To follow or not to follow the law?
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Can you tell me which verse about Jesus promising an instantaneous path to heaven?
Okie, I ca't seems to find it anymore but thenthe point tat god forgive us of our sins when jesus die is true isn't it ? The punishment is still with us now. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Okie, I ca't seems to find it anymore but thenthe point tat god forgive us of our sins when jesus die is true isn't it ? The punishment is still with us now.
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u really have a heart of stone, preferring to believe that GOD is still punishing u while in fact he is not even angry with u. Why are u so angry with GOD?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Okie, I ca't seems to find it anymore but thenthe point tat god forgive us of our sins when jesus die is true isn't it ? The punishment is still with us now.
"A new heart is what I need/Oh God, make it bleed" -- Ezekiel 36:26: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh." -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
With reference to your words in bold. Yes it is true, thanks for agreeing
Okie, I ca't seems to find it anymore but then the point tat god forgive us of our sins when jesus die is true isn't it ? The punishment is still with us now.
Jokes aside, yes the consequence of sin is still death. But with God's grace there is forgiveness.
p.s. you got to start using the bible as reference instead of the internet. Articles on the internet disappear through time -
Amen laoda99 ........amen...........Originally posted by laoda99:Think some of the pple here had asked whether we should follow the law since we have grace thru Christ. This is quite a touchy issue for a lot of people who like to question whether Christ had superceded and nullified all the laws in the OT.
My opinion is: When GOD has given us his grace thru Christ, Christ had fulfilled the law for us. The law is just a tool/benchmark for us, not a solution. Christ is the solution. We obey GOD's law not becoz we fear him, but out of love for him, becoz GOD so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believe in him should not perish but have ever lasting life.
I believe anyone who loves GOD would not find himself troubled by whether he should keep those laws, but how/what he can do to emulate Christ and to help others. Nobody can keep the laws completely, but we do it out of love and obedience to GOD, not out of fear. -
X2Originally posted by Ironside:Amen laoda99 ........amen........... -
Could you define "literal" please......often times people use the word without knowing what that really means.Originally posted by dragg:do not read the bible literally. everybody who knows english can understand it.
attending classes and courses allow to understand the scriptures in detail.
a lot of christians go around preaching without understanding.
the ability to quote verses and scriptures offhand dont mean anything.
often times when people say 'literal" they actually mean hyperliteralism.
Literal and hyperliteralism are two different things.
Literal interpretation [which is actually the only credible way of understanding
the Bible] means normally and plainly understanding the Bible. It recognizes figures of speech and looks for the literal meaning behind these figures.
While hyperliteralism means literally understanding the Bible including figures of speech.
Which of the two are you referring? -
u really have a heart of stone, preferring to believe that GOD is still punishing u while in fact he is not even angry with u. Why are u so angry with GOD?
In tat case u also have a heart of stone to be ignorant of the care that buddha give to u or some hindu deities give to u. I am not angry with god. I don't even think he exists. I just want u to be critically examine the bible instead of "just looking positively" and be blind to the other sections which is part of the bible as well. I mean, if u read and believe selectively, then every story is real, even snow white and the seven dwarves.With reference to your words in bold. Yes it is true, thanks for agreeing
Tat is a question lah. the important point is still the fact tat is jesus death is forgiving of all the sin, then we should see the ceasing of punishment such as death. If the result is not instananeous, in fact without even seeing it, how can anyone be sure tat wat he say is true ? Anyone can claim tat his death saves the whole world and bla bla bla but no one really see any differences. If god is omnipotent and if he really forgives the sin, I really do expect the effect to be instant. Otherwise either he do not really forgives us and continue his punishment or he is powerless to change the status which make him a lier by saying he is omnipotent. -
Jesus Himself conquered death, but that is after he died. Similarly you have to die before you reach the state you describe. Scripture does not claim the effect is instantaneous.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat is a question lah. the important point is still the fact tat is jesus death is forgiving of all the sin, then we should see the ceasing of punishment such as death.If the result is not instananeous, in fact without even seeing it, how can anyone be sure tat wat he say is true ? Anyone can claim tat his death saves the whole world and bla bla bla but no one really see any differences.
No major religion made the same claim .. interesting heh?If god is omnipotent and if he really forgives the sin, I really do expect the effect to be instant. Otherwise either he do not really forgives us and continue his punishment or he is powerless to change the status which make him a lier by saying he is omnipotent.
You expect .. to bad you can't have everything you want. The Bible is not written by you. -
No other faiths made the same claim?
Because they arent as fallacious as Christianity
Duh
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no, it means xtianity is original.
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to icemoon
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Which reminds me
If the state/secular laws contravene the laws in the bibles, or other way round, which ever makes u happy, then how?
I know the big issue in US is on abortions, contraception and gay marriages. Both sides been fighting for so long ,been election issues for god know how long... -
Jesus Himself conquered death, but that is after he died. Similarly you have to die before you reach the state you describe.
I think u r confusing people. Jesus die doesn't means tat we all have to die too in order to reach the state I described. If I am nto wrong he says he die to cleanse us of our sins and we r forgiven. Tat is it. He neevr say we all have to die too.Scripture does not claim the effect is instantaneous.
I said before. If the effect is not instaneous, it only come to 2 logical deductions
1. God have not forgiven us yet tat is why the punisment continue
2. God is powerless to change the state we r in for the time being.
Otherwise why are't the result instantaneous ?No major religion made the same claim .. interesting heh?
If he can back it up then it is interesting. Otherwise he can just simply be lying through his teeth. Any hoax can claim any crapYou expect .. to bad you can't have everything you want. The Bible is not written by you.
U really haven't answer the question why isn't the result instantaneous. -
You need to inherit a new body to enjoy the eternal life. This body you receive after you die. So the effect is not instantaneous.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If I am nto wrong he says he die to cleanse us of our sins and we r forgiven. Tat is it. He neevr say we all have to die too.U really haven't answer the question why isn't the result instantaneous.
I am under no obligation to answer you. If you want to argue, at least do it from the Scripture point of view.If he can back it up then it is interesting. Otherwise he can just simply be lying through his teeth. Any hoax can claim any crap
Well .. it is all a lie to you, isn't it? I see no point in talking to you then. To each his own. -
You need to inherit a new body to enjoy the eternal life. This body you receive after you die. So the effect is not instantaneous.
says who ? U mean god can't just use back our old body to enjoy eternal life ?I am under no obligation to answer you. If you want to argue, at least do it from the Scripture point of view.
Again u have shown tat u have no real answer to it. U can't deny it is logically flawed -
Even if God can, He is under no obligation to do it. Can God kill SIS now? Can! But must He do it?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Again u have shown tat u have no real answer to it. U can't deny it is logically flawed -
I'm not sure you want to enjoy eternal life with a broken limb.Originally posted by stupidissmart:says who ? U mean god can't just use back our old body to enjoy eternal life ?
My view is that the faith factor always come in. If xtians won't die .. then someone may just convert to inherit eternal life.
like my date with a vampire drama liddat. You want to get bitten 'cos you don't want to die. -
A person's faith shapes his/her values. A value/principal is adhered to even if the law allows it. For example, one will not go for abortion even if the government allows it.Originally posted by laurence82:Which reminds me
If the state/secular laws contravene the laws in the bibles, or other way round, which ever makes u happy, then how?
I know the big issue in US is on abortions, contraception and gay marriages. Both sides been fighting for so long ,been election issues for god know how long...
I can't think of any examples if the table is turned (value don't allow, law requires). The only case I think of now is the case of National Service and Seventh Day Adventist. In this case, I can't comment since I'm not an Adventist. Any other examples? -
Even if God can, He is under no obligation to do it. Can God kill SIS now? Can! But must He do it?
Under isn't tat falling ino the first category tat god hasn't forgiven men of their sins and tat is why he still keep on with the punishment. If I have reallly forgiven someone, I will stop all form of punishment to himI'm not sure you want to enjoy eternal life with a broken limb.
Why does the ida of broken limb comes into the pictureMy view is that the faith factor always come in. If xtians won't die .. then someone may just convert to inherit eternal life.
And wat is so bad with tat ? I thought tat is the idea of evangelising ? To get more people to believe in god isn't it ?like my date with a vampire drama liddat. You want to get bitten 'cos you don't want to die.
A lot of christian become christian because they want eternal life isn't it ? Aren't they the same as "my date with a vampire" ? -
Not JW?Originally posted by sillyme:A person's faith shapes his/her values. A value/principal is adhered to even if the law allows it. For example, one will not go for abortion even if the government allows it.
I can't think of any examples if the table is turned (value don't allow, law requires). The only case I think of now is the case of National Service and Seventh Day Adventist. In this case, I can't comment since I'm not an Adventist. Any other examples?
Ok, even if gahmen allows gay marriage, u guys not going to protest? Which is pretty contradictory to many assertive stance i see many christians take...
Btw, have you read abt what Chicks says about our Religious Harmony Act?
He says the Act prevent Christians from spreading the word of god and evangelising. -
A person's faith shapes his/her values
u don't need faith solely to achieve the same result. I don't wanna start on tis -
Yup, JW too.Originally posted by laurence82:Not JW?
Ok, even if gahmen allows gay marriage, u guys not going to protest? Which is pretty contradictory to many assertive stance i see many christians take...
Btw, have you read abt what Chicks says about our Religious Harmony Act?
He says the Act prevent Christians from spreading the word of god and evangelising.
I'm not the kind that will protest
I think some will will try to air their views. Like I said, a person's lifestyle is dictated by his values/principals. The Government can allow/disallow many things that may conflict with my value system, but it's very much dependant on myself if I want to follow or go against the law.
The reason why some choose to speak out. As the saying goes, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". Similarly, some are afraid that if a law (that contravenes his values) is passed, it becomes a norm through dilution of time. This has happened in the past and will continue to do so. To me, it is more important to internalise and be anchored in your principals/values than to respond in fear.
Chicks? Uh, I'm lost
What is it about? -
Point taken.Originally posted by stupidissmart:u don't need faith solely to achieve the same result. I don't wanna start on tis
It can be formed by one's experiences and what he place emphasis on that makes him happy. -
I'll try to post it tonight.Originally posted by sillyme:Yup, JW too.
I'm not the kind that will protest I think some will will try to air their views. Like I said, a person's lifestyle is dictated by his values/principals. The Government can allow/disallow many things that may conflict with my value system, but it's very much dependant on myself if I want to follow or go against the law.
The reason why some choose to speak out. As the saying goes, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". Similarly, some are afraid that if a law (that contravenes his values) is passed, it becomes a norm through dilution of time. This has happened in the past and will continue to do so. To me, it is more important to internalise and be anchored in your principals/values than to respond in fear.
Chicks? Uh, I'm lost What is it about?
Gotta go for now.