why jesus must die on the cross?
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its was fashionable way to be executed.
you can even have a parade and clown show, add in, and people can make a living selling snacks and rotten tomatos. and some could even show their madz spitting skillz. -
The whole idea doesn't make any sense.Originally posted by sillyme:That said, it must be pointed out that forgiveness needs two parties to be involved. One to forgive, the other to receive the forgiveness.
How can the whole world be forgiven through Jesus? If you commit a sin against someone, then you receive the forgiveness from the victim, not God. God cannot forgive you on behalf of the victim. God can only forgive you if you sin against Him.
This is a piece of Jewish wisdom - the 10 commandments are divided roughly into two groups - one dealing with God (eg. cannot make idol) and the other dealing with humanity (eg. cannot steal from neighbour). The essence is contained in the greatest commandment (love your God and your neighbour).
That said, I must stress that by sinning against another human, we incur God's wrath as well. If you want forgiveness, then seek first from that person, then from God. Not from God first then from that person. Get your order right. You see this correct order practised by Jews during their Yom Kippur. -
With the destruction of the Second Temple, prophecy is no longer given to mankind and the ritual system is void. I don't think Jews today still sacrifice lambs in their synagogues ..Originally posted by sillyme:For sin to be forgiven, sacrifice must be made. -
That is why there the priest gives penance after confession. One may be forgiven but he still needs to make reparation.Originally posted by Icemoon:The whole idea doesn't make any sense.
How can the whole world be forgiven through Jesus? If you commit a sin against someone, then you receive the forgiveness from the victim, not God. God cannot forgive you on behalf of the victim. God can only forgive you if you sin against Him.
This is a piece of Jewish wisdom - the 10 commandments are divided roughly into two groups - one dealing with God (eg. cannot make idol) and the other dealing with humanity (eg. cannot steal from neighbour). The essence is contained in the greatest commandment (love your God and your neighbour).
That said, I must stress that by sinning against another human, we incur God's wrath as well. If you want forgiveness, then seek first from that person, then from God. Not from God first then from that person. Get your order right. You see this correct order practised by Jews during their Yom Kippur. -
How does this affect the victim?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:That is why there the priest gives penance after confession. One may be forgiven but he still needs to make reparation. -
I dont even know whether this topic was started with a good intentionOriginally posted by Chin Eng:tlli,
I pm you my answer....
Don't want another hijacked thread and flaming war....
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It doesn't make any sense unless u believe, Icemoon. The problem with people is that they thought the idea that Jesus forgave all sins is too good to be true. But the fact is: if u truely receive Jesus with all your heart, your sins are forgiven. What God has given u are by his grace, not because we deserve it.Originally posted by Icemoon:The whole idea doesn't make any sense.
How can the whole world be forgiven through Jesus? If you commit a sin against someone, then you receive the forgiveness from the victim, not God. God cannot forgive you on behalf of the victim. God can only forgive you if you sin against Him.
This is a piece of Jewish wisdom - the 10 commandments are divided roughly into two groups - one dealing with God (eg. cannot make idol) and the other dealing with humanity (eg. cannot steal from neighbour). The essence is contained in the greatest commandment (love your God and your neighbour).
That said, I must stress that by sinning against another human, we incur God's wrath as well. If you want forgiveness, then seek first from that person, then from God. Not from God first then from that person. Get your order right. You see this correct order practised by Jews during their Yom Kippur.
Jesus' yoke is light and never a burden to man. When Jesus died for our sins on the cross, it has a continuous and permanent effect whereby our past, present and future sins are being forgiven. Even though man are sinners, God no longer held these sins against us. You are no longer condemned by sin thru the law but instead share in his light and righteousness with the new covenant made in his flesh and blood. Blessed are the desperate, sick, poor and whoever in need who readily received Jesus. For those who continue to dwell in old demons and sins, why not receive Jesus and be saved? -
Even though man are sinners, God no longer held these sins against us.
In the OT, God forgives. I ask you .. why did God forgive King David who did so many evils? Adultery .. indirect murder ..For those who continue to dwell in old demons and sins, why not receive Jesus and be saved?
Who is dwelling in old demons and sins? -
The sinner must make reparation to the victim. One does not sin only against God, not only against the church, but to others too.Originally posted by Icemoon:How does this affect the victim? -
I'd give the thread starter the benefit of doubt. There're probably three groups of people that hang around EH:Originally posted by laurence82:I dont even know whether this topic was started with a good intention
1. Christians,
2. Non-Christians wanting to find out more,
3. Christian haters who want nothing but to pick at any questionable issues on Christianity.
I think we all know who the "popular" folks in group 3 are, so I'd rather not fan their hatred by rebutting them (at least, not anymore).
I am willing to chat with group 2, as long as it is amicable. Once the other fellow gets "boi song" than I'd rather walk away. Still, got to give benefit of doubt at the beginning. -
You can choose not to believe and go on living life the way you want to. Or you can choose to go on exploring what I've said. It's really up to you.Originally posted by tlli:how do i knw wat u said is true? the facts maybe distorted.. -
It doesn't make sense if Jesus was an ordinary human. If he indeed was just like us, then his death would probably be in vain. But Jesus is the Son of God, God's intended plan for salvation of mankind.Originally posted by Icemoon:The whole idea doesn't make any sense.
How can the whole world be forgiven through Jesus? If you commit a sin against someone, then you receive the forgiveness from the victim, not God. God cannot forgive you on behalf of the victim. God can only forgive you if you sin against Him.
This is a piece of Jewish wisdom - the 10 commandments are divided roughly into two groups - one dealing with God (eg. cannot make idol) and the other dealing with humanity (eg. cannot steal from neighbour). The essence is contained in the greatest commandment (love your God and your neighbour).
That said, I must stress that by sinning against another human, we incur God's wrath as well. If you want forgiveness, then seek first from that person, then from God. Not from God first then from that person. Get your order right. You see this correct order practised by Jews during their Yom Kippur. -
Thank you Chin Eng for clarifying and echoing the mods' thoughts.Originally posted by Chin Eng:I'd give the thread starter the benefit of doubt. There're probably three groups of people that hang around EH:
1. Christians,
2. Non-Christians wanting to find out more,
3. Christian haters who want nothing but to pick at any questionable issues on Christianity.
I think we all know who the "popular" folks in group 3 are, so I'd rather not fan their hatred by rebutting them (at least, not anymore).
I am willing to chat with group 2, as long as it is amicable. Once the other fellow gets "boi song" than I'd rather walk away. Still, got to give benefit of doubt at the beginning. -
Actually Jesus did not die on the cross (like the word 't'), instead he died on a stake (vertical pole).Originally posted by tlli:as above... NO offence..
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Now we have to know whether was Jesus nailed on a pole or on the cross.
Anyone can provide facts? -
since its popular belief.. hellva popular.. he died on a cross.. so until there are facts and evidence that says otherwise, we''ll have to take it as the "fact".Originally posted by M©+square:Now we have to know whether was Jesus nailed on a pole or on the cross.
Anyone can provide facts? -
The bible said he died on the cross .. what say you?Originally posted by snowmaiden:Actually Jesus did not die on the cross (like the word 't'), instead he died on a stake (vertical pole). -
.................Originally posted by Ito_^:since its popular belief.. hellva popular.. he died on a cross.. so until there are facts and evidence that says otherwise, we''ll have to take it as the "fact".
I cannot settle it as a 'fact' when it is not proven.
Assumption can lead to many misunderstanding in the word.
I can easily distort the doctrines and scriptures in the bible.
Cheers -
It's called Crucifixion
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den i think its wise to look in the direction on how romans execute (in parade) their convicts.Originally posted by M©+square:.................
I cannot settle it as a 'fact' when it is not proven.
Assumption can lead to many misunderstanding in the word.
I can easily distort the doctrines and scriptures in the bible.
Cheers
but im too lazy for research. -
Well, for starters, it is a known historical fact that "Crucifixion" is one of the more commonly used methods for punishments. See link below.
http://www.thinkinghistory.co.uk/resources/punishmentsthroughtime.htm#settingup
Definition of stake: A piece of wood or metal pointed at one end for driving into the ground as a marker, fence pole, or tent peg.
Definition of cross: An upright post with a transverse piece near the top, on which condemned persons were executed in ancient times.
Both definitions above from: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry
Of course, one can always argue that Jesus was glued to a "PLUS" sign.....
Hey whatever....
but there is no record of prisoners and criminals during the Roman empire being hung on a stake..... -
Christ died of crucifixion, a method of execution invented by the Persians. It was adopted by the Roman army. The cross of crucifixion exists in several shapes. One in the form of the low tau (commonly known as the latin cross), the high tau. Sometimes a natural tree is used.
Recorded in the bible, Christ carried the horizontal beam, or known as the patibulum, on His way to Golgotha. It has not established, not that I know of at least, which form of crucifixion (high or low tau) He was nailed to. -
Hey why in Acts they say Jesus died on a tree?
Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29 and 1 Peter 2:24
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Well, for starters the Greek word for "Tree" is xulon which apparently can take to mean also clubs (for whacking), stocks (for locking up) and wood. Herein, it is must be said that a good understanding (or at least the desire for a good research) is necessary when reading the English Bible, which we all know was translated from Hebrew, Aramic and Greek.Originally posted by Icemoon:Hey why in Acts they say Jesus died on a tree?
Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29 and 1 Peter 2:24
While the crucifixion is a cruel and unusual punishment in the Roman world, death by hanging on a tree is considered a taboo in the Jewish world. It is very likely that the reason for the word "tree" being used five times (one more in Galatians) is either a translation issue, or even possibly that Paul and Peter had wanted to elaborate the psychological state of Jesus' death in its humiliation and embarrasement to the Jewish culture.
Of course we can choose to continue to read only in English and nitpick at all issues we don't understand and refusing to take in contextual, translational and cultural factors.
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"Dying on the tree" is a metaphor. To the Jews, it is akin to being cursed (Deut. 21:23) and shamed. Christ was made a curse for the salvation of mankind.