To follow or not to follow the law?

• stupidissmart

  31 Aug 05, 10:50

  The questions you asked was not a logical question. God had a choice right? Moreover Scripture also never claim your body suddenly transformed when you receive salvation. So what you suggested are just your fantasy.

  Choice over whether should we be punished ? If we r forgiven and cleanse, the punishment should ceased. If the effect is not instantaneous, then it really meant the above 2 conclusions. Either god has not totally forgiven us or he is powerless to change the fact. Instead of telling me if these 2 conclusions r wrong or coming up with a third scenario, u really just beat around the bush and never really try answering the question
  
  

  You sounds quite contradictory with your words in bold - which strongly suggest people receive salvation (get bitten in your analogy) to live forever. Actually, when you receive Christ, you have your salvation. You don't go church and tithe your whole life to seek your salvation. You should already be a Christian before you do those things (tithe, Lord's Supper etc.). So your argument here is not correct.

  Tat depends on wat form of christainity u believe in. There r many people who believes tat just faith in christ is not important, but acts such as tilthing or refrain from sins etc is important in salvation too. Otherwise it really become a religion tat allows people to sin as much as they want and still get probably the best final outcome. Or u do not believe in me and want me to quote from many websites tat tells people not to sin to get eternal life ?
  
  

  Nope. The one that is emphasized is Jesus Christ. The sentence starts with "God so loved the world". Interestingly eternal life are the last two words - after the words God, loved, Son, believes

  Whoever says tat the first few words of a sentence meant it is more important The sentence emphasis tat the whole idea of sending the son is for men to receive eternal life, and as such it really meant tat believing in christ is for eternal life. The objective of sending christ is mentioned and it is to give people eternal life.
  
  

  The origin of the website is dubious. Don't think is Christian website. 'cos the website actually wrote "In Search of Heaven, the Eternal Life" is a universal book for all people of all faiths around the world; whether you're Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Catholic, Mormon, Jew, Atheist, or alike, it does not matter for we all belong to the same family of man, and thus are all created equal."

  I had pasted 2 sites and u only answer one of them. So the other one u have nothing to say about it ? If tat is the case, here is more examples from, christian websites
  
  http://www.bibletexts.com/glossary/eternal-life.htm
  Afterlife and eternal life become an essential part of Christian preaching in virtue of JesusÂ’ resurrection from the dead
  
  

  So is God loving the world or not? make up your mind leh .. haha

  According to bible, it says it love the world. For men, whether he loves the world or not, IMO, is really not a significant moltivation for men to sacrifice so much time, money and effort to believe in christianity. He loves me, SO ? Love shouldn't expect things back in return. It is the idea of eternal life tat make people waste all these resources
  
  

  Don't think you are suitable to comment the reason for people accepting Christ. First, obviously you not been to church often, not hearing many testimonies, and you don't share fundamental assumptions with the Christians.

  U r still avoiding the question Instead of asking these irrelevant questions, why not u come out and tell me straight in the face tat I am wrong about the fact tat there r many christians tat believes to get eternal life. U r really distracting people from the main point tat a portion, if not a majority portion of christians believe just to get salvation. Since u r so qualified, then u swear upon your own integrity and honour tat there r really very insignificant people tat believes in christianity for eternal life. Otherwise everyone will know why u refuse to answer it.
  
  

  Yah .. you can keep that as your own [misguided] opinion .. thank you.

  Yah.. u can live in self denial if u want I do't even know who u r trying to convince with such weak arguments
• sillyme

  5 Sep 05, 16:00

  Originally posted by Icemoon:

  dunno leh .. how many testimonies you hear are like that? See your goody goody friend or neighbour then you start asking questions?
  
  i always tot most are proactive approach. Someone tells you the word of God or you chanced to read the bible that kind of thing ..

  I guess most will choose the proactive approach but it's also hard to be proactive and on the other hand be sensitive not to be seen as aggressive.
  
  i think the key in both approach is to establish a trust first?
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 18:08

  Originally posted by sillyme:

  I guess most will choose the proactive approach but it's also hard to be proactive and on the other hand be sensitive not to be seen as aggressive.
  
  i think the key in both approach is to establish a trust first?

  i would have to agree with this... over zealous evangelising sometimes turn people away ... i've seen many cases whereby ... u say u are Christian and people will go 'arghz'
  
  
  
  oh well...
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 18:23

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  i would have to agree with this... over zealous evangelising sometimes turn people away ... i've seen many cases whereby ... u say u are Christian and people will go 'arghz'
  
  
  
  oh well...

  Ya, I agree. They must have some bad experience with some of us. I think why this over zealous thingy is because they want to demonstrate their faith to them, which obviously will scare some away. Maybe they never even thought of putting their faith in an invisible God who is unseen for the time being. Maybe the idea of the Christian's faith does not make sense to them. They want proofs, and more proofs which makes sense to them. Without studying and understanding the bible with a heart to find out more, I think they will not understand de.
  
  No no... pls pls, dun write nonsense pls.
• OrneryBoy

  5 Sep 05, 19:40

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  i would have to agree with this... over zealous evangelising sometimes turn people away ... i've seen many cases whereby ... u say u are Christian and people will go 'arghz'
  
  
  
  oh well...

  evangelism is one of the spiritual discipline...
  
  its the power of the gospel that God will work in their lives not our own strength. and we believers not only have to obey the commandments, we ought to live consecrated for our Lord Jesus Christ so that others may see transformations in our 'new life'.
• OrneryBoy

  5 Sep 05, 19:53

  Originally posted by jnwk:

  Ya, I agree. They must have some bad experience with some of us. I think why this over zealous thingy is because they want to demonstrate their faith to them, which obviously will scare some away. Maybe they never even thought of putting their faith in an invisible God who is unseen for the time being. Maybe the idea of the Christian's faith does not make sense to them. They want proofs, and more proofs which makes sense to them. Without studying and understanding the bible with a heart to find out more, I think they will not understand de.
  
  No no... pls pls, dun write nonsense pls.

  I have friends who ain't believers yet, and when they read the Bible and telling me they don't understand what is it trying to tell them, they are not convicted of their sinful nature.
  
  One friend shared with me the difference before and after she accepted Christ, she understands the Bible with the Holy Spirit guidance. Before she didn't.
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 20:46

  Originally posted by OrneryBoy:

  evangelism is one of the spiritual discipline...
  
  its the power of the gospel that God will work in their lives not our own strength. and we believers not only have to obey the commandments, we ought to live consecrated for our Lord Jesus Christ so that others may see transformations in our 'new life'.

  yup! i totally agree with this! its God working through us ... we always have to remember this. thats y we have to be exemplary role models and live our lives to be a good testimony of Christ
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 20:47

  Originally posted by OrneryBoy:

  I have friends who ain't believers yet, and when they read the Bible and telling me they don't understand what is it trying to tell them, they are not convicted of their sinful nature.
  
  One friend shared with me the difference before and after she accepted Christ, she understands the Bible with the Holy Spirit guidance. Before she didn't.

  yep! it falls down to 1 thing .. faith.
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 21:08

  Originally posted by OrneryBoy:

  I have friends who ain't believers yet, and when they read the Bible and telling me they don't understand what is it trying to tell them, they are not convicted of their sinful nature.
  
  One friend shared with me the difference before and after she accepted Christ, she understands the Bible with the Holy Spirit guidance. Before she didn't.

  Praise the Lord! God's Spirit is with them. Hallelujah!
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 21:12

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  yup! i totally agree with this! its God working through us ... we always have to remember this. thats y we have to be exemplary role models and live our lives to be a good testimony of Christ

  Sometimes the influence of the world can be very strong.... and we forget or ignore that we are God's ambassador ........
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 21:25

  Originally posted by jnwk:

  Sometimes the influence of the world can be very strong.... and we forget or ignore that we are God's ambassador ........

  nobody said being a Christian is gonna be a stroll in the park.
  
  sometimes i read the stories of the matyrs ... heart pain man
• OrneryBoy

  5 Sep 05, 21:43

  Originally posted by jnwk:

  Sometimes the influence of the world can be very strong.... and we forget or ignore that we are God's ambassador ........

  i remembered what my pastor told us, "do not let the world influence us, but influence the world."
  
  a paraphase of Romans 12:21, "Do not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good"
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 21:44

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  nobody said being a Christian is gonna be a stroll in the park.
  
  sometimes i read the stories of the matyrs ... heart pain man

  Ya, me too.
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 21:46

  Originally posted by OrneryBoy:

  i remembered what my pastor told us, "do not let the world influence us, but influence the world."
  
  a paraphase of Romans 12:21, "Do not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good"

  Yes.
• OrneryBoy

  5 Sep 05, 21:54

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  nobody said being a Christian is gonna be a stroll in the park.
  
  sometimes i read the stories of the matyrs ... heart pain man

  ya read one... "26 martyrs of Japan"
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 22:06

  i also visited those underground churches in China... really dark, humid, etc ... i'm so thankful that we have nice churches to worship in
• OrneryBoy

  5 Sep 05, 22:17

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  i also visited those underground churches in China... really dark, humid, etc ... i'm so thankful that we have nice churches to worship in

  Yeah His grace upon our nation!!
• jnwk

  5 Sep 05, 22:18

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  i also visited those underground churches in China... really dark, humid, etc ... i'm so thankful that we have nice churches to worship in

  Yes. Nice churches but christians take it for granted. If you could go and witness the worship service in China, you will know what I mean. (No. I din witness myself. I heard and read stories and stories ...... )
  
  The light of Gospel gonna penetrate into and fill China and India soon. May God be with the missionaries.
• ben1xy

  5 Sep 05, 22:35

  i actually am thinking of doing missionary work ... but i dunno whether i have what it takes though .... sighz
  
  anyway i'll have to complete my studies first ... will think abt it after that
• Icemoon

  6 Sep 05, 11:09

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:
  Choice over whether should we be punished ? If we r forgiven and cleanse, the punishment should ceased. If the effect is not instantaneous, then it really meant the above 2 conclusions. Either god has not totally forgiven us or he is powerless to change the fact. Instead of telling me if these 2 conclusions r wrong or coming up with a third scenario, u really just beat around the bush and never really try answering the question

  The penalty for sin is death. All of us have to die to pay for the sins in our lifetime. The imputation of Jesus' righteousness comes in handy when you stand before God during Judgement.
  
  

  Tat depends on wat form of christainity u believe in. There r many people who believes tat just faith in christ is not important, but acts such as tilthing or refrain from sins etc is important in salvation too. Otherwise it really become a religion tat allows people to sin as much as they want and still get probably the best final outcome. Or u do not believe in me and want me to quote from many websites tat tells people not to sin to get eternal life ?

  Faith in Christ is most important, but I never say other things are not important. Even Catholics stress on faith and work, but you seems to stress on work. So your description is not Christianity.
  
  

  Whoever says tat the first few words of a sentence meant it is more important The sentence emphasis tat the whole idea of sending the son is for men to receive eternal life, and as such it really meant tat believing in christ is for eternal life. The objective of sending christ is mentioned and it is to give people eternal life.

  And why did God send Christ so that people can get eternal life? 'cos HE LOVE THE WORLD.
  
  Also you contradict your earlier reply. You said faith in Christ not important. But this sentence says that faith is most important (whoever believes in him shall not die .. )
  
  

  I had pasted 2 sites and u only answer one of them. So the other one u have nothing to say about it ? If tat is the case, here is more examples from, christian websites

  I can't stand the fact you quoted from a dubious website. You always like to give examples. I never said eternal life is not important, but when xtians preach, there are some things more important. The potential xtian (still unbeliever) should be made to see certain things first, not the eternal life. So if a believer is too caught up with eternal life, then I say this is not good christian mentality.
  
  Even John the Baptist proclaimed, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand". This should be the way to preach. Make people see their sins, then tell them the love of God.
  
  

  According to bible, it says it love the world. For men, whether he loves the world or not, IMO, is really not a significant moltivation for men to sacrifice so much time, money and effort to believe in christianity. He loves me, SO ? Love shouldn't expect things back in return. It is the idea of eternal life tat make people waste all these resources

  Tell you also no use. How you respond depends largely on whether you love Him in the first place. For example, I am not your father's son, of course I don't love him as much as you do.
  
  

  U r still avoiding the question Instead of asking these irrelevant questions, why not u come out and tell me straight in the face tat I am wrong about the fact tat there r many christians tat believes to get eternal life. U r really distracting people from the main point tat a portion, if not a majority portion of christians believe just to get salvation. Since u r so qualified, then u swear upon your own integrity and honour tat there r really very insignificant people tat believes in christianity for eternal life. Otherwise everyone will know why u refuse to answer it.

  You can't even show me empirical evidence of your claims. I've shown you what you claimed is not proper xtian belief. Also I can't help if some very insignificant people want to think it the way you said - believe eternal life and forgot about sins, love of Christ etc.
• Icemoon

  6 Sep 05, 11:14

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  i actually am thinking of doing missionary work ... but i dunno whether i have what it takes though .... sighz

  Hmm .. lay Catholic doing missionary work? Is this very common? Need to get Vatican approval first right? Can't imagine they send someone to hide under the rice field to preach gospel leh.
• ben1xy

  6 Sep 05, 11:34

  Originally posted by Icemoon:

  Hmm .. lay Catholic doing missionary work? Is this very common? Need to get Vatican approval first right? Can't imagine they send someone to hide under the rice field to preach gospel leh.

  nah .. its not that hard.. some of my church mates are in the mission field as we speak... but it's not on the preaching side... but more on the serving aspects
• laurence82

  6 Sep 05, 14:25

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  nah .. its not that hard.. some of my church mates are in the mission field as we speak... but it's not on the preaching side... but more on the serving aspects

  I seen how Catholic priests get their training in Vatican
  
  Are you going along this line?
  
  
• ben1xy

  6 Sep 05, 17:19

  Originally posted by laurence82:

  I seen how Catholic priests get their training in Vatican
  
  Are you going along this line?
  
  

  me becoming a priest? my gf will kill me ah!!
  
  
• laurence82

  6 Sep 05, 18:37

  Originally posted by ben1xy:

  me becoming a priest? my gf will kill me ah!!
  
  

  oops
  
  anyway, i read a book, Protestant pastors who are already married and want to convert to Catholicism can do so, and need nto divorce...is this true?