Why are there so many demoninations?
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Besides this one, there is also the "Harry Potter" thread posted by 6white_pawn9 in this forum and a number of posts by the same person on Islamic issues.Originally posted by stupidissmart:u know why ? because I believe it is in chit chat and the threads get outdated substantially. However there is one from me and seed on muslim issues.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=103584&page=2 -
The Pope, if he were to say to today abortion was all right, he would no longer teach according to scripture, his teachings would then lack moral authority and Catholics would the be called upon to challenge that teaching(abortion).
u forgot tat catholic is an organisation. THe leaders of the organisation interprete the teachings and teach people how to interact with the world. The pope is the leader of the organisation. He represent catholic. His stand and watsoever is the stand of catholic etc. Why don't u say if there is anything wrong with tis statement ? Does the pope represent the catholic stand ? If u say he does not represent catholic, then u can just forget about going to church or going to hear his teachings or stop abortion etc since he is nothing.
For example, the Geroge Bush argument, if today Mr. Bush were to say he belives in dictatorship, he no longer represents the ideals of the American people.
Don't drag another "God does not love argument into this". Regarding the OT's style of writing, it can be said some of the writers of OT attributed things not even done by God to Him. But anyway, I'm not going into that into this discussion.
And about teaching people how to love, I ask... wat is an example of god loving the people ? I can state many example of god askign men to go to wars with each other. It does justify the pope stand at tat time to start a holy war
Since you lumped all Christian faults together, I pointed out faults against Christians in the collective sense as well.
in 639, he attacked persians tat occupied jerusalem then. He did not kill of the people of other faith, in fact he even sought the help of jews in fighting the persians. If u say thousands died, certainly it had nothing to do with catholic because it is not a catholic city ? If u say it attacked the churches and burn them, why don't u show me a site where such incidents occurred ? Because frankly I did a search online and they only mentioned the important events then, which is maninly the attack and not about chuches being burnt etc. Can u show me an online version where it is easily assessible ? Anyway is the guy writing tis anti-muslim ? if it is then we better find more credible sources
And the guy cannot be anti-Muslim beacause he is Muslim(Ibn Warraq).
Which is why in one of my earlier posts, I said: "Regarless of the political reasons..."
However the pope do nto intend to just defend the Byzantine Empire but intended to invade till jerusalem. It is a power struggle.
We know the political reasons why the Pope wanted to help out. Wars are never caused by religion. It is people who twist religion to suit thier needs.
If religion was not the excuse to start wars, man would find another excuse like nationalism(WW2) and twist as convinient. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Okie, I will try to be more nicer in future.
Thank you very much.... you don't know how much this means to me....
I will check on the link soon.
Yup, I remember this one.... white_pawn and I had a very long series of msgs. It was very interesting and educational in content. That chat was very, very good for the fact that it was a very amicable exchange of ideas between two individual of opposing faith, one being a Christian and the other a Muslim. Pawn, if you are still in the forum.... take care... bro...Originally posted by iveco:Besides this one, there is also the "Harry Potter" thread posted by 6white_pawn9 in this forum and a number of posts by the same person on Islamic issues.
My advice to EH forumites (including myself), let's make this a better place to come to. By all means have different opinions, but let's be civil about it....
This reminds of one of Stephen Covey's 7 Habits for Effective People: Seek first to understand before seeking to be understood. -
The Pope, if he were to say to today abortion was all right, he would no longer teach according to scripture, his teachings would then lack moral authority and Catholics would the be called upon to challenge that teaching(abortion).
The thing is, the pope then was not challenged for his statement on launching a crusade. In fact later on several more pope too started more crusades as well. He was not challenged. He was not corrected. The followers follow his orders. It is more like the case where George Bush started a war on Iraq and Americans voted him for another term. The American do want this war to happen
For example, the Geroge Bush argument, if today Mr. Bush were to say he belives in dictatorship, he no longer represents the ideals of the American people.Don't drag another "God does not love argument into this". Regarding the OT's style of writing, it can be said some of the writers of OT attributed things not even done by God to Him. But anyway, I'm not going into that into this discussion.
Fine. i do not want to eitherSince you lumped all Christian faults together, I pointed out faults against Christians in the collective sense as well.
If I am not wrong, he is really anti-muslim... He was given a muslim name at birth from his parents but it doesn't meant he was a pious muslim. There are people with christian names such as "christian" or "Peter " etc but they can be of another faith altogether or even anti-christian
And the guy cannot be anti-Muslim beacause he is Muslim(Ibn Warraq).Which is why in one of my earlier posts, I said: "Regarless of the political reasons..."
It is caused by religion who views another group of people of another religion as enemies. They segregate people into opposing group while grouping people of similar religion into comrades for fighting. If there was no such things as catholic, there will not be things such as crusades. So u think all the popes that lived during that period of time r all wrong ? So u believe tat the crusaders tat fought r all uncatholic as well ?
We know the political reasons why the Pope wanted to help out. Wars are never caused by religion. It is people who twist religion to suit thier needs.If religion was not the excuse to start wars, man would find another excuse like nationalism(WW2) and twist as convinient.
We can only say religion is not the ONLY excuse for a war, but it is a reason why some wars and violence was created. Just because WW2 is started off because of nationalism doesn't means crusades is not started off because of religion. -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq
www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt/stories/s386913.htm
As far as I can tell, Ibn Warraq is not even his real name.
So there is not telling who he really is.... even if he is Muslim, he is definitely not the traditional type...Originally posted by stupidissmart:We can only say religion is not the ONLY excuse for a war, but it is a reason why some wars and violence was created. Just because WW2 is started off because of nationalism doesn't means crusades is not started off because of religion. This I have to agree with you.... in fact, I think religion is an extremely GOOD excuse to go fight somebody.... within the church community, disagreement on theology can even lead to churches splitting with one half of a congregation following one pastor.
So having said that.... let's not start a war here, there is enough prove in EH to support the theory that religion CAN and WILL start a war.... so guys... let's cool it.... -
Wow I never know Ibn Warraq is so famous
