is homosexuality OK according to christianity?
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sure .. there is always a possibility I am unclear .. sorry abt that.Originally posted by laoda99:sorry...can u put ur qn again in simpler terms?You are still skipping the issue.
I never say they contradict, but why, if the Counsellor is there, they take so long to sort it out? There has been much argument going on since the Reformation.
I don't see the guidance at all. -
use your brain use your brain .. aiyoh ..
everyone on the mountain including his disciples.
may i ask who was the audience Jesus was speaking to?
He also spoke a lot about other things there and if tis is only for jews, then everything he said there r for jews. In fact a lot of his actions and deeds r only toward jews -
Correct! Jesus was indeed speaking to the Jews, but that doesn't mean everything he said are for Jewish ears only. Some things are universal, like the beatitudes.Originally posted by stupidissmart:He also spoke a lot about other things there and if tis is only for jews, then everything he said r for jews. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
i understand ur point. This were my doubts also. I believe we have a counsellor in the Holy Spirit, but men chose pride and ego over faith in GOD....
I never say they contradict, but why, if the Counsellor is there, they take so long to sort it out? There has been much argument going on since the Reformation.
I don't see the guidance at all.
Had a good discussion with my bible study teacher. If we are going to focus on the wrongs of men, we are going to lose focus on GOD. Saints, reformers...they are all human....prone to errors and over zealousness...
sometimes i wonder why muslims can stand fast to their faith...christians lose focus easily when someone mention abt crusades, inquistions....but muslims do not lose faith over the wars between the shia and sunnis, becoz they believe in one perfect sovereign god who is in total control.
this is one good point we can learn from them = believing GOD is always in control, and he will show to u that he is. -
Correct! Jesus was indeed speaking to the Jews, but that doesn't mean everything he said are for Jewish ears only. Some things are universal, like the beatitudes.
Huh ?!?! A lot of his actions r toward jews only since they r the religion of the people then. In tat case Christ should only be worship by jews and no other Why is things such as beatitudes universal while OT r not ? If OT is universal, all things he said then r universal. If the OT comments is only for Jews, then things such as the beatitudes r only for jews themselves. U can't just mixed and match the things u like 
Is his disciples also jew then ? There r also there on the mountains -
My understanding of sacraments is definitely not the same as u, bro...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I will give you the marks for the two paragraphs. As for the third one, I'd like to question your understanding of sacraments.
But i do not think this is going to stop catholics/christians from understanding each other's faith
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The truth is, you are in no position to say that it is wrong.Originally posted by Icemoon:I also believe homosexuality is not very right, unless research is able to show conclusively it is predetermined, ie. genetic factors involved, then I may reconsider.
Actually if you think it this way, pple just wun see why it is wrong UNLESS they know God and understand we shouldnt do anything that is against His will. If you love Him, follow His commandments.
All sins have a consequence. If homosexuality is really a sin, it is just matter of time before the world sees its consequence.
The truth is, being in your faith, given the choice between science and religion, you will choose the latter. Therefore, contrary to your statement, even when science conclusively shows that homosexuality is a predetermined trait, you are bound by your religious beliefs not to accept it.
The truth is, Christianity does not condone homosexuality, and in that view, whatever lust for the opposite sex that lay in the hearts of some men, when compared to the seemingly subtle affection one may have for the same sex, is like an ant compared to a mammoth.
The truth is, women carrying Y-chromosones walk the earth, and according to your beliefs, they too are created perfect. Or are they? What would you say to them? Would you apply the scientific understanding of the phenomena, or the religious contradiction that they too are perfect?
The truth is, if you have not been there or near, it is better to understand before you condemn.
Try asking yourself: if your child turned out to be homosexual, would you say it is through his or her fault, or would you say it is yours, because you are bound by your faith not to accept him or her for who he or she is?
Are you homophobic? Do you have friends who are homosexuals? Do you accepth them as your friends, or subjects of constant ridicule?
Do you occassionally ask yourself these questions, or accept whatever is thrown to you, and take it as though you have given it much thought? Better yet, just agree with the majority and, be "cool"?
Or do you donate to NKF, like how sharon au would like you to, by crying several times on nationaly TV? -
Neither are you in a position to say it is right.Originally posted by crosshairs:The truth is, you are in no position to say that it is wrong.
I mean, if you agree with me, there are right things and wrong things and you are in no position to say it is right either.The truth is, being in your faith, given the choice between science and religion, you will choose the latter. Therefore, contrary to your statement, even when science conclusively shows that homosexuality is a predetermined trait, you are bound by your religious beliefs not to accept it.
Then i will change my belief and accept my interpretation of Scripture is wrong or lacking.The truth is, women carrying Y-chromosones walk the earth, and according to your beliefs, they too are created perfect. Or are they? What would you say to them? Would you apply the scientific understanding of the phenomena, or the religious contradiction that they too are perfect?
erm, what are you trying to say here?The truth is, if you have not been there or near, it is better to understand before you condemn.
The truth is, if you not really understand God's word, then it is better to understand Scripture before you condemn.Try asking yourself: if your child turned out to be homosexual, would you say it is through his or her fault, or would you say it is yours, because you are bound by your faith not to accept him or her for who he or she is?
I asked myself liao. I still come to the conclusion a child cannot be homosexual from birth. Well, prove me wrong?Are you homophobic? Do you have friends who are homosexuals? Do you accepth them as your friends, or subjects of constant ridicule?
Why are you asking this question? Didn't we all iterate to hate the sin but not the sinner?Do you occassionally ask yourself these questions, or accept whatever is thrown to you, and take it as though you have given it much thought? Better yet, just agree with the majority and, be "cool"?
Oh thank you, at least you agree I am with the majority.
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Aiyah .. at least for now our law says it is wrong lah.Originally posted by crosshairs:The truth is, you are in no position to say that it is wrong.
Happy with the answer?
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This is a subset superset problem. You go figure.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why is things such as beatitudes universal while OT r not ? If OT is universal, all things he said then r universal. If the OT comments is only for Jews, then things such as the beatitudes r only for jews themselves. U can't just mixed and match the things u like -
I never concluded I was right. BTW I never mentioned that I agreed with you either.........................OK, You can try to figure that outOriginally posted by Icemoon:Neither are you in a position to say it is right.
I mean, if you agree with me, there are right things and wrong things and you are in no position to say it is right either.
Change your belief......Wow.Originally posted by Icemoon:Then i will change my belief and accept my interpretation of Scripture is wrong or lacking.
That you don't have a clue to the definition of a male and a female?Originally posted by Icemoon:erm, what are you trying to say here?
Erm........I don't believe in creationism. And I am not the one doing the comndemning.Originally posted by Icemoon:The truth is, if you not really understand God's word, then it is better to understand Scripture before you condemn.
You have already come to a conclusion. Screw science! Right? OK I got your answer to my second paragraph. I'm happy, are you? Good.Originally posted by Icemoon:I asked myself liao. I still come to the conclusion a child cannot be homosexual from birth. Well, prove me wrong?
You have concluded that they are wrong. Again, this validates my second paragraph.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why are you asking this question? Didn't we all iterate to hate the sin but not the sinner?
And you shall always be part of the majority. Forever. Have fun. -
This is a subset superset problem. You go figure
Aiyoh com'on lah... u know tis is not even a proper answer on the question I ask -
As discussed earlier in the other replies, Christians dun condemn homosexuals. It is the sin of homosexuality that we do not agree with.Originally posted by crosshairs:The truth is, you are in no position to say that it is wrong.
The truth is, being in your faith, given the choice between science and religion, you will choose the latter. Therefore, contrary to your statement, even when science conclusively shows that homosexuality is a predetermined trait, you are bound by your religious beliefs not to accept it.
The truth is, Christianity does not condone homosexuality, and in that view, whatever lust for the opposite sex that lay in the hearts of some men, when compared to the seemingly subtle affection one may have for the same sex, is like an ant compared to a mammoth.
Try asking yourself: if your child turned out to be homosexual, would you say it is through his or her fault, or would you say it is yours, because you are bound by your faith not to accept him or her for who he or she is?
Are you homophobic? Do you have friends who are homosexuals? Do you accepth them as your friends, or subjects of constant ridicule?
Do you occassionally ask yourself these questions, or accept whatever is thrown to you, and take it as though you have given it much thought? Better yet, just agree with the majority and, be "cool"?
U are right in saying that Christianity do not condone homosexuality, but neither does GOD condemn homosexuals when he had given us Christ.
He loves each individual as his children.
If one knows that GOD is forgiving, he should also know that GOD is Just and
cannot stand sin. For this matter, for myself I would prefer to let GOD judge for himself, becoz afterall, he is Just. Afterall, one is accountable to GOD himself at the end of the day.
What I believe: If one knows that he is sinning against GOD, he should repent instead of convincing himself that it is ok to sin becoz everyone else is sinning. I am not talking specifically abt the sin of homosexuality, but other sins as well.
For myself, I am not homophobic. I have several friends who are homosexuals and transgendered pple. My homosexual friends are well-educated individuals with stable income; Some are self-professed christians, know it is sinful but just do not want to stop. Whenever they see someone 'cute', they just cannot resist the temptation.
My transgendered frens lived upside-down lives and numb themselves in drugs and sex. They are quite pitiful as all their only aim in life is to earn $$$ to finance their sex operation and lifestyle.
I do not believe in condemning homosexuals. They are individuals who needed help most, not rejection. Irregardless of Christianity, I do not believe our society and culture, esp chinese culture condone homosexuality. But we know that GOD is a loving GOD and Christ dies for all sins. We should always emulate Christ's love for them and try to bring them back to reality. -
The problem I have is not arguing if homosexuality is sin or not. The answer is obvious.Originally posted by laoda99:As discussed earlier in the other replies, Christians dun condemn homosexuals. It is the sin of homosexuality that we do not agree with.
U are right in saying that Christianity do not condone homosexuality, but neither does GOD condemn homosexuals when he had given us Christ.
He loves each individual as his children.
If one knows that GOD is forgiving, he should also know that GOD is Just and
cannot stand sin. For this matter, for myself I would prefer to let GOD judge for himself, becoz afterall, he is Just. Afterall, one is accountable to GOD himself at the end of the day.
What I believe: If one knows that he is sinning against GOD, he should repent instead of convincing himself that it is ok to sin becoz everyone else is sinning. I am not talking specifically abt the sin of homosexuality, but other sins as well.
For myself, I am not homophobic. I have several friends who are homosexuals and transgendered pple. My homosexual friends are well-educated individuals with stable income; Some are self-professed christians, know it is sinful but just do not want to stop. Whenever they see someone 'cute', they just cannot resist the temptation.
My transgendered frens lived upside-down lives and numb themselves in drugs and sex. They are quite pitiful as all their only aim in life is to earn $$$ to finance their sex operation and lifestyle.
I do not believe in condemning homosexuals. They are individuals who needed help most, not rejection. Irregardless of Christianity, I do not believe our society and culture, esp chinese culture condone homosexuality. But we know that GOD is a loving GOD and Christ dies for all sins. We should always emulate Christ's love for them and try to bring them back to reality.
Back to the thread starter question.
My problem is, the inappropriate usage of scriptures was used on this sensitive topic.
By unappropriate usage, i mean the stand in Christianity though stays the same.
However the usage of scriptures is too sensitive to make it stand.
Refer to my earliest msg?
If i were to draw out scriptural verses (on Leviticus and Deuteronomy mainly) to counter question on the relevancy of scripture on this issue. The bible scriptures must stand. We will have a Word war. (Which SIS did already, his question against the verses I thought, is very valid. But in the wrong thread.)Originally posted by M©+square:It's all about acceptance.
There are many practices in church which changed due to modern era.
So why should this issue stick so closely to the word?
To me, homosexuality does not hurt God, more so as the children of God using the word and creating their own standards by emphasizing the verses which they interpret - selective quoting/preaching.
My conclusion: Homosexuality is sin, but do we accept homosexuals and their habits in church? Leave the love the sinner and hate the sin aside. Think carefully on what was taught in the bible about Love.
Christianity is personal. God's Love is personal as well.
The spiritual encounter is personal.
Since it was claimed that Christianity is a relationship, not a religion.
Let's not 'speak for God' and claim the bible.
Personally, I never believe in that any Christians should stand up and speak up for the word, when has the word of God needed any one to speak for anyway?
We are not perfect. We could only be perfect because of Christ became our sacrifice hence Christians can have a relationship with God.
Homosexuals have their own experience with God as much as you do. They might have excellent qualities attributed from the Holy Spirit more than thestraights
I dont know a lot bout homosexuals, but I know Christians should deliver a message. The message of the Old Rugged Cross.
Since we are not perfect. Lets remember Gods grace is to all.
Cheers -
amen..Originally posted by M©+square:Since we are not perfect. Lets remember Gods grace is to all.
Cheers -
If you have no conviction to say you are right and you are so sure I'm wrong, then what are you? Sitting on the fence? In that case, you have no right to even criticise cos you dun have a stand.Originally posted by crosshairs:I never concluded I was right. BTW I never mentioned that I agreed with you either.........................OK, You can try to figure that out
If you dun agree, then it means we have no grounds for discussion.Change your belief......Wow.
Well, if science shows that the sun is in the centre, what can Christians say?That you don't have a clue to the definition of a male and a female?
why do you say that?Erm........I don't believe in creationism. And I am not the one doing the comndemning.
I tell you to understand Scripture, never ask you to believe it.
Wow .. now you shrink responsibility and say you not the one comdemning?You have already come to a conclusion. Screw science! Right? OK I got your answer to my second paragraph. I'm happy, are you? Good.
It has not been shown science has made a mistake, screw science for what?You have concluded that they are wrong. Again, this validates my second paragraph.
Who are "they"? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Aiyoh com'on lah... u know tis is not even a proper answer on the question I ask
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Forget it Stupisissmart.....it's not because ICEMOON here doesn't understand our questions (I hope he actually does, hahahah). It's because he must not show that he understood them. Or else....Originally posted by stupidissmart:Aiyoh com'on lah... u know tis is not even a proper answer on the question I ask
If someone cannot get to the point of a discussion and chooses instead to sidestep your questions, you know it's time to stop asking. -
Still waiting.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I will get back to you on this topic soon. Be patient my friend.
please reply when you're coming out with it. -
erm u talk so much also haven't ans my reply?Originally posted by crosshairs:Forget it Stupisissmart.....it's not because ICEMOON here doesn't understand our questions (I hope he actually does, hahahah). It's because he must not show that he understood them. Or else....
the pot calling the kettle black? -
I also haven't got my reply.
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And they also often resort to using smileys excessively......Originally posted by Icemoon:erm u talk so much also haven't ans my reply?
the pot calling the kettle black?
Icemoon, I thought I was clear enough, but it seems with your limited understanding of my hints, I regretably have to put it directly to you...........
------I had previously intended to cease communicating with you because you already assumed you were right on every count and it would be pointless to carry on.---------- -
what a good excuse .. thanks I never thought of that.Originally posted by crosshairs:------I had previously intended to cease communicating with you because you already assumed you were right on every count and it would be pointless to carry on.----------
gotta use it on my next opponent. -
The homosexual issue in the church is regrettable. These individuals are as much living under grace like everyone of us. If not, GOD would have punished them like in the olden times. GOD no longer held our sins against us, including the sin of homosexuality. When sin is abound, grace is much more abound.
However, this goes back to our question: do pple have the license to live a life of careless conduct? This applies to everyone, including homosexuals.
Ponder about it -
This only could be answered if you explain your stand on this verse 'When sin is abound, grace is much more abound.'Originally posted by laoda99:The homosexual issue in the church is regrettable. These individuals are as much living under grace like everyone of us. If not, GOD would have punished them like in the olden times. GOD no longer held our sins against us, including the sin of homosexuality. When sin is abound, grace is much more abound.
However, this goes back to our question: do pple have the license to live a life of careless conduct? This applies to everyone, including homosexuals.
Ponder about it
Cheers