The nature of Christ
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Jesus Christ is both God and Man. What say you?
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Agreed. Christ is fully man and fully God. As God, he was able to atone and forgive our sins. As man, he was able to sympathise with our sorrows and weaknesses. If he is just another ordinary man like one of us, he wouldn't be able to save us from sins. This is one of the basic tenets in Christianity. If we do not believe that Christ is God, Christ will just be like a mere prophet whose death may not be that significant. We may also disqualify to call ourselves 'christians' which the early church fathers had maintained.
To the Jews, this is blasphemy as they believe GOD will never come down to us as a man. Think this is the sensitive issue which people would disputed. -
SingaporeMacross, throw in a few heresies that involve the nature of Christ .. to make the discussion more challenging.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Jesus Christ is both God and Man. What say you?
You can start with Nestorian theology .. -
Huh .. as God He could also do that .. God in the OT did that .. you don't need a man to do that.Originally posted by laoda99:As man, he was able to sympathise with our sorrows and weaknesses. -
He is certainly not just a 'great teacher' or 'very moral man'
He is either who he claims to be, or a lunatic on the level of a man who says he's a poached egg, a devil of hell or something worse, we must make our choice but no nonsense about Jesus just being a teacher or moral person. -
Christ is definitely human as well as GOD. Dun really want to go into the theological aspect of it, but as the son of man, his total obedience to GOD is what every human should emulate. As man, he was tempted by Satan andOriginally posted by Icemoon:Huh .. as God He could also do that .. God in the OT did that .. you don't need a man to do that.
his obedience and trust in GOD allowed him to emerge victorious. As man, he was sorrowful when Lazarus whom he dearly loved died. As man, he was angry that his father's temple was turned into a den of thieves. As man, he become sorrowful and prayed when he knew he has to follow his father's will and not his own, that is to die for our sins. As man, he went through every suffering imaginable as he tried to establish the permanent link between the father and man. His human body was beaten and broken and then crucified on the cross. He died as a human, flesh and blood, not an astral body.
If ever in OT this permanent relationship between GOD and man has been served, there would never been a need for Christ to come as man. I believe GOD did not even need to do this (by coming to us as human). He did this because he truely loves us and not forsake us. -
That's my line.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Jesus Christ is both God and Man. What say you?
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of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!!!
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I wonder how bad it was for him to deal with temptation.
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from who? Mary Magdalene?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I wonder how bad it was for him to deal with temptation.
which reminds me .. since Jesus is 100% human, if he lusts after woman in his mind, just that "one streak of thought", he has sinned right? -
Lol you think what? The last tempation of Christ ah?Originally posted by Icemoon:from who? Mary Magdalene?
which reminds me .. since Jesus is 100% human, if he lusts after woman in his mind, just that "one streak of thought", he has sinned right?
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satan?Originally posted by Icemoon:from who? Mary Magdalene?
which reminds me .. since Jesus is 100% human, if he lusts after woman in his mind, just that "one streak of thought", he has sinned right?
i suddenly imagined a beard faggot in red dress revealing his hairy cleavege trying to tempt jesus..
ew. -
why no one can ans this qn?
Jesus from the time he reached bar mitzah until he was crucified .. really never broke any of the laws meh?
Not like he whole day stay in shaolin temple and do nothing but meditate (monks stay away from women, thai monks are forbidden to be touched by women, even their mums I heard) .. Jesus was accompanied by so many ladies.
The Mary or Martha (forgot which) even stayed so close to him and cleaned his feet?
Really no "one streak" of lustful thought? He most likely doesn't have any girlfriend, so that makes the problem even worse?
And since christians think that masturbation is a sin, so he never did that also! -
scitology or something. Christ was an alien.Originally posted by Icemoon:SingaporeMacross, throw in a few heresies that involve the nature of Christ .. to make the discussion more challenging.
You can start with Nestorian theology .. 
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Arianism (4th Century)
Arius taught that Christ was a creature made by God.
Nestorianism (5th Century)
This heresy about the person of Christ was initiated by Nestorius, bishop of Constantinople, who denied Mary the title of Theotokos (Greek: "God-bearer" or, less literally, "Mother of God"). Nestorius claimed that she only bore ChristÂ’s human nature in her womb, and proposed the alternative title Christotokos ("Christ-bearer" or "Mother of Christ").
Monophysitism (5th Century)
Monophysitism originated as a reaction to Nestorianism. The Monophysites (led by a man named Eutyches) were horrified by NestoriusÂ’s implication that Christ was two people with two different natures (human and divine). They went to the other extreme, claiming that Christ was one person with only one nature (a fusion of human and divine elements). They are thus known as Monophysites because of their claim that Christ had only one nature (Greek: mono = one; physis = nature). -
Hmm....if the devil can personally tempted him and promised him all the powers in the world, and he still emerge victorious...wat do u think?Originally posted by Icemoon:why no one can ans this qn?
Jesus from the time he reached bar mitzah until he was crucified .. really never broke any of the laws meh?
Not like he whole day stay in shaolin temple and do nothing but meditate (monks stay away from women, thai monks are forbidden to be touched by women, even their mums I heard) .. Jesus was accompanied by so many ladies.
The Mary or Martha (forgot which) even stayed so close to him and cleaned his feet?
Really no "one streak" of lustful thought? He most likely doesn't have any girlfriend, so that makes the problem even worse?
And since christians think that masturbation is a sin, so he never did that also!
secondly, if Jesus is not GOD and only a sinned man, he will not be able to atone for our sins and bring abt the new covenant. His death will be meaningless and our faith will be in vain. Probably we wont be called christians anyway. -
+1 !!!Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm....if the devil can personally tempted him and promised him all the powers in the world, and he still emerge victorious...wat do u think?
secondly, if Jesus is not GOD and only a sinned man, he will not be able to atone for our sins and bring abt the new covenant. His death will be meaningless and our faith will be in vain. Probably we wont be called christians anyway. -
I'm talking about something more fundamental, think Maslow's hierarchy of needs?Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm....if the devil can personally tempted him and promised him all the powers in the world, and he still emerge victorious...wat do u think?
Also, any average Jew will know such a promise is impossible, what's more an offer by the devil himself. It is so easy to resist the temptation cos it is so "fake".secondly, if Jesus is not GOD and only a sinned man, he will not be able to atone for our sins and bring abt the new covenant. His death will be meaningless and our faith will be in vain. Probably we wont be called christians anyway.
This is circular reasoning. -
in case anyone is blur what I'm getting at, picture this:
if Hitler is offered all the powers on Earth, there is no question he would grab it.
if a poor peasant is offered the same offer, he would say, "aiya no need lah, i am contented with what i have, 3 meals a day, a happy family, and a God who takes care of us .. we are poor but we are happy"
That's why I say the temptation is so fake.
PS: Peter Parker would emerge victorious too .. lol .. with great powers come great responsibility .. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Spider Man become Spider God....
PS: Peter Parker would emerge victorious too .. lol .. with great powers come great responsibility .. -
The irony is Jesus already has all the powers in the world (he is God right?) .. yet he still begged God the Father to pass the cup away from him.
Just like spiderman who threw away his spider suit .. lol
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Think you are thinking of Jesus and GOD as two separate entities. The Son will do nothing that contradicts the Father's will. The Son and the Father are one.Originally posted by Icemoon:The irony is Jesus already has all the powers in the world (he is God right?) .. yet he still begged God the Father to pass the cup away from him.
Just like spiderman who threw away his spider suit .. lol
The relationship between Jesus and GOD is the Son can do nothing without the Father and everything comes from the father. Everything Jesus did on Earth was in total obedience to the Father's will and not his own. All powers on Earth was given to him by the Father.
Undoubtedly, Jesus as human was tempted many times by the Devil. But in total obedience to the Father he emerged victorious. Jesus knew abt his role on Earth and even predicted his own death. I believed there was some inner struggle for Jesus as god the son & human. As god, he knew his sole purpose in coming to Earth was to follow the Father's will and help bring about the new convenant with his flesh and blood. He knew he will die carrying our sins however he still follow the Father's will.
As human he was sorrowful and grieved when his impending doom neared.
His human body made of flesh and blood was slashed many times and when he died his human body was pierced and warm blood oozes out. On Earth, he was every bit human like us, subjected to 1) birth of a woman 2) emotions of love, happiness, grieve, sorrows 3) temptations from the devil 4) human politics 5) death. The only difference is he is the son of GOD and he knew clearly abt his mission.
His total obedience to the Father only shows that he was the perfect human which everyone of us should emulate, which is to do the Father's will and not ours. Besides someone like spiderman, can u suggest anyone who can achieve the same feat on Earth? I dun think so. Jesus was probably the first and the last. -
I believed Jesus was tempted and went thru many tribulations as a human on Earth. If he was not the son of GOD and was just a man of sin like anyone of us, his death will not save anyone. His death will be in vain. Our faith will also be in vain. There is simply no point in following a dead/false messiah. We wouldn't become christians in the 1st place and would not have shared with u the good news here.Originally posted by Icemoon:This is circular reasoning.