something to ask the christian frens here..
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that means you don't like christianity at all. if you have 100% faith in Jesus, you will go to heaven even if you are Hitler.Originally posted by shade343:I dont like the way certain churches twist the words of the bible...especially the tithing part and the promise of "eternal life".
So what if you have 100% faith in jesus? If you have not cleared your karmic baggage, its unlikely you can get into heaven.
get it?
SO.. they did not twist the words of the Bible. truly.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:Sorry guys... there is only one way to God... don't want to put it to you that way... but that is it. Call me judgemental, arrogant or whatever you want... I know what works.... if you just take sometime to think about it, the complexity of the world and the things that are in it, the seasons, the stars, the rain and the sun... that cannot be evolution.
Just as I expected...Most Christians are unlikely to accept the fact that all religions in the world came from GOD. They always think that theirs is better and their religion is the only way to god.
Let me give you another illustration. How do you reach Suntec City?
You can reach there by either car, bus 518, Take MRT to City Hall or walk there. There are many ways to reach there. Just pick the one which you prefer. There is no such thing as there is only 1 way.
Same thing applies to God as well. -
Originally posted by Ito_^:that means you don't like christianity at all. if you have 100% faith in Jesus, you will go to heaven even if you are Hitler. get it?
SO.. they did not twist the words of the Bible. truly. -
is it!? where??Originally posted by shade343:The Bible does mention about reincarnation. You should read it again carefully keeping the idea of reincarnation in your mind
The Bible also speaks about karma.
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Everyone is subjected to the laws of karma. There is no such thing as you kill 100people, believe in jesus 100% and go to heaven permanently.Originally posted by earthlings73:yup, agree to a certain degree. just to add that without a religious belief system, it doesnt mean that a person will definitely turn evil too.
an atheist can also believe in what goes around comes around. a just-world hypothesis.
hence, i will do my good deeds so that the world will become a better place for all, regardless of what you believe in.
Ultimately at the end of the day, you will be judged based on your actions and not what the bible says.
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What piques my interest is the fact that christians keep on saying that as long as you believe 100% in jesus you get to go to heaven permanently.Originally posted by breytonhartge:yes religion all comes from the same source... MAN not GOD.
The arabs are half brothers to the jews, and they believe in the same God, but that is where it ends. The do not see Jesus as the messiah... which He is.
Ultimately... if you guys don't want to believe... then don't. Your choice, your road to walk. And why is it that only non-believers will come hassel us Christians in our forum when we leave all you all alone? There must be somethin in it... so like I said don't take your moral high grounds, the reason why you are even in this forum is because there is something that piques your interest...
And the reasons they give for human suffering are.....funny. -
Sin, from Biblical viewpoint is not what you described. Seriously, where does it say all those?Originally posted by shade343:Sin came about because of the negative karma generated by man. These negative karma is generated because man is arrogant, egoistic and proud. The only way karmic debt can be cleared is through suffering. So the reason why you suffer now is because of karmic debt. Jesus suffered so he could help us clear our karmic debt. But he cannot clear ALL our karmic debt, if he did it, I would have been in heaven by now.
Sin was first introduced from the temptation of Adam by Lucifer, and it passes down generations after generations.
Jesus died to pay for all the sins of mankind, but does not prevent the inherent source of sin within man, so that part is correct.
When a person believes in God, and give their all to God - he will accept suffering and do good as a natural function, like breathing. But not, as a means of salvation.
If I can remove my karmic debt of the murder of one person, by rescueing two people, than I can simply go out kill one person, and rescue two and all will be forgotten. So this paradox still exists in so called grace by works.
I don't know if you understand the meaning of "doing good as a natural function". That means, doing good if there is no salvation (since a faithful believer has already attained salvation), doing good if there is no repayment, doing good even if you won't be thanked for, doing good for others and not for yourself.
This is the tough part, people usually do good works so they themselves can get saved in the afterlife. But if you are assured of a pernament place in heaven, would you want to continue to do good for mankind and continue to suffer? -
Everyone is subjected to the laws of karma. There is no such thing as you kill 100people, believe in jesus 100% and go to heaven permanently.
Karma does not operate in the world, the Laws of God do... who do you think created the world... as I rightly read all your posts, you all believe in God, but refuse to believe in His son and His message of salvation, this i find strange. The bible is the word of God, so if you believe in God, then why not the bible?
Ultimately at the end of the day, you will be judged based on your actions and not what the bible says.
trusting that you can be saved by your own works is true arrogance, to think that you are so good that you can make it. Look at it this way... there is no difference between big sin and small sin... sin is sin and do you think that anyone can lead a totally sin free life? Because the moment you lose your cool, you are sinning... when you gossip and talk badly about someone, you are sinning... if you tell a white lie, you sin... so that is why i cling to the cross and Jesus because i know then that God does not impute sin to me. I am cleansed by the blood of the lamb and I am the righteousness of God in Christ.
Lets test your theory of reincarnation... if that holds true, then the world should be getting better all the time right? The basis for reincarnation being that you are coming back to do better to reach the next level and finally nivarna... ie Heaven... But the exact opposite is occuring...the world is getting crueller, meaner... more wars, man becomes more depraved... how then do you people who believe in reincarnation justify this? therefore I can say that this does not work... and where exactly in the bible is reincarnation mentioned? Exact verse and book of the bible please... please do not talk about what you do not know. -
hey shade343, one quick question, do you want to go to heaven? Do you want that guarantee? If we christians all say the same thing... then it must be true
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From a Christian view point, that is sheer blesphamy. I don't think Muslim would buy into that either. Other than religious, its a fact of life - Dream on!Originally posted by shade343:What I mean is something like this:
GOD
ll
ll
Hinduisim, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, etc etc
ll
ll
MAN
As you can see, there are many paths to god. Its up to the individual. If you feel comfortable praying to jesus, by all means pray to jesus. If you feel comfortable praying to Guan yin, by all means pray to her. If you feel more comfortable praying to other gods of other religion, by all means do so.
There is no need to convert just becos someone tell you that you will go to hell if you dont believe in jesus.(You think jesus is happy with the person who said that?)
What matters most at the end of the day is your actions. Do good and be good. What goes around comes around
Jesus would be happy that this person is telling the truth, in fact he said that himself. Only through Him and Him alone.
By accepting other means of getting to God is downright insult to the Christianity, this is another iron fact.. no debate will change that. We have our different opinions and stuff.
What matters most at the end of the day is whether you believe or not, the actions are the natural consequence of true believers. You caught a flu, you sneeze. Thats the idea. -
den what the hell is the Bible for huh? story book is it.Originally posted by shade343:Everyone is subjected to the laws of karma. There is no such thing as you kill 100people, believe in jesus 100% and go to heaven permanently.
Ultimately at the end of the day, you will be judged based on your actions and not what the bible says. 
Karma = No Such Thing. If you kill 100 people, and later you repent wholeheartedly (and I'm not saying saying sorry) and believe in Jesus, you go to heaven permanently. It happened when Jesus was crucified, the two criminals beside Him followed Jesus to heaven because they believe. He said, fine, come with me and they went. Simple as that.
This is Christianity, whether you like it or not, this won't change.
See? Thats why religions are not the same. So darn different, how could you glump Island, Hindu, Christianity, etc, all together like rojak. IMO, trying to glue everything together is funnier. -
Some others are worse, from Freud's Taboo and Totem. He mentioned that some primitive tribes view taboos as a dieases that can transmit through touch. If you do something bad, and someone who was innocent touches you, that person will be treated as guilty as you whom he may accidentally touched.Originally posted by shade343:What piques my interest is the fact that christians keep on saying that as long as you believe 100% in jesus you get to go to heaven permanently.
And the reasons they give for human suffering are.....funny.
Funny or not, these are the absolute truth that Christianity would really die and fight for. When you think of how many people died because of that, its not really funny any more.
Either you hate it, or you love it. And either way, you die for it. -
Then I fear you have misunderstand the bible.Originally posted by Ito_^:den what the hell is the Bible for huh? story book is it.
Karma = No Such Thing. If you kill 100 people, and later you repent wholeheartedly (and I'm not saying saying sorry) and believe in Jesus, you go to heaven permanently. It happened when Jesus was crucified, the two criminals beside Him followed Jesus to heaven because they believe. He said, fine, come with me and they went. Simple as that.
This is Christianity, whether you like it or not, this won't change.
See? Thats why religions are not the same. So darn different, how could you glump Island, Hindu, Christianity, etc, all together like rojak. IMO, trying to glue everything together is funnier. The Bible is merely a guide and to a certain extent, as you have put it, a story book.
Refer to my above post on what I thought of when jesus told the criminal that he was going to heaven. He was basically trying to tell him that he will be goin to heaven to be judged. -
Yah! I want to go to heaven!Originally posted by breytonhartge:hey shade343, one quick question, do you want to go to heaven? Do you want that guarantee? If we christians all say the same thing... then it must be true -
then believe in Jesus... you will have a guarantee... if you really are seeking, then send me a message... the bible is a story book it is the History book of the Jews, this is their life story recorded for us... it is also a book about HIS story... Gods story... it is our guide to how God would have us live... and our guide as the what Laws and principles of God are at work on this earth.
It also says in the bible,
Mark 4:11-12
11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!' -
So what if other people dont believe that?Originally posted by Ito_^:From a Christian view point, that is sheer blesphamy. I don't think Muslim would buy into that either. Other than religious, its a fact of life - Dream on!
Jesus would be happy that this person is telling the truth, in fact he said that himself. Only through Him and Him alone.
By accepting other means of getting to God is downright insult to the Christianity, this is another iron fact.. no debate will change that. We have our different opinions and stuff.
What matters most at the end of the day is whether you believe or not, the actions are the natural consequence of true believers. You caught a flu, you sneeze. Thats the idea. Thats the reason why we have religious wars. People refuse to believe that all religion came from one source which is GOD. These people are arrogant, Always claiming that their religion is the "one and only true" religion.
You tell me lah. Got any religion teach you to kill people? Got any religion teach you to steal? Got any religion tell you that killing in the name of god is a right thing to do? Got any religion tell you that raping somebody is ok? NO RIGHT?
What do religion teach you? They teach you to be good and do good. In fact, ALL religion teach you to be good and do good. And why is that so? Because they came from the same source. -
actually shade343, yes go read the koran... they are the only ones who talk about Jihad.. or holy war... which is never ever mentioned in the bible....
don't you get it... religion is MAN made not from GOD, that is why we have religious wars... because they are driven by man... GOD never told anyone to go to war except to the isrealites when they conquered the promise land... even in the time of the crusades and the spanish inquisition... all driven by mans evil desire, God had nothing to do with it. Nowhere did Jesus ever mention going to war... in fact He said in Romans 12:18
If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. -
No, its not arrogance. Its something they believe in with absolute faith. Not that I have that abolute faith thing, but many does.Originally posted by shade343:
Just as I expected...Most Christians are unlikely to accept the fact that all religions in the world came from GOD. They always think that theirs is better and their religion is the only way to god.
Let me give you another illustration. How do you reach Suntec City?
You can reach there by either car, bus 518, Take MRT to City Hall or walk there. There are many ways to reach there. Just pick the one which you prefer. There is no such thing as there is only 1 way.
Same thing applies to God as well.
Its not better, its true and untrue. How do you reach the Moon? Space shutter right, I don't think there is bus 512 or MRT or other ways. Same thing applies to the Christian God as well.
As for why Christian thinks that some other religions are inferior, you have to understand - rather than calling them arrogant fools all the time, try to see from their viewpoint - when Lucifer have influence over the world as we know it, he started doing copies of religious and miracles to make people believe that he is god and there are other means of salvation - like.. him!
Evil spirits, often seem to do good so that people will be awed by their mercy and grace and worship them. Problem is, their intentions were not good, and after gaining their trust, they were used to eliminate the true Church.
These other deities, to Christian faith, are demons, spirits and angels worshipping but not God Himself. They also offer powers to their believers, in forms of spells and witchcrafts (which is more like elimination of pagan religion by the Church).
That is why the only way, is through Jesus and Jesus alone - unless you are considering Judaism, or Islam.
The problem with believers for all religions are their ignorance of other religions and the fact that these must be taken and treated individually and uniquely - even they may be interwined culturally. This is the part where I will fight for, because I truely believe in it.
Arrogance is when some bastard, thinks he is better and literally treats you like Shit. Humility is when the same bastard thinks he is better, but still treats you like a friend. And to Christians, a good friend would want his friends to end up in Heaven - and thus saving your friends became the main Church policy and ended up as a gesture of being a Christian.
But the essential part is that la. Even if we have some siao gin nah running around forcing people to Church.
But I'm not really a good friend so, I don't care. And I don't like to force ppl go leh. Wus the bloody point, not good practice u noe. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Karma does not operate in the world, the Laws of God do... who do you think created the world... as I rightly read all your posts, you all believe in God, but refuse to believe in His son and His message of salvation, this i find strange. The bible is the word of God, so if you believe in God, then why not the bible?
trusting that you can be saved by your own works is true arrogance, to think that you are so good that you can make it. Look at it this way... there is no difference between big sin and small sin... sin is sin and do you think that anyone can lead a totally sin free life? Because the moment you lose your cool, you are sinning... when you gossip and talk badly about someone, you are sinning... if you tell a white lie, you sin... so that is why i cling to the cross and Jesus because i know then that God does not impute sin to me. I am cleansed by the blood of the lamb and I am the righteousness of God in Christ.
Lets test your theory of reincarnation... if that holds true, then the world should be getting better all the time right? The basis for reincarnation being that you are coming back to do better to reach the next level and finally nivarna... ie Heaven... But the exact opposite is occuring...the world is getting crueller, meaner... more wars, man becomes more depraved... how then do you people who believe in reincarnation justify this? therefore I can say that this does not work... and where exactly in the bible is reincarnation mentioned? Exact verse and book of the bible please... please do not talk about what you do not know.
The Law of Karma is a Law from God. The Bible isnt a direct fax from heaven. It has been written by man. And throughout the ages, there might be some inaccuracies in it as new editions are being published. The bible is no longer 100% accurate.
Who says I dont believe in his Son? I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, I believe in Lord Guan Yin and I also believe in Lord Bhrama.
Reincarnation simply means being born again in this world to suffer.
Why do you think some people are born rich and some poor?
Why do you think some people are born healthy and some are born disabled?
Why do you think some people die in their sleep healthy and happy while some other die of cancer or serious illness?
Why is there unequal birth and unequal death in this world?
Whoever says that reincarnation makes your life better? God simply puts you where you belong based on your past life and actions.
The bible does speak about reincarnation. Although it is not stated explicitly, it does mention or hint about it. Read between the lines. -
Where got.. u say got can quote it out, and explain anot. Dun say got jiu got.. anyhow. Annoying leh.Originally posted by shade343:
The Law of Karma is a Law from God. The Bible isnt a direct fax from heaven. It has been written by man. And throughout the ages, there might be some inaccuracies in it as new editions are being published. The bible is no longer 100% accurate.
Who says I dont believe in his Son? I believe in Lord Jesus Christ, I believe in Lord Guan Yin and I also believe in Lord Bhrama.
Reincarnation simply means being born again in this world to suffer.
Why do you think some people are born rich and some poor?
Why do you think some people are born healthy and some are born disabled?
Why do you think some people die in their sleep healthy and happy while some other die of cancer or serious illness?
Why is there unequal birth and unequal death in this world?
Whoever says that reincarnation makes your life better? God simply puts you where you belong based on your past life and actions.
The bible does speak about reincarnation. Although it is not stated explicitly, it does mention or hint about it. Read between the lines.
And what if Lord Jesus Christ say, believe in him only, den Lord Guan Yin say, dun listen to Jesus, listen to me, den Lord Bhrama say dun listen others, listen to me oso.
How you gonna choose har?
The Bible is true, and the meaning must be constant even if the words are different. If you really want to know, you can go study the Bible in latin. And the original manuscripts etc. -
i'm always interested in religions..Originally posted by breytonhartge:yes religion all comes from the same source... MAN not GOD.
The arabs are half brothers to the jews, and they believe in the same God, but that is where it ends. The do not see Jesus as the messiah... which He is.
Ultimately... if you guys don't want to believe... then don't. Your choice, your road to walk. And why is it that only non-believers will come hassel us Christians in our forum when we leave all you all alone? There must be somethin in it... so like I said don't take your moral high grounds, the reason why you are even in this forum is because there is something that piques your interest...
because i'm open-minded..
unlike what u have claimed..
i will not denounce a belief without going through it.. =p
just like i've always interested in Buddhistic principles.. -
so my dear shade343, what is the point of reincarnation?
Are you sure the bible is inaccurate? It is the word of God. Do not go there... the bible is accurate and IT IS THE WORD OF GOD. Becareful lest to bring the judgement of God on yourself.
Is that your only point? That there is inequality in the world... don't you know, that we are the problem for all these things and not God...
If you read the bible, God mentions so many times that He wants to do good for us... Jeremiah 29: 11-13
11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Because man sinned, we have suffering... if read Genesis, it tells the story... we initially had everything given to us.. but because we sinned, God banished man from the Garden of Eden. If you want to blame anyone for sin and suffering, then blame Satan or the devil, its his fault! Put the blame where the blame should be. -
ok la.. discussion la.. not even debate ok?Originally posted by earthlings73:i'm always interested in religions..
because i'm open-minded.. unlike what u have claimed..
i will not denounce a belief without going through it.. =p
just like i've always interested in Buddhistic principles..
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Nah.. Coersion is not something the Buddhist encourage..Originally posted by Ito_^:Where got.. u say got can quote it out, and explain anot. Dun say got jiu got.. anyhow. Annoying leh.
And what if Lord Jesus Christ say, believe in him only, den Lord Guan Yin say, dun listen to Jesus, listen to me, den Lord Bhrama say dun listen others, listen to me oso.
How you gonna choose har?
The Bible is true, and the meaning must be constant even if the words are different. If you really want to know, you can go study the Bible in latin. And the original manuscripts etc.
Buddha himself said that "believe only those principles that will help you in life".. They operated using principles.. In contrast with the rules book by Christianity..
Hence, Guan Yin will not sak you not to listen to Jesus.. She will encourage you to think for yourself.. -
okay lar.. think i will soften my approach lar..Originally posted by Ito_^:ok la.. discussion la.. not even debate ok?
i gotten drawn into this simply bcos of the claim that christianity is the BETTER religion.. which is kind of egoistic mah.. trying to negate such thoughts..
esp when this thread is abt faith healing.. not a thread to preach mah.. =P