how u pp got save by jesus christ & testimonies..
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hey we are saved by grace thro' faith which is correct, our works are a result of our faith... because we then work through (NOT FOR) our salvation. Go easy man... we are on the same side...Originally posted by laoda99:I believed we are saved by GOD's grace thru faith, however it is rather shallow to believe we are saved merely by having faith, as Apostle James has said:" Faith is dead without good works."
It is better to emulate Christ's faith and prove this faith by our actions. If not, we will just be like any pharisee who think they have great faith and refuse to help people even when they are in distress.
I was on my way to work two days ago with my friend and he couldn't help notice a woman reading the bible and not giving seat to an elderly lady standing infront of her. This friend is a non-believer. How to convince non-believers like my friend that we are going to heaven just becoz of our faith? -
Haha, I am not attacking u, just stating what I believe as a Christian.
I can't help notice that very often Christians lose to non-believers in terms of having concrete actions, becoz many just believed by having enuff faith it is everything. Even myself I am quite ashamed of my own selfishness sometimes. My friends who are non-believers are even more keen to help others than some Christians (including myself).
When non-believers see a statement like "You go heaven becoz of your faith", they see us us shallow bigots who think we belong to an exclusive social club.
As a result of this, people of other faiths are put off more than they are attracted by the gospel. Muslim scholars also criticized us for 'getting the easy way out' (faith no actions).
Think it is better to tell them that we also help people by following what Christ did. -
I couldnt help but to wholly agree on this.Originally posted by laoda99:Haha, I am just stating what I believe as a Christian.
I can't help notice that very often Christians lose to non-believers in terms of having concrete actions, becoz many just believed by having enuff faith it is everything. Even myself I am quite ashamed of my own selfishness sometimes.
When non-believers see a statement like "You go heaven becoz of your faith", they see us us shallow bigots who think we belong to an exclusive social club.
As a result of this, people of other faiths are put off more than they are attracted by the gospel. Muslim scholars also criticized us for 'getting the easy way out' (faith).
Think it is better to tell them that we also help people by following what Christ did.
Its very shallow just to emphasise on faith and worship alone.
It can even lead to extremism, just as the Islamic fundamentalists has show they are willing to even kill for their faith, even when Islam does not specifically say so or condone it.
It can potentially turn into blind faith, where people follow for the sake of following, thinking they have the answers when its not.
Each of such a person is potential Jim Jones, i dare say. -
My mum and friends whom are non-believers have always asked me:
"So anyone can go heaven just by believing in Christ?"
"Is God selfish by having a chosen people like the Israelites?"
They do not believe that a man who do many good deeds would go hell while big baddie "Christians"/butchers are going heaven just by 'having faith' in Christ. Think they have the notion that Christianity is a selfish faith which is more of saving oneself by believing in Christ.
Think the only way to win people to the gospel is to tell them that GOD loves all and he wants everyone to listen to the good news. He wants everyone to be saved, even criminals/big baddies.
Wish i myself can have enuff faith and do emulate Christ's gentleness and works. If not we will only be shaming Christ and responsible for putting off people and indirectly making them lose their salvation. -
So what if you are going to heaven? Anybody who dies goes to Heaven for Judgement. When you mention "save", what do you mean by it?Originally posted by breytonhartge:there is no such thing as luck... and yes, I AM GOING TO HEAVEN, like many of us have said before, you are not saved because of your good works, you are saved by faith. -
Very complex question. For myself i believe 'save' means being not excluded from God's kingdom. It is true that evryone will be judged accordingly by GOD's standards. Think he is the only one who can say we have enuff faith and did enuff to be included in his kingdom.Originally posted by shade343:So what if you are going to heaven? Anybody who dies goes to Heaven for Judgement. When you mention "save", what do you mean by it?
Faith is essential as we acknowledge the Son who is the only one able to save us from sins and death. But I wouldn't just count on mere believing that would get me the ticket to heaven. -
Look at the various debates raging among different church groups on sections of the bibles or whose church has the correct answer.
Everyone says they are saved and going to heaven in time to come.
Since when they become god and declare themselves saved or saints? -
Agree with you that there are many disputes who has the correct answer.Originally posted by laurence82:Look at the various debates raging among different church groups on sections of the bibles or whose church has the correct answer.
Everyone says they are saved and going to heaven in time to come.
Since when they become god and declare themselves saved or saints?
I am from Presbyterian whom believed that reformed christianity has the most rational approach in knowing GOD's words, however I myself do not believe that only reformed christianity has all the answers. To say this would be acting like GOD.
I feel some other denominations also have good answers. GOD wants to save all, and not just a selected group of people. Believing in the Son is just the first basic step in getting yourself saved. Think there are many things to be developed from there once u believed, not just believe for once and later forgot everything one should do to honour GOD.
Think as Christians we are subjected to even close scrutiny when some 'claimed to have exclusive rights to go heaven'. When pastors/priests did something wrong or break the law people will lose confidence in the faith.
Non believers are also put off by insensitive behaviours of fellow christians.
Think Christians should be mindful of their roles as ambassadors to GOD, rather than fiery evangelists who claimed "u will go hell u idolator". -
here we go again - can we juz revert back to the original topic of "sharing how you got save" rather than sharing what you think will get you saved?
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whats the diff anyway?Originally posted by Ito_^:here we go again - can we juz revert back to the original topic of "sharing how you got save" rather than sharing what you think will get you saved? -
got. one is discussion, other is arguing.Originally posted by laurence82:whats the diff anyway? 
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Same difference.Originally posted by Ito_^:got. one is discussion, other is arguing. -
got la..Originally posted by laurence82:Same difference. -
ok...sorryOriginally posted by Ito_^:here we go again - can we juz revert back to the original topic of "sharing how you got save" rather than sharing what you think will get you saved?
I 'got saved' (as in accepted Christ) as a teenager when I went to one of the indoor stadium christmas celebrations. I did not develop my faith as my family was against and I gradually drifted away from GOD.
But GOD did not forsake me as when many years later, I met my gf who is also a christian. At that time I also discovered I have Hep C. Believing in Christ had helped me battle my disease. I discovered I did not have many of the drastic side effects from my high doses of toxic medication. I am still undergoing treatment now (half way) and so far it has been surprisingly tolerable (read many bad experiences from overseas people who is also undergoing the same treatment). At the same time, I also managed to got into university now at my late twenties, after some years as a regular officer, which is unbelieving even for me.
Just want to say it is my own experience, I am also very skeptical like many others who would say "ah...this is luck.....you believe what u wanna believe..."...but it is my own experience tat God loves me. -
seriously i dont see the diff...oh well....Originally posted by Ito_^:got la.. -
Ho seh lah .. i've been waiting to start a tulip thread but scared no one understand .. hahaOriginally posted by laoda99:Agree with you that there are many disputes who has the correct answer.
I am from Presbyterian whom believed that reformed christianity has the most rational approach in knowing GOD's words, however I myself do not believe that only reformed christianity has all the answers. To say this would be acting like GOD. -
In the end, what is important to your relationship with God.Originally posted by Ito_^:what?? its good to learn more wad.. den stuck halfway like me meh?
Knowledge puffs. Instead, Seek wisdom of God, young one. -
Sometimes not because no one don't understand.Originally posted by Icemoon:Ho seh lah .. i've been waiting to start a tulip thread but scared no one understand .. haha
What so good about discussing differences? Still doesn't answer the non believers over the confusion we've caused.
So many explaination but no facts and no answers to people.
IMO, Grey areas of christianity does more harm than good to Christian belief.
Those who know are sian of this kind topic liao, example - me.
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got more gray areas and topics to dicuss de.. like.. born again christian or born christian, which is better arh?
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I heard born again christians' faith are stronger.Originally posted by Ito_^:got more gray areas and topics to dicuss de.. like.. born again christian or born christian, which is better arh? -
I'm not discussing differences.Originally posted by M©+square:What so good about discussing differences? Still doesn't answer the non believers over the confusion we've caused.
So many explaination but no facts and no answers to people.
I just hope the xtians here delve more into theology. Tulip is laoda99's denominational heritage. The perspective may just give some new insight.
I have some insights to share with non believers and believers too, it will be part of my "eternal wisdom series", coming soon -
Seek wisdom != knowledge??Originally posted by M©+square:Knowledge puffs. Instead, Seek wisdom of God, young one.
At the end of the day, the real wisdom is just throw away the bible and believe in the One God in the Shema of Israel.
Micah 6:8 - He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God -
Mis quote again?Originally posted by Icemoon:Seek wisdom != knowledge??
At the end of the day, the real wisdom is just throw away the bible and believe in the One God in the Shema of Israel.
Micah 6:8 - He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God
Wisdom does not equate to knowledge.
Prov 2:6,9-11 (NIV) For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.... Then you will understand what is right and just and fair--every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you.
1 Cor 8:1 - 3 Now in regard to meat sacrificed to idols: we realize that "all of us have knowledge"; knowledge inflates with pride, but love builds up. If anyone supposes he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if one loves God, one is known by him.
The great spirit filled corinthian Church thought having knowledge is also having spiritual understanding.
The part about them which Paul was frustrated about - their pride.
Cheers -
dats wad i heard oso..Originally posted by Icemoon:I heard born again christians' faith are stronger. -
simpler layman terns, a person needs wisdom to control his knowledge, and not the other way round. lucifer would be one example, i guess.Originally posted by M©+square:Mis quote again?
Wisdom does not equate to knowledge.
Prov 2:6,9-11 (NIV) For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.... Then you will understand what is right and just and fair--every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you.
1 Cor 8:1 - 3 Now in regard to meat sacrificed to idols: we realize that "all of us have knowledge"; knowledge inflates with pride, but love builds up. If anyone supposes he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if one loves God, one is known by him.
The great spirit filled corinthian Church thought having knowledge is also having spiritual understanding.
The part about them which Paul was frustrated about - their pride.
Cheers
but what is wisdom?