To follow or not to follow the law?
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Think some of the pple here had asked whether we should follow the law since we have grace thru Christ. This is quite a touchy issue for a lot of people who like to question whether Christ had superceded and nullified all the laws in the OT.
My opinion is: When GOD has given us his grace thru Christ, Christ had fulfilled the law for us. The law is just a tool/benchmark for us, not a solution. Christ is the solution. We obey GOD's law not becoz we fear him, but out of love for him, becoz GOD so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believe in him should not perish but have ever lasting life.
I believe anyone who loves GOD would not find himself troubled by whether he should keep those laws, but how/what he can do to emulate Christ and to help others. Nobody can keep the laws completely, but we do it out of love and obedience to GOD, not out of fear. -
Verse, scripture, reference to support lehz.
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Haha...it is already all there in the bible. Sometimes I am quite fearful of quoting as others who disagree will come out with counter quotes and develop into a flame war. Then the whole thread will just be full of quotes.Originally posted by M©+square:Verse, scripture, reference to support lehz.
Just want to share my opinions with the others what I read from the bible. -
according to the scriptures the law of a country supercedes the word of GOD.
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What I believe in: 'Dual citizenship' for believers. Until GOD establish his kingdom here on Earth, we are still subjected to earthly governance.Originally posted by dragg:according to the scriptures the law of a country supercedes the word of GOD.
Give what is due to GOD, and what is due to your government. Obey GOD and do what is necessary as a good citizen.
The word of GOD should always serve as a benchmark for us to follow. If the government goes too far off e.g. killing people in genocides, we know that is wrong and shouldn't obey.
In my opinion, the law of a country will never supercede the word of GOD. The earthly kings/leaders are responsible to GOD for their policies/actions. I always think these leaders have a higher moral responsibility as their policies can affect everyone. Many lives are on their hands. -
do not read the bible literally. everybody who knows english can understand it.Originally posted by laoda99:Haha...it is already all there in the bible. Sometimes I am quite fearful of quoting as others who disagree will come out with counter quotes and develop into a flame war. Then the whole thread will just be full of quotes.
Just want to share my opinions with the others what I read from the bible.
attending classes and courses allow to understand the scriptures in detail.
a lot of christians go around preaching without understanding.
the ability to quote verses and scriptures offhand dont mean anything. -
I agree with u that a lot of Christians go around preaching without understanding the faith, which is why sometimes pple are put off by them instead. This is most unfortunate. I believe when one want to preach the word, his intentions are good. We just need to change our approach, able to preach effectively and not compromising our message.Originally posted by dragg:do not read the bible literally. everybody who knows english can understand it.
attending classes and courses allow to understand the scriptures in detail.
a lot of christians go around preaching without understanding.
the ability to quote verses and scriptures offhand dont mean anything.
Btw, care to intro in the faith and intro thread? -
you have no answered my question.
are you at school now or at home? -
God has allowed the governments and kings to rule us. They are supposed to rule justly and with compassion. But we all know this doesn't happen. If the law goes against the teachings of God, then it is our duty to oppose them vigorously, through peaceful methods of course.
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do u think we should mix religion with government? (e.g. Arroyo's case)Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:God has allowed the governments and kings to rule us. They are supposed to rule justly and with compassion. But we all know this doesn't happen. If the law goes against the teachings of God, then it is our duty to oppose them vigorously, through peaceful methods of course. -
actually, for me, its no feasible or practical to look at spirituality in corporate world or politics
these different areas have different aims, and u need different perceptives to look at issues in each area
i know some, from a christian point of view, would love to say god supercede all the mundane worldy affairs
but look at it, corporate aims is to achieve profits no matter what, for lots of issues, like whistle blowing, are contentious issues when people discuss it from an ethical, moral or spiritual point of view
their view points is, even if they do something unethical, and that achieve the company goals, they would do it, and at times, they are not wrong
but this would go into areas of social responsibitlies and all the nutty stuff, i dont have energy to go discuss it
as for governments, do u notice in many western countries with heavy christian population, but also having significant religious minority, enforce many certain anti christian rules?
just last year, Sydney mayor was lambasted for having minimal xmas deco on the city hall building, and his reason was that he wished to be more sensitive to the non christian community too
thats why, many older members would have seen me lambasting many christians in this forum, just like the mayor in the example above, there is a strong need for government to maintain harmony among diverse groups
they arent going to allow one group to supercede the other just because this sole group believe what they believe in is far superior to the others
which also remind of one webby which lambast SG Religious Harmony Act for being anti christianity, cos it has limit certain amount of preaching or evangelism that can be carried out by all religious groups -
If it is for good, then why not?Originally posted by laoda99:do u think we should mix religion with government? (e.g. Arroyo's case) -
Define good?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If it is for good, then why not?
For example, abortion is a huge issue in US. I know in Catholicism, abortion is forbidden. But the rest of the society supports abortion, and they have strong points for it too.
So we should allow the Catholic views to take over simply becos we want to mix religion with poltical governance? -
Wait the party you support lose and the next party dun support you.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If it is for good, then why not? -
It's dangerous to mix politics and religion. Look at the Crusades in medieval times, Hitler and the Japanese emperor of World War II, and Al Qaeda in recent times.
With the wrong person in control, this mix is a potent tool to sway people in the direction with misguided intentions. -
Also...Europe's thirty years war. during the period of the reformation...Originally posted by sillyme:It's dangerous to mix politics and religion. Look at the Crusades in medieval times, Hitler and the Japanese emperor of World War II, and Al Qaeda in recent times.
With the wrong person in control, this mix is a potent tool to sway people in the direction with misguided intentions. -
You are not a Jew, you follow for what?Originally posted by laoda99:Think some of the pple here had asked whether we should follow the law since we have grace thru Christ. This is quite a touchy issue for a lot of people who like to question whether Christ had superceded and nullified all the laws in the OT.
Of course I don't mean you can be lawless and ignore even the basic Decalogue, but no one is obliged the law unless they are a Jew or they convert.
There you have it - the excuse not to get circumcised. -
In Christ, we were given grace over law.Originally posted by Icemoon:You are not a Jew, you follow for what?
Of course I don't mean you can be lawless and ignore even the basic Decalogue, but no one is obliged the law unless they are a Jew or they convert.
There you have it - the excuse not to get circumcised.
Law is the xray slide that shows the disease of men. Christ is the cure. -
Wait, which law are we talking abt?Originally posted by Icemoon:You are not a Jew, you follow for what?
Of course I don't mean you can be lawless and ignore even the basic Decalogue, but no one is obliged the law unless they are a Jew or they convert.
There you have it - the excuse not to get circumcised. -
The 613 commandments found in the Torah.Originally posted by laurence82:Wait, which law are we talking abt? -
Law exhalts the Jewish nation .. it was the Law that kept them together and able to form the state of Zion.Originally posted by laoda99:In Christ, we were given grace over law.
Law is the xray slide that shows the disease of men. Christ is the cure.
On the other hand, grace perpetuates (ok lah, the RC dun have the justification by faith concept then
) evils cos you always put God above His people.
PS: God did tell them to be circumcised. You can happy happy say I have grace and need not be circumcised? -
No big deal .. we are already not perfect and God will not expect you to perform perfectly and will not fault you if you are not perfect.Originally posted by laoda99:Law is the xray slide that shows the disease of men. Christ is the cure.
You say Christ is the cure .. but are Christians free from disease of men?
No offence, but the cure like no cure like that. -
Think must get our priorities right. Belief in GOD/Christ precedes circumcision.Originally posted by Icemoon:Law exhalts the Jewish nation .. it was the Law that kept them together and able to form the state of Zion.
On the other hand, grace perpetuates (ok lah, the RC dun have the justification by faith concept then) evils cos you always put God above His people.
PS: God did tell them to be circumcised. You can happy happy say I have grace and need not be circumcised?
hmm....since u believed in the torah...are u circumcised? -
Since God says must curcumcise, then His Word is the same level as Him. There is no priorities regarding this issue.Originally posted by laoda99:Think must get our priorities right. Belief in GOD/Christ precedes circumcision.
hmm....since u believed in the torah...are u circumcised?
I believe in the Torah .. but I am not a Jew and I or my ancestors made no such covenant with God .. so why circumcise?
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Hmm....then u are more christian than jewish...Originally posted by Icemoon:Since God says must curcumcise, then His Word is the same level as Him. There is no priorities regarding this issue.
I believe in the Torah .. but I am not a Jew and I or my ancestors made no such covenant with God .. so why circumcise?