something to ask the christian frens here..
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I have a feeling he is from CHC.. all my postings are not blind carbon copy of what Pastor Kong teaches, but how I understand and reinterprate in my own words.. his words seem.. copied.Originally posted by Icemoon:anyway what breytonhartge just "preached" to us sounds so familiar .. it carries the flavour of the preaching from rock auditorium.
I am not familar with the 20% part though, we were never asked for 20%, only 10% and basically, I wasn't told I will be cursed if I don't offer that 10%. -
Hey, since this topic is so hot, I wanna ask Christians.
What is your take on piracy? Both online (BT, Kazaa) and offline. -
a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny.
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Ahhaha... now THAT's funny.... If that's the case isn't god sinning against himself if he sets authorities to impose upon the death sentence to murderers? ( murderers are also god's children mah )Originally posted by stellazio:a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny.
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I see his intentions but.. yah. Damm funny way to put things.Originally posted by stellazio:a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny.
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No leh .. he said he knows chc thru his mum and brother.Originally posted by Ito_^:I have a feeling he is from CHC.. all my postings are not blind carbon copy of what Pastor Kong teaches, but how I understand and reinterprate in my own words.. his words seem.. copied.
I been to a few chc services, maybe I not been to enuff but does Reverend Kong talk like that?
I been to quite a few Rock bible study sessions (enjoyed it, unlike chc) and his words are like 80% from the pulpit (*).
Ok, maybe "charismatic" pastors talk like that .. haha
* this is rubbish, for the Rock doesn't preach from the pulpit .. they preach below the pulpit
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erm you mean the government is god choose one? that means we didn't choose the government and that means we don't have free will?Originally posted by stellazio:a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny. -
je's just giving an example tat u shud follow the rules set upon you.in simple words.be a good law abiding citizen and dun commit crimes.
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probably my last post for a long time to come,
The effectiveness of a miracle healing only takes place when these conditions are met:
the question is Benny hill can heal a person, well, almost at his own will confidently such tat it seems he do not fulfil your criteria 3. Anyway frankly to me psychologically speaking, the first criteria give people the feeling the victim himself is at fault if he was not healed, the second criteria is to make the healer himself special so he can benefit something from it, and the third criteria is to prevent people from proving him wrong, and also a reason why real genuine cases of disability/diesease cannot get healed
1. The patient must be wholeheartedly faithful and believe in God.
2. There must be a presence of God with the healer.
3. God happy if the person is healed. You can put it dat way.Anyways, I don't believe that Benny Hinn can pull out a stunt in Singapore, we're a small nation, if its a fruad, words will spread pretty fast. Before long, rumours will be flying around.
I believe u r wrong in tis. If its a fraud, they will go back to your point 1 or 3 and simply says tat god is not happy with tat person and he is not healedSo that includes the possibility of either he has the presence of God with him just that his attitude sucks so he kept misinterpreting God's words, or evil sprits are working through him, so they can twist the word of God even by a little bit.
It simply prove psychology principle of mind over bodyAs for those medical examinations, they claim their doctors say its a miracle, even one time during the service, there were two non-Christian Indian ambulance first aiders, whom were there to make sure their stretcher bound patient don't die suddenly, were freaked out when the dude stood up and walks normally. The pastor laid his hands on them, but they didn't receive the spirit but I can tell they were really freaked out.. or is it amazed.
Personal opinion, these 2 indian r probably paid to stand by in a church. Maybe the only thing they r amazed with is similar to someone seeing a magic show or somethingNormally, doctors will go.. Oh. A miracle! But lets leave it to that. Its only if they publicly release these medical records, no matter how technical eh?
Trust me, there r many doctors and researchers who wanna write paper or anything to make an impact to society... if it is really worth mentioning, they should go ahead and do itThis slaining of the spirits did occur, the entire choir went down because of that.. Some of my cellgroup members were there and they were like.. whoa!!
in america there was a famous fraud tat do tis kind of cheating before as well. He touch a person forehead and claim he was healed before he fall down himself.There was another called the holy laughter, or something, I never encountered it before until the last indoor stadium service I attended, personally I think it sounded like some siao char boh gone nuts, and following it was literally mentioned by one of the sisters ".. It's been such a long time since I've experienced holy laughter." This was many months ago.. In fact Benny Hinn events were quite some time ago, funny how this case is mentioned now and not then. Why?
The idea of holy laughter makes me tickled. Anyway doesn't tat make benny hinn something above god by literally throwing holy spirit(god) like softball ?Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with God.
Really, u go and see the IC on "religion" and see if there is a christianity printed on it. Hey man, why does the word religion become a dirty word tat nobody want to be classified as such ? Buddhist also say they r not a religion because they only teach the truth or something. Then wat can be classified as a religion ? Cults ?so whatever people say or think about Benny hinn or any other faith healer or preacher... be careful... these men and women of God have saved many souls much more than we have done... so who are we to criticise them?
If I believe him to be genuine, then I am sadly a christian. I believe they r fraud, tat is why I am here to tell people to look at it from a rational point of view. Sai baba or people from other faith also display this kind of acts as well, so we should start believe in him ?With regards to tithing... you either get why you do it or you don't... read psalms 50:10-12... for every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills, I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine.... for the world is Mine, and all its fullness... following this all that we have belongs to God anyway... who gave you what you have?
Tat is silly, from the bible u can say he gave u things but it doesn't means he want it back. U think god have an ulterior motive for giving u these things ?but if you read Malachi 3:8-12.... if we do not tithe, we are robbing God and we will be under a curse... but get this... this is the only time in the bible that God challenges us... He says try me now in this (tithing) and see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it... now giving is voluntary... but you have to know that by not giving, you are robbing God.. so you go figure....
yeah, but wat else he said in the book of malanchi ? U r already not following many of its laws and they say u r gonna to hell. Which is more terrible ?
malachi 4:4 Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.see also leviticus 27:31.. if any man wants to redeem (or Keep) the tithe, he shall add a fifth to it...(20%)...
yah lor, he also set a value of man and woman on tat chapter and place the value at fifty shekels and thirty shekels of silver repectively. So women has lesser value than men ?Proverbs 3:9-10 honour the Lord with your possessions, and with the FIRSTFRUITS OF ALL YOUR INCREASE, but note God says this with a promise that as we do it, He will fill our barns (now our bank accounts) with plenty and your vats will overflow
yah lor. Then why keep the money as condo or cars ? Should keep donating all the money u have and u will see much more return mah.
In short, u know wat ? U r tilthing because u r sort of investing the money and want something bigger back in return ? Might as well give money and ask for 4D number right ?regarding healing... you just have to believe it... Jesus healed you on the cross 2000 years ago...
Then u just have to belieev in Sai baba or goddess tat cry milk lor. u just have to believe dumbly mah... jesus healed u on the cross ? How do u know ? R we any different before he die and after he die ? We still fall sick and we still die isn't it ?It also says in the bible that according to your faith it shall be done for you... so what is the limiting factor here... us not God... see Matt 9:29 and see also Mark 9:23 anything is possible to him who believes...
If everything is possible then fly and let people see lor. If they can fly ven aftre proper and scientific examination, trust me I will be the first to join christainity and tilth all my moneywe have to seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto us... read in context, Jesus was talking about clothing and food and the cares of this world and the riches that Jesus said the gentiles are after... He will give us all of it, we just have to make God our first priority
then why r there christians dying of hunger and suffer poverty ?we as people who believe in Christ and God and the Holy Spirit have a calling, to spread the gospel and to save souls... the only reason for finances is to SAVE SOULS... that is it plain and simple... even though we are not of the world, we are in the world and lets face it to accomplish all the work we need finances... we cannot just say to someone who has a problem "God bless you" and do nothing... finances are needed to show practical love to people who have need... crusades need money, spreading the word needs money... and God will get the finances to those who are willing to do what God wants...
I thought u say tat as long as u believe money will filled barns, drop from sky and anything become possible as long as u believe ? Now u say they r not possible and money still have to be given ? Doesn't tat contradict wat god promises ?that is not to say that I agree with pastor Kong and CHC... I am a Christian and I know of CHC through my brother and mother who have gone there, I have to admit that some things are questionable... I have heard lots of stories.. but will not comment further on the subject... about Pastor Kong, it is between him and God... for teachers of the word are doubly responsible
com'on, it is between u and he if he is out to cheat your money. I thought u wanna save souls by spreading the word ? Wat if he is the devil in disguise ? Aren't u not following god word by letting people fall in by doing nothing ? -
haha maybe he choose bad way to put it i guess since government and law not set by god one. dunno why he has to make it into connected to god anywayOriginally posted by stellazio:je's just giving an example tat u shud follow the rules set upon you.in simple words.be a good law abiding citizen and dun commit crimes. -
SIS, what's wrong? Someone bullied you here?
Seriously, what's wrong?
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Ah..Originally posted by stellazio:a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny.
Government = God.. -
to all my fellow believers out there...
i did not mean to preach, yes it is from the rock, I attend new creation church whenever I am back in Singapore... I AM NOT FROM CHC, I was confirmed in Wesley Methodist and have also attended St Andrews and Calvary.
but I speak from what I know to be true in my life with regards to God and His provision for my life.
just to clarify, if salvation is by works... then what did Jesus die for? We would not have need for a saviour if we could earn our way into Heaven... our works are a by product of our salvation... so if you are saying ito that this is debatable, then you are saying that you need to work for your salvation? This would be contrary to what the bible says... lets make it clear.... there is only ONE WAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE SAVED AND IT IS THROUGH JESUS, BY GRACE AND NOT ANY OTHER WAY... Jesus said no one comes to the father except through me... it is only by Gods grace that the isrealites did not see the messiah the first time He came otherwise, it would be game over for the rest of us... God in His love, grace and mercy gave US the second chance...
I refuse to accept the term religion because religion is a man made and a concoction of all that is legalistic which was exactly what Jesus was against in the pharisees.
also dear ito... we can question to clarify doubts, criticism is another matter altogether... yes God's anointed may not be perfect, that is why we are always to focus on that which is and it is Jesus...
Giving is one thing correct and all of us would like to know where the money ends up, but the better way is to pray and ask God/Holy Spirit for guidance and discernment about what we are giving to before we give....
I will not go into a discussion about Ps Kong and his church, I think Ito you are from CHC... so lets just leave it at that, there is no man that is better than another and for all the discussions and dialogue that go on here, the main thing is that we are all going to see each other in heaven, the problem with the term of christianity as a religion is that because of the different denominations that we assume, there is so much politics within the church and fighting that when unbelievers look at us they just have to wonder...
with regards to the 20% it only applies when we redeem the tithe or in laypersons terms we keep the tithe. see leviticus 27. read malachi again chapter 3... ye are under a curse because you rob God in your tithe... the OT still applies, Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
For all the people out there who think that the OT is too hard, it is too hard, but that is why we need Jesus, because through Him we are seen as righteous! Amen.. But to dismiss the OT as irrelevant, we are missing out on all the promises and riches that God has in store for us... to them that say christians should be poor, I say rubbish, look at all of God's people, they were blessed here on earth, not in heaven, this was all recorded... I challenge all of you believers out there to start seeking and living in the full favour of God and not just His accidental favour... I know it to be true because I see it in my life. I am blessed beyond and above all that you could ever think or ask, and this not through my own efforts, but by God's FAVOUR on my life. God works we don't. We just have to seek Him.. our only business as His children. -
Agreed to a certain extend.Originally posted by stupidissmart:probably my last post for a long time to come,
com'on, it is between u and he if he is out to cheat your money. I thought u wanna save souls by spreading the word ? Wat if he is the devil in disguise ? Aren't u not following god word by letting people fall in by doing nothing ?
I would say it is the mystery of God.
God is not fraud.
But we can't say that on men, every single men. -
to stupidissmart,
I thought u say tat as long as u believe money will filled barns, drop from sky and anything become possible as long as u believe ? Now u say they r not possible and money still have to be given ? Doesn't tat contradict wat god promises ?
you don't get it, the money is for showing the practical application of Gods love to the world. no there is no contradiction here. You can choose to live in your lack of provision or you can choose to believe in a God who can provide above and abundantly... it is up to you really, you have free choice... so which would you rather have?
And why do all of us believe in Jesus, because He is the only one that promises us salvation and guarantees us a place in HEAVEN, can buddah or saibaba or any of the other religions give you that sort of guarantee?
yes Gods purpose in giving us health and wealth and prosperity is so that we may accomplish His purposes here on earth, while there is still time. That is why we have Jesus, so that we are not under law, but under GRACE. The law no longer applies because we are under GRACE, that is why it says that blessed it the man to whom the LORD does not impute sin... and that applies to all believers because Jesus took our sins... can any other religion do that?yah lor. Then why keep the money as condo or cars ? Should keep donating all the money u have and u will see much more return mah.
no tithing is not investing money it is doing it Gods way, the law of seed time and harvest, besides, this way I have a guaranteed return of at least 30 times, is there any guarantee in the 4d numbers? and yes I will give the condo, my car and anything else that God asks me to give because i know that the more we give, the more we will receive AMEN! God is my all sufficiency, not my job, nor my worldly possessions... GOD.
In short, u know wat ? U r tilthing because u r sort of investing the money and want something bigger back in return ? Might as well give money and ask for 4D number right ?then why r there christians dying of hunger and suffer poverty ?
because it says in the bible, my people suffer from lack of knowledge... which is the lack of kowledge of how God's kingdom is supposed to operate, it is all in the bible, you just have to read it and be open to God's leading... -
I will be Very Very careful not to put forth such claims. No one religion is more Right than the other. All religion serves the same purpose of the attempt to impart certain moral values in the people.Originally posted by breytonhartge:And why do all of us believe in Jesus, because He is the only one that promises us salvation and guarantees us a place in HEAVEN, can buddah or saibaba or any of the other religions give you that sort of guarantee?
That does not mean that atheists are immoral either.
It is such beliefs that make this world such an unbearable place. Not the religion itself. I'm atheist, but I respect Jesus, not as the Son of God, but as one person who created spread the message that man should be kind to one another.
But then, maybe he forgot to say that "people should be tolerant with another person's belief." Otherwise, we will have less wars in the world. -
to earthling73,
I will be Very Very careful not to put forth such claims. No one religion is more Right than the other. All religion serves the same purpose of the attempt to impart certain moral values in the people.
I did not say that atheists are immoral and I did not say that I did not tolerate your belief, what do so many non-believers assume that just becaus we believers state a know fact to us that we do not respect anothers belief? My best friend of 25 years plus is an atheist... and did I ever say I disrespected your view? I am only stating a fact, if you read the bible and go through all the teachings of the other "religions", Jesus is the only one who has made the statement that we will have a place in Heaven. No one else does.
That does not mean that atheists are immoral either.
It is such beliefs that make this world such an unbearable place. Not the religion itself. I'm atheist, but I respect Jesus, not as the Son of God, but as one person who created spread the message that man should be kind to one another.
But then, maybe he forgot to say that "people should be tolerant with another person's belief." Otherwise, we will have less wars in the world.
I respect your belief, just as much as I respect your right to think what you will and say what you will, so don't judge me or disrespect my view on what I know to be true, I have a voice and I can speak what I believe, that does not mean that I think you are my inferior, all men were created equal...
wars are started not because of belief or religion, that is just an excuse, wars are started because of the beastly nature of the human soul that has been corrupted by sin... that is why we all need redemption. Outside of Jesus, God does not see us as righteous. My belief so I ask you to respect that.
Your said that no religion is better than another... That is also why I am so adamant that Christianity is not a religion, and why i say it is a personal relationship with God your creator through the redeeming Grace of Jesus who died to take your sins. It is true no religion (which implies man made) is better than another, only Jesus gives you a guarantee... religion gives you a moral code to live by, Jesus tells you that your sins are forgiven, forever. Do you want to trust that your good works will see you into Heaven? -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
yah.. y drag Buddha into the picture then..
to earthling73,
I did not say that atheists are immoral and I did not say that I did not tolerate your belief, what do so many non-believers assume that just becaus we believers state a know fact to us that we do not respect anothers belief? My best friend of 25 years plus is an atheist... and did I ever say I disrespected your view? [b]I am only stating a fact, if you read the bible and go through all the teachings of the other "religions", Jesus is the only one who has made the statement that we will have a place in Heaven. No one else does.
I respect your belief, just as much as I respect your right to think what you will and say what you will, so don't judge me or disrespect my view on what I know to be true, I have a voice and I can speak what I believe, that does not mean that I think you are my inferior, all men were created equal...
wars are started not because of belief or religion, that is just an excuse, wars are started because of the beastly nature of the human soul that has been corrupted by sin... that is why we all need redemption. Outside of Jesus, God does not see us as righteous. My belief so I ask you to respect that.
Your said that no religion is better than another... That is also why I am so adamant that Christianity is not a religion, and why i say it is a personal relationship with God your creator through the redeeming Grace of Jesus who died to take your sins. It is true no religion (which implies man made) is better than another, only Jesus gives you a guarantee... religion gives you a moral code to live by, Jesus tells you that your sins are forgiven, forever. Do you want to trust that your good works will see you into Heaven? [/b] -
To breytonhartge:
Do you believe in reincarnation? -
actually no... you only have one shot... that is it. I will not be coming back I am going to Heaven.
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like I said earthling73, it is my opinion, just as you have yours about religion, I have mine, I have respected you and have not put you down in anyway... I am just stating what I know to be true.
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actually earthling73, why do you care so much since you are an atheist? You have no religion so why are you so offended with me?
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:actually no... you only have one shot... that is it. I will not be coming back I am going to Heaven.
OK...I mean no disrespect...but do you seriously believe everything the bible says? -
The ten commandments say Thou shall not steal. Make your own judgement.Originally posted by Ito_^:Hey, since this topic is so hot, I wanna ask Christians.
What is your take on piracy? Both online (BT, Kazaa) and offline. -
Actually, yes. It is a sin to cheat on parking. Jesus said give to Caesar what belongs to Him, and give to God what belongs to him.Originally posted by stellazio:a pastor once said,if u do not pay ur parking fees,u are sinning.becuz god set authorities upon you all and if u defy its as good as sinning.haa i found it funny.