why jesus must die on the cross?
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Err...indirectly perhaps?Originally posted by Icemoon:what .. so we can achieve nirvana faster?
But at least you suffer lesser. 
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So you believe in the God of Jesus but you do not accept Jesus as the Lamb of God....??? May I ask which religion/faith you embrace??Originally posted by Icemoon:The God whom Jesus believed too. -
Well, I can't forget the fact SIS used to think I am a Jew.Originally posted by laoda99:Are u a jew or a muslim, or just someone who is interested to compare between the three faiths?You also talked about repentance and prayers, are u talking from ur research or becoz u have repented and prayed also?
This is quite basic, in the sense every non-evil religion in the world will preach repentence. Even John the Baptist said, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand". The ironical thing is, while John is believed to be the forerunner of Jesus, this guy himself doesn't have enough faith in Jesus (read what was said to John in jail).
It is doubtful whether there was really a voice from heaven when Jesus was baptised by .. John the man! Come on, if the one who heard first hand doesn't have enough faith, I dunno what was the voice for. Made God's word look so stupid!
What is GOD's relationship with u? For me, he is someone who has shown me love by giving me Christ, which is why I am a Christian, and I am proud to say I am thus able to share with u GOD's love in Christ.
Ask you. Without God's love in Christ .. God does not love us?Why not read it with love? If you think you can pray direct to GOD, u shld know that GOD loves u too.
This is the funny part. Why does Christians need to pray in the name of Jesus when they can pray direct to God?Knowledge does not complete ur faith. Faith does.
You know, there is one explanation I don't like from Christians. They explain the 10 commandments and the Jewish laws are given to the Jews to show their inadequacy, that the laws cannot save them. From hindsight and from the fact you are now under grace, not law, it is easy to agree. But if you assume an impersonal view, this explanation just show God is a frivolous God who toyed with His chosen people for 1200+ years then tata introduces Christ Jesus.
As if this is not enough, the fact most Jews do not believe in Jesus either mean that:
1) God has failed in His plan (using the Law to introduce Grace, as you need to contrast the Law to see the beauty of Grace). He has failed quite miserably as those who were under Law still failed to see His point.
2) God sacrificed His chosen people so the rest of the world can receive "salvation". Maybe it was part of His plan to let the Crusades and the Inquisitors slaughter the Jews .. haha -
Hi Icemoon,Originally posted by Icemoon:You know, there is one explanation I don't like from Christians. They explain the 10 commandments and the Jewish laws are given to the Jews to show their inadequacy, that the laws cannot save them. From hindsight and from the fact you are now under grace, not law, it is easy to agree. But if you assume an impersonal view, this explanation just show God is a frivolous God who toyed with His chosen people for 1200+ years then tata introduces Christ Jesus.
As if this is not enough, the fact most Jews do not believe in Jesus either mean that:
1) God has failed in His plan (using the Law to introduce Grace, as you need to contrast the Law to see the beauty of Grace). He has failed quite miserably as those who were under Law still failed to see His point.
2) God sacrificed His chosen people so the rest of the world can receive "salvation". Maybe it was part of His plan to let the Crusades and the Inquisitors slaughter the Jews .. haha
After our exchanges, I still do not know what faith u belonged till now...getting more and more confused by u....u seemed to agree with what the bible says except Christ's role. Are u a Christian?
Think u have the same doubts abt Christ's divinity as I had last time. I took quite a while to sort things out and still getting confused even after baptism. But I believed if one already decided to be a Christian, he should at least have a stand that Christ is the Son. There are so many quotes in the NT which u can quote that support this.
I believe u should make a choice on what you believe in the end. It is for your own well-being and for others who are interested in Christianity who are viewing this post. They mebbe getting more and more confused by u also.
For myself, I believed I am also responsible and guilty in turning a lot of people away from the faith by dwelling on theology/conspiracy issues and making them as confused as me. One of my frens were outraged when I told her Christians killed each other, so there must be something wrong with the faith. My fren remained a non-believer till this day.
It is very sad (I was in the same predicament too, nearly suffer from a split personality or a mental breakdown as i cannot find harmony in what i believe. I always thought I was forced to believe, not becoz I love GOD or he loves me) when one is not here, not there. U cannot believe in GOD and say that u dun believe in Christ. It is simply a big irony if u are a Christian. Similarly, u dun find a muslim who denied muhammad as allah's messenger right?
God/Jesus wants us to spread the good news to the world. It will be ironic if we turn people away instead with all this confusion. If u are a christian, we are in the unified body of Christ and should concentrate in telling people abt Christ, not debating abt his divinity that has already taken place hundreds of years ago.
To end it here, I would say: If u Love GOD, u love Christ. Christ is our Lord and our God. Christ definitely loves u even though u may have rejected him. But his door is always there for u. -
will you still say the same if your are in all sorts of trouble?Originally posted by laoda99:Hi Icemoon,
After our exchanges, I still do not know what faith u belonged till now...getting more and more confused by u....u seemed to agree with what the bible says except Christ's role. Are u a Christian?
Think u have the same doubts abt Christ's divinity as I had last time. I took quite a while to sort things out and still getting confused even after baptism. But I believed if one already decided to be a Christian, he should at least have a stand that Christ is the Son. There are so many quotes in the NT which u can quote that support this.
I believe u should make a choice on what you believe in the end. It is for your own well-being and for others who are interested in Christianity who are viewing this post. They mebbe getting more and more confused by u also.
For myself, I believed I am also responsible and guilty in turning a lot of people away from the faith by dwelling on theology/conspiracy issues and making them as confused as me. One of my frens were outraged when I told her Christians killed each other, so there must be something wrong with the faith. My fren remained a non-believer till this day.
It is very sad (I was in the same predicament too, nearly suffer from a split personality or a mental breakdown as i cannot find harmony in what i believe. I always thought I was forced to believe, not becoz I love GOD or he loves me) when one is not here, not there. U cannot believe in GOD and say that u dun believe in Christ. It is simply a big irony if u are a Christian. Similarly, u dun find a muslim who denied muhammad as allah's messenger right?
God/Jesus wants us to spread the good news to the world. It will be ironic if we turn people away instead with all this confusion. If u are a christian, we are in the unified body of Christ and should concentrate in telling people abt Christ, not debating abt his divinity that has already taken place hundreds of years ago.
To end it here, I would say: If u Love GOD, u love Christ. Christ is our Lord and our God. Christ definitely loves u even though u may have rejected him. But his door is always there for u. -
Hi, I'm a new comer to the forum. Just finish reading the threads.Originally posted by laoda99:Hi Icemoon,
After our exchanges, I still do not know what faith u belonged till now...getting more and more confused by u....u seemed to agree with what the bible says except Christ's role. Are u a Christian?
Think u have the same doubts abt Christ's divinity as I had last time. I took quite a while to sort things out and still getting confused even after baptism. But I believed if one already decided to be a Christian, he should at least have a stand that Christ is the Son. There are so many quotes in the NT which u can quote that support this.
I believe u should make a choice on what you believe in the end. It is for your own well-being and for others who are interested in Christianity who are viewing this post. They mebbe getting more and more confused by u also.
For myself, I believed I am also responsible in turning a lot of people away from the faith by dwelling on theology/conspiracy issues and making them as confused as me.
It is very sad (I was in the same predicament too, nearly suffer from a split personality as i cannot find harmony in what i believe) when one is not here, not there. U cannot believe in GOD and say that u dun believe in Christ. It is simply a big irony if u are a Christian. Similarly, u dun find a muslim who denied muhammad as allah's messenger right?
I agree with what you said.
My personal thinking is, there are always people who like to quote the bible and falsely interpret the message in the way that they feel like it. Not saying that these people are doing something wrong. We all want to seek the truth of something when we're in the mist.
However, I would suggest these kind of gentlemen/lady to take some courses on theology. THat may clear some doubts. Also, someone mentioned earlier I think. THe english bible was a translated one - the original was written in different languages that most of us do not understand. Sometimes the translation really sound weird to me also.
All in all, the faith of christianity has always been questioned and doubted. I think we shouldn't be questioning people's faith in a very unfriendly way. Just believe in what you believe, and let others embrace their own beliefs too. People can't stop you from believing what you want, and it's vice versa.
May peace be with everyone
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I will. I've gone through lots of trouble for the 1st six months of year 2005. And now I'm showered with blessingsOriginally posted by dragg:will you still say the same if your are in all sorts of trouble? -
I think laoda99 is evading my qns leh .. I am here to seek ans one leh.
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Originally posted by janita219:
Who are the best people to interpret the Old Testament other than the audience to whom it was originally written for?
Also, someone mentioned earlier I think. THe english bible was a translated one - the original was written in different languages that most of us do not understand. Sometimes the translation really sound weird to me also. [/color][/b] -
Well, did you answer the question what faith/religion you are????Originally posted by Icemoon:I think laoda99 is evading my qns leh .. I am here to seek ans one leh.
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I will still say the same. I have been in a lot of troubles already. But GOD is always standing firm by my side. If not for him probably i wont be here already.Originally posted by dragg:will you still say the same if your are in all sorts of trouble?
Believe in HIM. -
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The issue is TRANSLATION not INTERPRET.... there is a marked difference between the two....Originally posted by Icemoon:Who are the best people to interpret the Old Testament other than the audience to whom it was originally written for?
Translate: To render in another language.
Interpret: To conceive the significance of; construe: interpreted his smile to be an agreement; interpreted the open door as an invitation. -
The Apostle Paul said men are without excuse to know God through His creation.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Well, did you answer the question what faith/religion you are????
May I know what you call people who believe in God like what Paul said? -
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Icemoon, are u a Christian?
If you are a Christian, would sincerely hope to help u. You can sought advice from your bible class also.
Just have faith ok? Faith is fundamental, let theology takes it own course. As I have said earier, having lots of knowledge does not complete the faith. Having faith in Christ does. If you have a lot of knowledge but not the love that Christ has, there is nothing for u to gain except temporary pride that u can out-talk somebody. -
Fundamentally you need to have a good command of the original language and understanding of the culture to translate and interpret mah. Right?Originally posted by Chin Eng:The issue is TRANSLATION not INTERPRET.... there is a marked difference between the two....
Like if there are no equivalent in English, a translator with a PHD in translation also suck thumb. You need to understand the culture and infer to arrive at the "best" English equivalent. -
Unbaptised, so no.Originally posted by laoda99:Icemoon, are u a Christian?
I was frustrated when some forummers here think I am defending the Christian/Protestant faith. -
Whether u r baptised or not, u are already a Christian if u believe in the bible and accepted Christ. Care to share how was it like when u accepted Christ?Originally posted by Icemoon:Unbaptised, so no.
I was frustrated when some forummers here think I am defending the Christian/Protestant faith.
How many years have u been a Christian? My advice is go for baptism class as soon as u think u are ready. It was esp enriching for me as I learnt abt the duties of being a christian.
You may be glad to know that while our faith fluctuates, GOD has faith in us at all times. That's why he sent his Son to us so that we can share in his love. -
Are you referring to Romans 1:20? For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse A reference would have helped a great deal.Originally posted by Icemoon:The Apostle Paul said men are without excuse to know God through His creation.
May I know what you call people who believe in God like what Paul said?
'Cos if you are, then you should continue reading verse 21. Verse 20 ends with a colon which leads on to the reason of the the first statement. The entire passage should be read (with the verse numbers removed): For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. You need to pay attention to the punctuation too.....
So then would your next point be: since you, Icemoon, has a god and claimed to glorify as god, you are safe? Would you still quote from the NT assuming you do not believe in Jesus Christ?
Still, you are not willing to state your religion..... hmmmm, I wonder why... -
This is a short practice for those who believe in the OT the Jews are forgiven by sacrifice and intercesson of the High Priest.
1. In the Book of Jonah are the people of Ninevah forgiven by God? If so, how?
2. From Leviticus 5, are there other alternatives beside a blood sacrifice? -
Hmm .. I have managed to lure Chin Eng out from his ivory tower to participate in forum discussion.
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Why be particularly worried abt how he forgives? The fact is He forgives thru his grace becoz he loves us, not becoz we deserved or earned it.Originally posted by Icemoon:This is a short practice for those who believe in the OT the Jews are forgiven by sacrifice and intercesson of the High Priest.
1. In the Book of Jonah are the people of Ninevah forgiven by God? If so, how?
2. From Leviticus 5, are there other alternatives beside a blood sacrifice?
When u read the NT, arent u glad that now u have Christ instead of the law? Why dwell on the curse and not concentrate on the blessing? Why choose to favour the law over what Christ did for us on the cross? What Christ did for us on the cross is fundamental to us as Christians. I believed you would not have receive Christ if u do not believe the bible. -
If a christian do not believe in what he should (Christ), how to spread the good news to others? We will be failing him who have called us to spread his word to the people.
We dun read the OT/NT so that as and when we like we pulled out quotes to quarrel abt theology. We read the bible as a whole to understand Christ's love and sacrifice for us. If not for his sacrifice, we would still be condemned.
Think if all of us can do this there would be no need to dispute abt GOD's laws. Everything will be in harmony. All these petty disputes would be solved by itself if u understand GOD's love for us.