Things you want to know about Christianity
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The RC trusts God to trust the Vatican.Originally posted by fandango:Nonetheless, the Vatican, the system, is something one ought to see the other side behind the curtains.
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You made a good point here.Originally posted by Icemoon:I think a good way to put it is this - whether they go heaven is up to the grace of God.
So all in all, only born again believers will be in heaven. But whether a person will become a born again, its only by the grace of God. -
irresistable grace .... *smirks*Originally posted by fandango:So all in all, only born again believers will be in heaven. But whether a person will become a born again, its only by the grace of God. -
I am asking about the 10 commandments where u can only believe in one god or keeping the sabbath day holy. How do u encapsulate tat into loving your neighbour ? Personally i see nothing about loving neighbours to keeping the sabbath day holy
I brought up the 10 commandments because you made a refrence to the commandment of "Believing only in 1 God". This commandment was for Israel who God revealed Himself to. For Christians the same would apply.
The NT's commandment of loving one's neighbour encapsulates the OT in the sense, that if you follow the 10 commandments you are follwing Jesus's commandment to love one's neighbour and vice-versa. Take for example from the 10 commandment:
not to bear false witness against your neighbour.
By not bearing false witness you love your neighbour.I highlighted the line that says "wicked men among you". These wicked men are from the tribes of Israel, therefore they have recived the commandment not to worship any God except the Lord Himself and yet they go against it. It is not so much about non-believers as it is about people to God revealed Himself to going against Him.
Tat is strange, I thought the laws apply to all christians. If they see another with a different religion and they try to persuade him to join another religion, tis christian should kill tat fellow and burn all his possessions. In tat case when jesus appear to the jews, they really r right to kill him since he is really telling of a completely different version of god.
then how about tis verse
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
so we forsake tis verse from jesus himself ?I think a good way to put it is this - whether they go heaven is up to the grace of God.
Politically correct answer, but putting it bluntly... u don't know. From another angle, u just do not want to say out wat is more believable to u because it is problematic -
err Jesus didnt only say "Love your neighbor". In the parable of the Good Samaritan, a teacher of the law asked Jesus for what God wanted of us in order to be born into eternal life. The man said "`You must love the Lord your God with all your heart. Love him with all your soul. Love him with all your power, and love him with all your mind. And you must love your neighbour as you love yourself.'" but was puzzled who was his neighbor. Our neighbors, in the Christian context, are all of mankind. You even. Even Saddam Hussien, Osama etc. its a tough choice but note in Jesus parable, He deliberately used the context of a Samaritan helping a Jew (?) for during that time there were *lots* of bad blood between these two.
I am asking about the 10 commandments where u can only believe in one god or keeping the sabbath day holy. How do u encapsulate tat into loving your neighbour ? Personally i see nothing about loving neighbours to keeping the sabbath day holy
to sum up,
" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV)
we can never take God's word for granted and therefore should not quote them piecemeal. always consider the context of the situation.
thanks and god bless! -
gosh. thats too extreme. the thoughts you have about killing people, burning all their possessions... thats too extreme. Shit happens when we try to play God. Don't you feel that you are judging other people by over generalising them as immoral, filthy, pagans? First and foremost, Jesus taught us NEVER to judge,
Tat is strange, I thought the laws apply to all christians. If they see another with a different religion and they try to persuade him to join another religion, tis christian should kill tat fellow and burn all his possessions. In tat case when jesus appear to the jews, they really r right to kill him since he is really telling of a completely different version of god.
then how about tis verse
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
so we forsake tis verse from jesus himself ?
The Jews might be justified when they wanted to kill Jesus to preserve the sancity of God's name. But did they? I tell you, those Jewish priests were overly concerned with their high position and society... and too terrified to consider the prospect that God is now opening up and becoming a free for all. The Jewish people simply acted out of blatant selfishness and arrogance. Various examples i can cite include the blissful ignorance of the poor and needy while living in ivory towers, trying to entrap Jesus, denouncing a man of true faith and SIGNS/MIRACLES which they are unable to duplicate. What Jesus felt was those Jewish elders were too concerned about tradition rather than the reason/heart behind it or to put it succintly, the right thing to do.
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
Did it says that coming to the Father means entering Heaven and basking there? Jesus had warned us on several occassions that when we come before the Father Himself, we will be weighed. I believe in Purgatory despite being a Methodist. There will be a time when we have to atone for our venial sins (not mortal meaning sins that do not go against the concept of pro-life)
concerning Deutronomy, i suggest taking the Bible in chronological order... as in New Testament after the Old. just IMHO... because i feel that God has softened substantially after He sent His only begotten Son for us to die for our sins. He would never like to see us destroy ourselves but help ourselves be what we truly are meant to be. And when Jesus was on Earth, he did not destroy anyone! Even the false prophets who denounced His divine powers as of Satan's were rebuked. That was the very most Jesus did.
again, Jesus said these very words,
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
because he was speaking to a crowd gathering around him. Would you think people in the crowd would dismiss him as a raving lunatic if He were to say things like "But those people who havent heard of me - this is what will happen to them". Jesus is always to the point. And He did have the uncanny ability to communicate. I think it would be irrelevant to Him to include people not in his listening audience. It was in His priority to save people who saw, talked, ate, interacted with Him.
When Jesus was crucified, and suffered and finally died... During Pentecost, if im not wrong, He appeared before all His disciples and urged them to go forth and spread the word. It brought the wave of the Christianity we know of today... our knowledge of our salvation has been brought to us by the missionaries. and the missionaries did not just stay in one capital and just sent out pigeons, telegrams, tv broadcasts... but instead "WENT FORTH" and "SPREAD THE GOSPEL" for we now were guided by the Holy Spirit.
hope these helps, SIS.
god bless and have a great day! -
i do.in the end u believe something can be created out of nothing. Why not believe in science ?
what i meant was that maybe science is very different in God's world compared to ours..................... -
it is not right to compare OT and NT. in order to understand the scriptures one has to many factors. (time, people involved, situation, culture etc) we can only understand what is written literally.Originally posted by stupidissmart:evolution. Why ?
plo30360 believes tat non-believer also go to heaven. So wat does eng chin, fandango and icemoon believe ?
in order to understand the scriptures it is better to join the cell groups organised by the church. -
Belief in God is not the mere acknowledgement of GodÂ’s existence. It is to follow the commandments of God and the commandments of God, to put it simply, is to love as Jesus said.
I am asking about the 10 commandments where u can only believe in one god or keeping the sabbath day holy. How do u encapsulate tat into loving your neighbour ? Personally i see nothing about loving neighbours to keeping the sabbath day holy
I think you have misunderstood what I stated. So let us take a look at it again:
Tat is strange, I thought the laws apply to all christians. If they see another with a different religion and they try to persuade him to join another religion, tis christian should kill tat fellow and burn all his possessions. In tat case when jesus appear to the jews, they really r right to kill him since he is really telling of a completely different version of god.
“If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you”
This passage first and foremost talks about a group from the Israelites to whom God revealed himself to going against him. And on top of breaking a commandment made known to them about not worshiping false gods, they lead other Israelites to do the same.
For Christians, the same would apply. Any baptised Christian knowing this commandment of God and breaking it does the same thing as what the Israelites did. So yes it applies to Christians as well.
What does it mean to follow this way and truth of Jesus? It comes back to obeying JesusÂ’ commandment to love.
then how about tis verse
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).
so we forsake tis verse from jesus himself ? -
I chose not to post this ealier but I want to ask why is it that non-Catholic Christians keep claiming these things:
1.
If you borthered to do research you would find that this is not true.
Indeed, you can see the differences in the explanantion of SingaporeMacross as compared to the others in this thread. The teaching of the Catholic is really not of the Bible
2.
From previous topics it seems all non-Catholic Christians keep trying to show how the Catholic church is the whore of Bablyon.
think majority of fundamental christians are holding their breath on the appointment of the next pope because he may be the false prohphet of the Antichrist which will bring the religions of the world together. The Harlot riding the Beast is almost clear now.
3.
Non-Catholic Christians keep claiming that Catholics are not Christians.
Majority of people think Christianity and Roman Catholism are the same. So just trying to show that they are different.
4. The belief that the Catholic church is only made up of the Roman Catholics. -
allow me to explainOriginally posted by plo30360:I chose not to post this ealier but I want to ask why is it that non-Catholic Christians keep claiming these things:
1.
Non-Catholic Christians keep claiming that Catholics are not Christians.
4. The belief that the Catholic church is only made up of the Roman Catholics.
it all starts with judaism, the religion of the Jews. Jews believe in the 5 books of moses.(1st 5 chapters of the christian Bible) the muslim appeared 500 yrs after christianity. they believe in the 5 books of moses too. They believe in Muhammed, not Jesus. Christians are protestants. Protestant started in Germany, founder is Martin Luther. They do not agree that Mary is 'important' among many other things. RC Bible and christian Bible is different. why?
all the books (chapters) of the Bible are from people who have spoken to GOD. there are many more than what we see in all the Bibles combined. The head of churches met to select the books and compiled what you see now in the Bible. Thus the difference!! -
The difference is Judaism and Muslim DO NOT acknowledge Jesus' personage as the Son of God.Originally posted by dragg:allow me to explain
it all starts with judaism, the religion of the Jews. Jews believe in the 5 books of moses.(1st 5 chapters of the christian Bible) the muslim appeared 500 yrs after christianity. they believe in the 5 books of moses too. They believe in Muhammed, not Jesus. Christians are protestants. Protestant started in Germany, founder is Martin Luther. They do not agree that Mary is 'important' among many other things. RC Bible and christian Bible is different. why?
all the books (chapters) of the Bible are from people who have spoken to GOD. there are many more than what we see in all the Bibles combined. The head of churches met to select the books and compiled what you see now in the Bible. Thus the difference!!
Roman Catholics on the other hand sees and recognizes Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
The fact that there are some practices that does not agree with mainstream Protestants does not mean that within Protestant churches are are no theological differences.
Martin Luther rebelled against the Papal indulgences more than theological issues.
Sure there are things that are foreign to Protestant churches, so what! Some things change, others don't. Some emphasis on one thing, others emphasis prefer the next issue.
I don't even want to start on things inside the Protestant church (which is not even harmonic in itself) that are different church to church and different to the epistolic teachings of Paul.
So don't start calling RCs as Non-Christians..... we are not too hot ourself. -
woah, just saw this pop out on top 50
just want to ask
is it only recently the Protestants call themselves Christians and RC Catholics?
Coz i used to think its Catholics and Protestants...
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just out of curiosity, are a RC or christian?Originally posted by Chin Eng:The difference is Judaism and Muslim DO NOT acknowledge Jesus' personage as the Son of God.
Roman Catholics on the other hand sees and recognizes Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
The fact that there are some practices that does not agree with mainstream Protestants does not mean that within Protestant churches are are no theological differences.
Martin Luther rebelled against the Papal indulgences more than theological issues.
Sure there are things that are foreign to Protestant churches, so what! Some things change, others don't. Some emphasis on one thing, others emphasis prefer the next issue.
I don't even want to start on things inside the Protestant church (which is not even harmonic in itself) that are different church to church and different to the epistolic teachings of Paul.
So don't start calling RCs as Non-Christians..... we are not too hot ourself.
next, i certainly did not say or hinted that RCs are not christians and vice versea. only try to explain how the different religions came about. though it does not mean i dont have an idea about it. -
Consider these:Originally posted by plo30360:I chose not to post this ealier but I want to ask why is it that non-Catholic Christians keep claiming these things:
1.quote:
Indeed, you can see the differences in the explanantion of SingaporeMacross as compared to the others in this thread. The teaching of the Catholic is really not of the Bible.
if you borthered to do research you would find that this is not true
1. Purgatury
2. Office of Pope
3. Papal Infallibility
4. Mary as Co-mediatric
5. Transubstiantiation
6. Confession to Priest
7. Monestry and Nunnery
8. Monks and Nuns
9. Justification by Works.
10. Salvation by Works.
and the list goes on. -
RC has always been catholics. protestants has always been christiansOriginally posted by laurence82:woah, just saw this pop out on top 50
just want to ask
is it only recently the Protestants call themselves Christians and RC Catholics?
Coz i used to think its Catholics and Protestants... -
Infact it's the other way round. It is only recently that Roman Catholics dropped "Roman". So they started calling themselves Catholics. Even more recently, they decided to begin labelling themselves Catholics and Christians interchangeably.Originally posted by laurence82:woah, just saw this pop out on top 50
just want to ask
is it only recently the Protestants call themselves Christians and RC Catholics?
Coz i used to think its Catholics and Protestants... -
Read the context of Luke 6:37-49, dont take verse 37 literally.Originally posted by ntu slacker:gosh. thats too extreme. the thoughts you have about killing people, burning all their possessions... thats too extreme. Shit happens when we try to play God. Don't you feel that you are judging other people by over generalising them as immoral, filthy, pagans? First and foremost, Jesus taught us NEVER to judge, -
Catholics are Christians. It is like any Anglican saying he is Christian but belongs to the Anglican Church.
RC has always been catholics. protestants has always been christians
It is not recently that Catholics have considered themselves Christian. It is non-Catholic Christians who think in such a way. And as for dropping the "Roman",
Infact it's the other way round. It is only recently that Roman Catholics dropped "Roman". So they started calling themselves Catholics. Even more recently, they decided to begin labelling themselves Catholics and Christians interchangeably.
it is not dropped. Roman Catholics refers to the Latin Rites. The Catholic church also comprises of 21-22 churchs(Eastern Rites) with which are in full communion with the Catholic Church hence, Catholic refers to all these.
Purgatory though not mentioned in name is mentioned in the Bible as a place where sins will be purged.
Consider these:
1. Purgatury
2. Office of Pope
3. Papal Infallibility
4. Mary as Co-mediatric
5. Transubstiantiation
6. Confession to Priest
7. Monestry and Nunnery
8. Monks and Nuns
9. Justification by Works.
10. Salvation by Works.
and the list goes on.
In a likewise manner all those things on your list with the exception of the last 2, are based on Scripture.
Justification by works and Salavation by works is not what the Catholic church teachs.
First of all Catholics belive that faith is the prequiste for salvation. [b]These works are a result of that faith.You will find this in the Bible especially in St. Paul's letters.
[/b] And of course no matter how many good works one does, it is only by the grace of God he is saved.
And while we are at it, can you tell me where in the Bible does it say that faith alone justifies? -
Originally posted by plo30360:
Purgatory though not mentioned in name is mentioned in the Bible as a place where sins will be purged.
In a likewise manner all those things on your list with the exception of the last 2, are based on Scripture.
[b]Justification by works and Salavation by works is not what the Catholic church teachs.
First of all Catholics belive that faith is the prequiste for salvation. [b]These works are a result of that faith.You will find this in the Bible especially in St. Paul's letters.
[/b] And of course no matter how many good works one does, it is only by the grace of God he is saved.
And while we are at it, can you tell me where in the Bible does it say that faith alone justifies?
this is going nowhere. judaism, muslim, RC and christians all believe in the same GOD. only those who believe in christ are christians. right?
[/b] -
I agree with you dragg but I'm getting tierd of Christian-fundis telling me that Catholics are not Christians, that Catholic teachings are not based on the Bible, that the Catholic church is the whore of Bablyon...
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like i explained earlier catholics and christians dont share the same bible. basically they believe in the same GOD and Jesus. strictly speaking catholics can be called christians but christians are definitely not catholics. if not why protest and breakaway.Originally posted by plo30360:I agree with you dragg but I'm getting tierd of Christian-fundis telling me that Catholics are not Christians, that Catholic teachings are not based on the Bible, that the Catholic church is the whore of Bablyon... -
err dun get what ya mean... perhaps could you explain to me what your point is?Originally posted by fandango:Read the context of Luke 6:37-49, dont take verse 37 literally.
thanks ah
sorry cos im a lil slow upstairs -
err Jesus didnt only say "Love your neighbor". In the parable of the Good Samaritan, a teacher of the law asked Jesus for what God wanted of us in order to be born into eternal life. The man said "`You must love the Lord your God with all your heart. Love him with all your soul. Love him with all your power, and love him with all your mind. And you must love your neighbour as you love yourself.'" but was puzzled who was his neighbor. Our neighbors, in the Christian context, are all of mankind. You even. Even Saddam Hussien, Osama etc. its a tough choice but note in Jesus parable, He deliberately used the context of a Samaritan helping a Jew (?) for during that time there were *lots* of bad blood between these two.
do u show love to your neighbour when he send people to hell ? Probably all muslim, taoist hindis goes to hell if christianity is right. Tat isn't very loving if u ask me. U show me tis parable for wat
to sum up,
if u ask me, u just see only the verses which u agree and totally ignore the other parts of the bible. Frankly if u read the quran, hindu, buddhist scripture and consider only the things tat made sense to u, they too will sound good. If u want u can probably hear many touching stories tat speaks of being fillial etc if u read these stories as well.
" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV)
we can never take God's word for granted and therefore should not quote them piecemeal. always consider the context of the situation.
thanks and god bless!gosh. thats too extreme. the thoughts you have about killing people, burning all their possessions... thats too extreme. Shit happens when we try to play God. Don't you feel that you are judging other people by over generalising them as immoral, filthy, pagans? First and foremost, Jesus taught us NEVER to judge,
Tat is extreme right ? U don't have to blame me for it, it is written in the bible as such. I didn't write tat verse down. U ask people not to judge, but the law clearly ask people to judge people. So how can one keep both verses true at the same time ?The Jews might be justified when they wanted to kill Jesus to preserve the sancity of God's name. But did they? I tell you, those Jewish priests were overly concerned with their high position and society... and too terrified to consider the prospect that God is now opening up and becoming a free for all. The Jewish people simply acted out of blatant selfishness and arrogance. Various examples i can cite include the blissful ignorance of the poor and needy while living in ivory towers, trying to entrap Jesus, denouncing a man of true faith and SIGNS/MIRACLES which they are unable to duplicate. What Jesus felt was those Jewish elders were too concerned about tradition rather than the reason/heart behind it or to put it succintly, the right thing to do.
if u just read the OT, they already provided ample laws to kill jesus. They tell them to kill off any person who claim they r prophets and lead the people to other religion, which jesus truly does. U say they r selfish etc, tat is because u do not choose to see the picture from the other side of the story. Why don't u answer according to the OT at tat time, does the priests have the right to kill jesus ?Did it says that coming to the Father means entering Heaven and basking there? Jesus had warned us on several occassions that when we come before the Father Himself, we will be weighed. I believe in Purgatory despite being a Methodist. There will be a time when we have to atone for our venial sins (not mortal meaning sins that do not go against the concept of pro-life)
why not ? U mean the person who cannot go to his "father" can stay in heaven with him ?concerning Deutronomy, i suggest taking the Bible in chronological order... as in New Testament after the Old. just IMHO... because i feel that God has softened substantially after He sent His only begotten Son for us to die for our sins. He would never like to see us destroy ourselves but help ourselves be what we truly are meant to be. And when Jesus was on Earth, he did not destroy anyone! Even the false prophets who denounced His divine powers as of Satan's were rebuked. That was the very most Jesus did.
Isn't god perfect and don't change with time ? So the other people who had lived in the harsh laws of OT victims ? -
because he was speaking to a crowd gathering around him. Would you think people in the crowd would dismiss him as a raving lunatic if He were to say things like "But those people who havent heard of me - this is what will happen to them". Jesus is always to the point. And He did have the uncanny ability to communicate. I think it would be irrelevant to Him to include people not in his listening audience. It was in His priority to save people who saw, talked, ate, interacted with Him.
U can omit facts but u can't state something which is wrong. If everyone can be saved regardless of whether he believe in him or not, he shouldn't tell people tat only people who believe in him can be saved. Isn't tat lying ?When Jesus was crucified, and suffered and finally died... During Pentecost, if im not wrong, He appeared before all His disciples and urged them to go forth and spread the word. It brought the wave of the Christianity we know of today... our knowledge of our salvation has been brought to us by the missionaries. and the missionaries did not just stay in one capital and just sent out pigeons, telegrams, tv broadcasts... but instead "WENT FORTH" and "SPREAD THE GOSPEL" for we now were guided by the Holy Spirit.
And the point is ?what i meant was that maybe science is very different in God's world compared to ours.....................
Okie, where do u get tat info ? Why do u come to tis conclusion ?it is not right to compare OT and NT. in order to understand the scriptures one has to many factors. (time, people involved, situation, culture etc) we can only understand what is written literally.
OT is suppose to be as good as the NT. Christian cannot abandon the OT, even jesus say it so. The words in the scripture was meant to lat all time. It shouldn't be one tat need revision and changes over time.in order to understand the scriptures it is better to join the cell groups organised by the church.
And let them brainwash me ?Belief in God is not the mere acknowledgement of GodÂ’s existence. It is to follow the commandments of God and the commandments of God, to put it simply, is to love as Jesus said.
u r not answering the question. How does keeping the sabbath day holy related to loving your neighbour. If we have to follow the commandments of god, then clearly one, who does not believe in him nor do any acts toward him is not loving jesusThis passage first and foremost talks about a group from the Israelites to whom God revealed himself to going against him. And on top of breaking a commandment made known to them about not worshiping false gods, they lead other Israelites to do the same.
If a person who truly believe in christian god, he will not go around and tell other to believe in other god. BTW u forgot abotu the second part
you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt
Isn't tat an indication tat these people probably live in other tribes and villages ? Otherwise how r u gonna kill everyone if u r part of tat town ? It is about treating people from other faith.For Christians, the same would apply. Any baptised Christian knowing this commandment of God and breaking it does the same thing as what the Israelites did. So yes it applies to Christians as well.
so does a baptise christian allow to change faith. If he decide to be a buddhist later and tell people to convert to buddhist, u should kill him and burn his possessions ?What does it mean to follow this way and truth of Jesus? It comes back to obeying JesusÂ’ commandment to love.
Jesus has said a lot of things, and many things r about how to treat god as well. The way and truth of jesus also includes your obedience to god as well. So it is still true tat non-believers go to hell since u can't obey something tat don't exists to them
more later