it can't really get worse. -
I can't speak for the Protestants, but we Catholics have oral tradition.Originally posted by stupidissmart:You are right .. it is a way of life for them. They have oral tradition and commandments like the Jews.
Unlike Christians who have no hard and fast rules, so if you slacken you just backslide. Like if you play truant the dm never call you .. you will soon be out of school. Cos you have no commandments or rules you sought to follow.
So allow me to summarise
By RIGHT, all the old laws HAVE to be followed strictly. But now it is just tat u all r wilfully not following it or even knowing it. Since many examples tat warrant the death penalty is already commited in our everyday life, u guys r really free to commit any autrocities, such as killing and robbing, as much as u like since it can't really get worse. -
i disagree with u on the 2nd paragraph. U should know that Christians follow Christ's commands becoz we love him, not becoz of some oral tradition which says die die must do so. Grace precedes over law, so now we dun keep the law for the sake of keeping it, but becoz we love Christ and wants to emulate his love for others.Originally posted by Icemoon:You are right .. it is a way of life for them. They have oral tradition and commandments like the Jews.
Unlike Christians who have no hard and fast rules, so if you slacken you just backslide. Like if you play truant the dm never call you .. you will soon be out of school. Cos you have no commandments or rules you sought to follow.
The desire to do good/avoid sin should always come from inside of each individual who loves Christ, not becoz out of fear of punishment/want to gain merit from GOD.
We can only be justified in GOD's/Christ's righteousness, not self-righteousness/hypocricity.
U believe that Jews can only try their best to follow the torah. Then u should know that nobody can keep all these laws completely. But it doesn't mean we continue to sin since everybody is sinning. It means we 'run' to the cross whenever we want to sin, and let us be reminded what Christ paid for us a hefty price so dearly on the cross that if we love him, we should not sin anymore or give GOD a broken heart.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. -Rom. 5:20
I may not agree some of Charismatic Christians' doctrines, but I do agree with them on the topic of grace. It is the most important thing that GOD can gives us to deliver us from the bondage of sin. Otherwise, one would still be bound to sin and trying to fulfill all these laws in vain. -
If you follow Christ's commands, then it is like following the law from the OT perspective, except Jesus reduced all the laws to only two principles.Originally posted by laoda99:U should know that Christians follow Christ's commands becoz we love him, not becoz of some oral tradition which says die die must do so. Grace precedes over law, so now we dun keep the law for the sake of keeping it, but becoz we love Christ and wants to emulate his love for others.The desire to do good/avoid sin should always come from inside of each individual who loves Christ, not becoz out of fear for GOD/want to gain merit from GOD.
I dunno why Christians like to pervert people's sincere love for God and His commandments into fear and gaining brownie points.
Are you a Jew? Do you think they act and think the way you imagine them to be? If you're not too sure, then please read more Jewish literature.
Again I see the "all Jews are Pharisees" mentality. Just 'cos Jesus rebuked and scolded some Pharisees "bloody vipers" doesn't mean all Jews are that way.U believe that Jews can only try their best to follow the torah. Then u should know that nobody can keep all these laws completely.
If God knew man is not perfect at the time of Mount Sinai, then He doesn't expect everyone or anyone to keep all the laws completely. -
One thing we must keep in mind, no oral tradition or law can save u from sins. Christ can.Originally posted by Icemoon:If God knew man is not perfect at the time of Mount Sinai, then He doesn't expect everyone or anyone to keep all the laws completely.
Words of men can fail, but GOD's love, which is patient and kind, will never fails.... -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
The part in bold I disagree with u. Since when did christians pervert people's sincere love for God? R u generalising becoz u met some 'christians' who do?
I dunno why [b]Christians like to pervert people's sincere love for God and His commandments into fear and gaining brownie points.
Are you a Jew? Do you think they act and think the way you imagine them to be? If you're not too sure, then please read more Jewish literature.
Again I see the "all Jews are Pharisees" mentality. Just 'cos Jesus rebuked and scolded some Pharisees "bloody vipers" doesn't mean all Jews are that way. b]
Just becoz I say Christians obey GOD out of love, does not mean I accuse of Jews not loving GOD, nor do i treat all Jews as pharisees. Yes I am not a jew. But u r not a jew too. I dun read Jewish literature, but I am glad u did.
I am sure most jews are sincere with their relationship with GOD, but laws dun save u. It is only GOD's grace freely given to us which can.
I am lor so again...but only GOD's grace can save us from sins...no oral tradition can...
words of men are fallible...but GOD's grace is completely and ever reliable... -
Thus I believe the law was given to the pple as a benchmark. It was never to follow rigidly, nor to make some pple more righteous than the other. It is just GOD showing his expectations to us.Originally posted by Icemoon:If God knew man is not perfect at the time of Mount Sinai, then He doesn't expect everyone or anyone to keep all the laws completely. -
Amen to your first part, first sentence. No commandments or tradition can save the Jew. We realize, even when they had the Laws, they still sinned and sinned themselves to Babylon.Originally posted by laoda99:One thing we must keep in mind, no oral tradition or law can save u from sins. Christ can.
Words of men can fail, but GOD's love, which is patient and kind, will never fails....
Amen to your second part.
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Christians always like to say the Law is a curse and those pple willingly put themselves under bondage. Then triumph (sarcastically), "aren't you glad we have grace?" I think many people fail to realize the Law was a blessing to the Jews, and still is.Originally posted by laoda99:The part in bold I disagree with u. Since when did christians pervert people's sincere love for God? R u generalising becoz u met some 'christians' who do?I am sure most jews are sincere with their relationship with GOD, but laws dun save u. It is only GOD's grace freely given to us which can.
What are you trying to say? Do you think they have the grace?
Please don't give me the "they are God's chosen people" ans again. No, the Jews do not believe they are superior to other races and while others are judged by their belief in Christ, they are judged by other means. -
here we go again...
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reminds me of national service .. got a song with that lyrics.Originally posted by breytonhartge:here we go again... 
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Yes...All of us have GOD's grace...other forumers have already said it....grace is a two-way thing....on our part we have to make an effort to receive it, that is believe in Christ who was sent by him to redeem us in the new covenant.Originally posted by Icemoon:What are you trying to say? Do you think they have the grace?
Please don't give me the "they are God's chosen people" ans again. No, the Jews do not believe they are superior to other races and while others are judged by their belief in Christ, they are judged by other means.
Like u, I also do not think any race on earth is superior to another. Whether u are a jew or gentile, we are all children of GOD.
U still think they are judged by other means e.g. the LAW? it is so hard to change the stoned hearts of pple to make them believe GOD had given us his grace.....all we need to do is to receive it......give u something thousand folds better....and u still want to cling on the old one.....it doesn't make sense..... -
That was what I asked you - do you think they are judged by other means (eg. Law) as they are God's chosen pple while gentiles are judged by their belief in Christ?Originally posted by laoda99:U still think they are judged by other means e.g. the LAW? ......give u something thousand folds better....and u still want to cling on the old one.....it doesn't make sense.....
Old one is also given by God, can you say it is not good? -
I dunno. GOD probably have his provisions for them as they are his chosen pple. Even Christ says:" Forgive them for they know not what they have done."Originally posted by Icemoon:That was what I asked you - do you think they are judged by other means (eg. Law) as they are God's chosen pple while gentiles are judged by their belief in Christ?
Old one is also given by God, can you say it is not good?
The jews have a special place in GOD's eyes. At the end of the road, all will know who HE is and worship HIM. It is a promise in the bible.
Old one is given by GOD, cannot say it is not good, but new one is definitely very very much better