An extended thread for the Tower Of Babel Discussion
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[quoted by stupidissmart]So wat is wrong with making a tower to grouped together ? About making a name for themselves, can't they make it for their future decendents ? Just like the pyramids or great walls, to show the work to their ancesters. Even if they build it to show god, why is it wrong ? It is like telling your parents u had become stronger and successful which they should be proud of u, not be jealous or hate u amd be cursed or sabotaged
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ur intepretation is as what a typical man during that period would think:"Why can't WE make a name of ourselves?" But the fact is, making a name for themselves at whose expense? It is actually at GOD's expense.
Your reaction is similiar to those ungodly man who think they can control their own destiny.
From the texts, u can see men always emphasized abt "us...us...us...us...us". They totally exclude GOD from the relationship. Is this a positive way to tell their parents (GOD) that they have become stronger and successful? On the contrary, they are behaving like spoilt brats wanting to reach the heavens, when in the first place they know they have sinned and the reason they are still united is GOD's grace upon them.
If they would have kept their faith in GOD, they would have not been disunited. It is very clear that their fear of being scattered is based on their own presumption.
If they have kept their faith in GOD, they would have entered heaven by GOD's grace. By building a symbol of defiance, they suffer the consequence of their own actions. -
ur intepretation is as what a typical man during that period would think:"Why can't WE make a name of ourselves?" But the fact is, making a name for themselves at whose expense? It is actually at GOD's expense.
Then malaysian is gonna be finished for building the twin towers. The chinese are cursed for building the great wall. Italy is gone for making the leaning tower of pisa. Wat is the purpose of making these monuments ? SImply makign a name for themselves. At whose expense, NOBODY ! Building a tower is a simply thing and no one lose out ! Why is it at god expense ? He pay for the construction fee ?From the texts, u can see men always emphasized abt "us...us...us...us...us". They totally exclude GOD from the relationship. Is this a positive way to tell their parents (GOD) that they have become stronger and successful? On the contrary, they are behaving like spoilt brats wanting to reach the heavens, when in the first place they know they have sinned and the reason they are still united is GOD's grace upon them.
Wait a minute, don't tell me u don't use the words "us" ? Why can't "us" include god into the picture ? As said before, if your father retire as a sergeant and u join in the police as an inspector, does he become jealous and find ways to make u fail and become a corporeal ? Is joining as an inspector "the actions of a spilt brat wanting to reach heaven" ? U can never become better than your parents ? Where does the sin comes in ? IS becoming better a sin ? If we canot be better than our parents, then society will never progress ! God grace ? Where ? The part where men become seperated and confused and wage wars among themselves ?If they would have kept their faith in GOD, they would have not been disunited. It is super clear that their fear of being scattered is based on their own presumption.
Tat is very very strange. So just because they do not want to be scattered they have sinned ? Then u should not live in a house. Why ? because it shows super clearly tat u r afraid of the weather and elements. Tis is your own presumption too isn't it ? U should not eat as well. Why ? because it super clearly show u r scared of dying of hunger. U should not see a doctor as well. Why ? Because it super clearly show u r scared of death. Why save money ? U should donate every single cent right ? R u scared u wil not have money whenu need them later ? They r all your presumptions right ? Where is your faith in god ? Where do u keep them ? God do all the spoonfeeding for u isn't it ?If they have kept their faith in GOD, they would have entered heaven by GOD's grace. By building a symbol of defiance, they suffer the consequence of their own actions.
Where does it says the tower is a symbol of defiance ? -
nai nai de .. how come SIS is back in full swing?
He is a big liar!
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Ya ya ya... liar liar pants on fire
u can call me troll, or liar, or mean if u want. They only made me determined to come back all the more.
Seriously I literally mean it -
nai nai de .. i actually wanted to start a topic to support some of your argument .. now I think you are not worth my time and effort.
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nai nai de .. i actually wanted to start a topic to support some of your argument .. now I think you are not worth my time and effort.
Well, I don't really see anything wrong with my post since perhaps for many times people has indeed been sort of making fun of me during my absent here. Either I misinteprete it or something but it appears to be an attempt to make me feel unwelcome or chase me away or something. If u feel tat I am such an a$$ then I have nothing to say -
[quoted by stupidissmart]Then malaysian is gonna be finished for building the twin towers. The chinese are cursed for building the great wall. Italy is gone for making the leaning tower of pisa. Wat is the purpose of making these monuments ? SImply makign a name for themselves. At whose expense, NOBODY ! Building a tower is a simply thing and no one lose out ! Why is it at god expense ? He pay for the construction fee ?
Wait a minute, don't tell me u don't use the words "us" ? Why can't "us" include god into the picture ? As said before, if your father retire as a sergeant and u join in the police as an inspector, does he become jealous and find ways to make u fail and become a corporeal ? Is joining as an inspector "the actions of a spilt brat wanting to reach heaven" ? U can never become better than your parents ? Where does the sin comes in ? IS becoming better a sin ? If we canot be better than our parents, then society will never progress ! God grace ? Where ? The part where men become seperated and confused and wage wars among themselves ?
Tat is very very strange. So just because they do not want to be scattered they have sinned ? Then u should not live in a house. Why ? because it shows super clearly tat u r afraid of the weather and elements. Tis is your own presumption too isn't it ? U should not eat as well. Why ? because it super clearly show u r scared of dying of hunger. U should not see a doctor as well. Why ? Because it super clearly show u r scared of death. Why save money ? U should donate every single cent right ? R u scared u wil not have money whenu need them later ? They r all your presumptions right ? Where is your faith in god ? Where do u keep them ? God do all the spoonfeeding for u isn't it ?
Where does it says the tower is a symbol of defiance ?
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It is bad comparison of all the monuments u mentioned with the tower of babel. Simply no link. The purposes to build these monuments is completely different from construcing the tower of babel, which was clearly men wanted to control their own destiny to challenge GOD's sovereignty.
U are deeply mistaken. The 'us' uttered by men never included GOD into the relationship. "Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly." And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." All this 'us' are referring to men only. They want to "make a name" for themselves for who to see? It's for GOD.
It was Men who thought they would be scattered, even though they had unity in the first place. But they used it for evil and was thus scattered as a consequence/punishment.
The last paragraph I have no idea what u are talking. Mebbe u can explain in simpler terms. -
We all love you SIS, you know we do, especially the xtians here. Some of them might be praying for you also.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u feel tat I am such an a$$ then I have nothing to say
SIS, sometimes I feel that you have quite valid points but they are not well presented. For one, you ask too many rhetorical questions, quite irritating, also they give pple the impression you can't elaborate well.
And you should keep your replies short .. why write so long? You just reiterate the same points and make pple more irritated.
Some forummers give quite good replies. Try to learn from plo30360, too bad he hasn't been active lately ..
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It is bad comparison of all the monuments u mentioned with the tower of babel. Simply no link. The purposes to build these monuments is completely different from construcing the tower of babel, which was clearly men wanted to control their own destiny to challenge GOD's sovereignty.
Why no link ? In fact I see no link with u saying tat the tower of bable is to defy god. Where in the bible did they say tat ? Building the tower of babel is a sign tat men wanted to control their own destiny while building the twin tower is not ?U are deeply mistaken. The 'us' uttered by men never included GOD into the relationship. "Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly." And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." All this 'us' are referring to men only. They want to "make a name" for themselves for who to see? It's for GOD.
"Us" never include god... and.... so ? R u telling me tat because men want to build a tower by themselves, god didn't get their attention because they r busy and he is pissed because of tat ? U r really making god sound more petty and attention seeking than ever ! They never defy god, they never break any of his rules and they get punished for working together ? Frankly the malaysian or the other peopel who built their monument probably do not link god into the picture as well. SO they r sinful and deserve a great punishment ?
Make a name for themselves... Don't u wanna make a name for yourself ? U want to be an unknown person who never contribute anything to society and noone remember u when u r gone ? They can make it for their decendents to see as stated before. They wanted to be remembered by their decendents. Is tat wrong ?It was Men who thought they would be scattered, even though they had unity in the first place. But they used it for evil and was thus scattered as a consequence/punishment.
Evil ? building a mere tower is evil ? Wow man, then malaysian, chinese, italian and perhaps your hdb builder r all evil when they build these structures. God never promise them tat they would not be scatter. They just build a tower to gatherd together and tat is evil and wrong ? Why do u visit the doctor ? Maybe u just thought u had sickness even though u might be healthy all along. Why do u save money in the bank ? U should donate all of them because u may never need money urgently ? As said before, why do u think god had to spoonfeed us by protecting us from everything ? Why shouldn't u do the protection yourself ? Why depend on god to keep yourself from scattering when u should really work and try to find ways to be united. Why depend on god to heal your sickness when u should really be helping yourself by seeing a doctor. WHy should u depend on god to keep finding means to find money for u when u should really be started good habbits of saving money. U really stated a very weak argument here.Where does it says the tower is a symbol of defiance ?
I see the passage and there is NOTHING in there tat says they r building the tower for defying god. But u interprete it as such and I am extremely puzled by tis -
We all love you SIS, you know we do, especially the xtians here. Some of them might be praying for you also.
yayaya i believe u
I write long because I want to elaborate on them
SIS, sometimes I feel that you have quite valid points but they are not well presented. For one, you ask too many rhetorical questions, quite irritating, also they give pple the impression you can't elaborate well.
And you should keep your replies short .. why write so long? You just reiterate the same points and make pple more irritated.
Some forummers give quite good replies. Try to learn from plo30360, too bad he hasn't been active lately ..
EVen though they r same points, but they r really answering the same question isn't it ? If they ask the same question 100 times, does it means I have to come out with 100 creative answers ? -
double
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Rubbish .. you call that elaboration? You go and count how many question marks you have in your replies.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I write long because I want to elaborate on them EVen though they r same points, but they r really answering the same question isn't it ? If they ask the same question 100 times, does it means I have to come out with 100 creative answers ? 
Aiyah .. follow my advice lah .. the way you are doing it .. you're just pissing pple off .. even uncle eng can't be bothered with you liao
SIS .. a good reply is like a sharp needle or good sword .. one cut and you see blood from your opponent. Now your sword is, unfortunately, blunt liao. Go and sharpen it .. go! go! -
I get this idea Icemoon here likes to hear questions and answer sessions that validates her points. Your only fault is that you are not doing that.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I write long because I want to elaborate on them EVen though they r same points, but they r really answering the same question isn't it ? If they ask the same question 100 times, does it means I have to come out with 100 creative answers ?
The choice is really yours, and I know you made that choice like a man.
I hope you are male though....or the last sentence would sound really inappropriate.
BTW, you don't wear glasses, do you?] -
ni nai nai de .. what does this lanjiao crosshair have against me?
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Let us detract.
The idea of a forum is for the healthy excercise of the mind. It is a platform for various exchange of ideas. It is an avenue to make sharing of opinions faster, more widespread, and with more clarity.
As with every new thing that is introduced, it gets misused. It has become another classroom for little opposing groups to form, so that they can claim to be the most happening group to be in. "The other group is never as cool".
Once you are in that group, you will never want out. Favourite pastimes include undermining the opinions of others, dismissing their questions and answers as irrelevant, not because they are, but because they are too hard to understand, and the dinner you just took is not enough to fuel your brain cells to get to work.
The addicted stay and prosper in there, looking for the next "fix". The "fix" goes in, gets pushed around, and wonder why there are addicts. The enlightened walk in, pass through, and walks out like it is a marketplace where addicts peddle their fix and beckons passersby to join in the foray.
The addicts appear to see it as some kind of higher calling. Why? Because if it makes them feel good, it cannot be wrong.
Or can it? -
To quote from your other thread, "Hate the sin, not the sinner."Originally posted by Icemoon:ni nai nai de .. what does this lanjiao crosshair have against me?
Are you living up to that self-expectation, or are you leaving it to a non-believer to remind you? -
He is a non-believer in christ, but a monotheist.Originally posted by crosshairs:To quote from your other thread, "Hate the sin, not the sinner."
Are you living up to that self-expectation, or are you leaving it to a non-believer to remind you? -
I hope you are male though....or the last sentence would sound really inappropriate.
BTW, you don't wear glasses, do you?]
Bingo ! All correct -
oooi.. no bad words lahOriginally posted by Icemoon:ni nai nai de .. what does this lanjiao crosshair have against me? -
Hi Crosshair,Originally posted by crosshairs:The addicts appear to see it as some kind of higher calling. Why? Because if it makes them feel good, it cannot be wrong.
Or can it?
(If) the addicts u are refering to Christians, I disagree with u. I do not think all become Christians becoz of a feel good factor. Though Christians evangelise, it is the individual that benefit from it should he want to listen. It is our duty to preach, but we do not gain any merits or favours with GOD even if we convert thousands.
Each has his own views. But as this is a Christian forum, it is necessary for Christians to state clearly what he believes. There can be no 'can it be' 'can it be not' in Christian faith. If one doubt the inerrancy of the word, there is no basis for his faith. For yourself, is your view that nothing is right and wrong in this world? Is it really true that nothing is certain? U would probably have to reflect on what ur beliefs are for sure.
Many Christians, esp born-again (sorry for this word i know it may appear to some as arrogant) christians went thru a lot of tribulations/persecutions in life before we were converted. Like you, we also went thru a long period of 'can it be', 'can it be not', becoz i myself is by nature a skeptic. Like you, I also doubted the inerrancy of the word last time. I even seen Jesus as a fraud b4 I really believed in the word.
We may share with pple our testimonies, knowing that skeptics may dismiss them as nonsense, but it really is what we went thru. I just hope that u can have ur own experience and, if u decided u can listen, build on faith on ur own.
It is easy to be skeptic, but difficult to build on one's faith. For me it is definitely not a feel-good factor or 'fren-fren' that's why I was converted.
I was humbled. That's why I believe.
I believe, not becoz i can go to a concert-like worship service and feel good with the others. I have tried that, but after I left I forgot about GOD and went shopping and makaning happily... -
If I am not wrong, the addicts he mentioned means people who r addicted to forums, not christians
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then u are big addict...i small addict......thought u say sep then come back?Originally posted by stupidissmart:If I am not wrong, the addicts he mentioned means people who r addicted to forums, not christians -
Stupidissmart, I don't know for how long I can read you, but as long as I think I read you correct, I hope I can present you with a very valuable gift. You may find it useless, but that's OK.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If I am not wrong, the addicts he mentioned means people who r addicted to forums, not christians
When you have had your fun, Get out of here. You can come back for visits occassionally. Many "people" you talk to here drain you. Slowly but surely. Find some other things to do online. Or take a break from talking to them for a few weeks. You will notice a difference in your energy level.
Remember, most of these people are here to help themselves, not you. You are capable of so much more than them. And you know that.
Thank you, goodnight. -
Sorry to intrude, but i think the person tired is u, not SIS.Originally posted by crosshairs:Stupidissmart, I don't know for how long I can read you, but as long as I think I read you correct, I hope I can present you with a very valuable gift. You may find it useless, but that's OK.
When you have had your fun, Get out of here. You can come back for visits occassionally. Many "people" you talk to here drain you. Slowly but surely. Find some other things to do online. Or take a break from talking to them for a few weeks. You will notice a difference in your energy level.
Remember, most of these people are here to help themselves, not you. You are capable of so much more than them. And you know that.
Thank you, goodnight.
I too, have suffered my heartaches, fatigue and disillusion discussing with some of the pple here. My intention was never to argue for the sake of arguing, but show to them GOD loves them, so that if they can listen they too can be saved.
Sometimes i wonder whether this is a futile attempt. As much as u think we are here to help ourselves, I wonder why men simply refuse to believe by remaining skeptical always, even though the goodness of GOD/the positive sides of the faith have been shown to them. Is this really men's rebellious nature that leads them to separation from GOD?
I still choose to believe SIS and many others here are good persons, and one day their misconceptions of the faith will too be cleared. I can see that SIS is a good person as he did not want Christians to be misled by false teachings.
If u are not seeking GOD earnestly, I believe u will not be here too. I dun think u are just looking for any 'fun' here do u?
I too, am very tired. But I tell myself life goes on. For many Christians here, we can only show u GOD's message. But it is only up to individuals who want to listen or not.
I was a non-believer too and I too did not like the idea of pple preaching to me in a "i am more holier than u" attitude.
If I have given pple the impression that I myself have done that, I apologise and I will reflect on my own mistakes.
It works both ways. i believe believers also do not like their faith to be put down.
It is always easier to condemn than to say 'sorry'......
For EH to be active again, we need all the forumers to continue posting. This means that there must be good discussions that attract pple to post more, not ones that put pple off and make them tired.
I am sorry i sound like the MOD, but i really do hope EH can make it back to the top forums again. More can be attracted to come here and hear the word when EH is in the tops.
One should always make more frens here, not enemies. It is simply not worth it to get one's blood level raise by 20 degrees when we take offend at the slightest comments and start throwing accusations at each other. If u dun agree with me, it is ok, we still can be friends and have a cup of tea. -
Originally posted by crosshairs:
I think you can save your gift for yourself.
[b]Stupidissmart, I don't know for how long I can read you, but as long as I think I read you correct, I hope I can present you with a very valuable gift. You may find it useless, but that's OK.
b]
SIS does not even chap your good advice for him.